Astute
Well-Known Member
Even Labour MP's couldn't believe the last election result
Video reveals moment anti-Corbyn Labour MPs realised he'd done better than they predicted
So how much faith do the Labour MP's have in those at the top?
Even Labour MP's couldn't believe the last election resultWe will have to respectfully disagree. IMO if you put up the top 6/7 positions most cases Labour counterparts are the better choices.
Absolute bullshit. I have had a go at all of them.
One side not being good enough doesn't mean the other side are good enough. I don't trust any of them.
Go on then. Find where I have praised the Tories. Either that or admit you are bullshitting.
I don't trust May. She is a remainer leading the leavers. She is doing what she doesn't want to do.
Should we be taking big gambles with our futures?
I criticise both parties. Criticising the Tories goes unnoticed. Criticising Labour seems to be a sin.I didn't say you praise the tories. I said you're reluctant to criticise them and try and deflect when other people do. I gave you an example.
I point out the discrepancies on those that bang the remain drum constantly. I point out what is wrong with the way the EU is run as some would like you to believe all is OK. And these same people ignore whenever I say good about the EU. Although I admit that it isn't a lot these days as it is now down to negotiations which are not going the way which are best fir the people of the EU. It is mainly about egos.You obviously think so, that's why you bang the drum for Brexit on a daily basis.
I point out the discrepancies on those that bang the remain drum constantly. I point out what is wrong with the way the EU is run as some would like you to believe all is OK. And these same people ignore whenever I say good about the EU. Although I admit that it isn't a lot these days as it is now down to negotiations which are not going the way which are best fir the people of the EU. It is mainly about egos.
And that is my point.but to me all that is irrelevant. We voted leave so we need to leave in a way that gives us the best prospects going forward. At the moment I am very sceptical due to the politicians we have leading us out who I think, and there is daily evidence to back this up, are next to useless. I can't believe people aren't seeing it.
In the last two or 3 days the Foreign secretary has admitted he didn't understand the Good Friday agreement, (the latest in a long succession of blunders), and an agency who David Davis stated would not leave the UK are on their bike.
These are the things people should be concerned with.
And that is my point.
You and a few others are always looking for discrepancies that I have come out with. But you never find any. But when I point out the discrepancies from those looking for them from me they are irrelevant. I point out the discrepancies from the leave lot. Not a problem. But when I point out the discrepancies from the remain lot they are irrelevant. When I point out the discrepancies from the Tory manifesto there isn't a problem. But when I point out the discrepancies from the Labour manifesto it is irrelevant.
Then I get called biased when I am one of the rare ones having a go at all sides.
Neither the Tories or Labour are fit to govern as they presently stand. That is my opinion. And nobody has said anything to make me change my mind. And the opposition is non existent.
Even Labour MP's couldn't believe the last election result
Video reveals moment anti-Corbyn Labour MPs realised he'd done better than they predicted
So how much faith do the Labour MP's have in those at the top?
And that is my point.
You and a few others are always looking for discrepancies that I have come out with. But you never find any. But when I point out the discrepancies from those looking for them from me they are irrelevant. I point out the discrepancies from the leave lot. Not a problem. But when I point out the discrepancies from the remain lot they are irrelevant. When I point out the discrepancies from the Tory manifesto there isn't a problem. But when I point out the discrepancies from the Labour manifesto it is irrelevant.
Then I get called biased when I am one of the rare ones having a go at all sides.
Neither the Tories or Labour are fit to govern as they presently stand. That is my opinion. And nobody has said anything to make me change my mind. And the opposition is non existent.
It is easy to find bad leave and remain news. Everyone has their own opinion. So half is good and half is bad for both. Good news is easy to find. But I ignore most of it. Bad news is easy to find. But I ignore most of it.but remain is irrelevant. We voted leave so have to make the best of it. I don't see the point in going on about remain voters, (of which you say you are one), because that isn't the course we have chosen.
You say you look at both sides but when was the last time you posted highlighting a fuck up by one of the Brexit team? And it's not difficult because they are frequent.
I try to look for good Brexit news stories, (I've actually posted one of the few links to one), they are hard to find.
The worrying thing is, it was always easy to find negative Brexit stories in the like of the Independent but now you can increasingly find them in the right wing press.
To me it was a chance lost. Labour was up against a Tory party that can't agree on anything. They offered nothing new to improve things. A decent Labour party would have won the last election. And Labour will win the next one if they sort things out. They have the people to do it. But if things stay the same so will the next result.That was a sweet moment.
It is easy to find bad leave and remain news. Everyone has their own opinion. So half is good and half is bad for both. Good news is easy to find. But I ignore most of it. Bad news is easy to find. But I ignore most of it.
Just like on here. If you believed some if it you would think that we are going to become a third world country.
And there you go again. One side is irrelevant. No it isn't. The PM was a part of it. So were others leading us out of the EU. This is where I don't get your stance. You say I don't attack certain people enough. But you defend these same people on what was said before the vote. You say it is irrelevant when it isn't.
Haven't watched the program yet but seen a couple of clips. Highlights the problem really. Corbyn isn't just battling the Conservatives he's battling the PLP. Huge support from the Labour membership as seen from the leadership votes but the PLP constantly working against him.Even Labour MP's couldn't believe the last election result
Haven't watched the program yet but seen a couple of clips. Highlights the problem really. Corbyn isn't just battling the Conservatives he's battling the PLP. Huge support from the Labour membership as seen from the leadership votes but the PLP constantly working against him.
Ideally I'd have like to see them split off and join with the more centrist Conservatives and give a decent 3 party system with a genuine choice of left, right or centre. Of course a lot of those involved are career MPs who wouldn't do something that drastic for fear of losing their nice salary.
