Oh Jeremy Corbyn (2 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

Only the parliamentary members get a vote not party members.

Last time I looked party members got a vote to choose between the 2 contestants who polled highest in ballot of MP