Who said it would make a difference to the vote now? What it does say is who should be believed. Hardly anyone at the front of the debate was truthful. Yet some only want to go on about the lies from one side.so if you could categorically prove where the remain campaign was flawed, what difference would it make now?
And you certainly can't make a case for it being more relevant than the course the Brexit negotiations are taking but you say very little about the almost daily fuck ups are politicians are making.
One thing that makes me laugh is Corbyn wants out of the EU. But those who want to stay in the EU defend him. May wants to stay in the EU. But those who also want to stay in the EU do nothing but attack her.Haven't watched the program yet but seen a couple of clips. Highlights the problem really. Corbyn isn't just battling the Conservatives he's battling the PLP. Huge support from the Labour membership as seen from the leadership votes but the PLP constantly working against him.
Ideally I'd have like to see them split off and join with the more centrist Conservatives and give a decent 3 party system with a genuine choice of left, right or centre. Of course a lot of those involved are career MPs who wouldn't do something that drastic for fear of losing their nice salary.
So you agree with me then?that last sentence pretty much sums up the problems with British politics and is endemic across the political spectrum.
Problem for Corbyn is if he takes a remain stance he'll be attacked for ignoring the electorate. If he says leaves he's attacked by those on the labour side who want to remain.One thing that makes me laugh is Corbyn wants out of the EU. But those who want to stay in the EU defend him. May wants to stay in the EU. But those who also want to stay in the EU do nothing but attack her.
So you agree with me then?
To me it was a chance lost. Labour was up against a Tory party that can't agree on anything. They offered nothing new to improve things. A decent Labour party would have won the last election. And Labour will win the next one if they sort things out. They have the people to do it. But if things stay the same so will the next result.
One thing that makes me laugh is Corbyn wants out of the EU. But those who want to stay in the EU defend him. May wants to stay in the EU. But those who also want to stay in the EU do nothing but attack her.
May is onto a loser for the reasons you have stated alone. And she is having to do something she doesn't want to do. Personally I think that is why there was another election. She didn't have to call one. But if it all goes wrong the Tories will have enough time to replace her before the next general election. If it goes well she stays.Problem for Corbyn is if he takes a remain stance he'll be attacked for ignoring the electorate. If he says leaves he's attacked by those on the labour side who want to remain.
He's probably best off at the moment just nudging May along and giving her enough rope to hang herself.
May is onto a loser for the reasons you have stated alone. And she is having to do something she doesn't want to do. Personally I think that is why there was another election. She didn't have to call one. But if it all goes wrong the Tories will have enough time to replace her before the next general election. If it goes well she stays.
Labour needs someone with charisma like Bliar. Not the lies part of course. But someone that everyone can get behind that doesn't have a past that van be thrown at them. Someone that sounds as though they mean what they say. Not someone who just drifts along.
It makes you wonder why these MP's haven't been brought through. It is as though they don't want any competition for Corbyn.It was a chance lost I agree, if the party hadn't spent 2 years fighting within itself then it may have been a different result. There are some excellent MP's that are not part of the shadow cabinet, but there are also some career MP's that are not interested in serving their electorate, and they need to be weeded out from Labour and all parties really. There is a reason that so many people are still disengaged with politicians because they are perceived as in it for themselves.
Brexit is going to dominate our politics for the next 2 years, which I fear means that there are other areas in crisis that are not going to be highlighted and addressed (NHS, Universal Credit, Education, Housing).
But the Tories have already fucked up big time. This would be a good time to have a strong leader that could keep kicking them in the balls. But since Bliar there has been nobody. They always seem to choose the wrong one.It's probably the hardest place to be, if the party take a stance on remain then they may gain some voters, but they will lose any trust in the electorate by essentially disregarding what they voted for. Like chiefdave said, better to sit back with your cards close to your chest and watch the Tories fuck it up, and try and pick up the pieces from there.
It makes you wonder why these MP's haven't been brought through. It is as though they don't want any competition for Corbyn.
That will never happen.Corbyn's direction has set the tone for the way the Labour party is going (certainly for the foreseeable future). It is no longer a watered down version of what the Tories have to offer. Now it may not appeal to some people, but you at least have a clear choice when you go to the ballot box. Maybe this means there will be a 3rd party with a centrist focus come through in the future who knows, which may contain MP's from both parties who decide that ideologically that they can't continue to represent the respective direction in which they are going.
But the Tories have already fucked up big time. This would be a good time to have a strong leader that could keep kicking them in the balls. But since Bliar there has been nobody. They always seem to choose the wrong one.
Angela Eagle profile: 'She’s tough – in the best possible sense'Owen Smith, LOL
But are you saying that he is the best that Labour has?Again, we will have to respectfully disagree on that point. Corbyn will always have the baggage of his past, but his notion for what he wants to see changed in society comes for me is the right direction we need to head in. He may not see it through all the way to the end, but I feel we are at least on a track to some modicum of decency and justness.
Problem for Corbyn is if he takes a remain stance he'll be attacked for ignoring the electorate. If he says leaves he's attacked by those on the labour side who want to remain.
He's probably best off at the moment just nudging May along and giving her enough rope to hang herself.
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You're criticising Corbyn for pushing the government to follow the result of the vote. Irrespective of his personal stance if the next day he'd started saying we should ignore the vote you would have criticised him for that as well.Remember the next day after the election they were demanding the government triggered article 50
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You're criticising Corbyn for pushing the government to follow the result of the vote. Irrespective of his personal stance if the next day he'd started saying we should ignore the vote you would have criticised him for that as well.
No I just find him a hypocrite. He hates Europe with a passion and should have campaigned to leave rather than abandon one of his life long principals just to keep the rewards and benefits of his job.
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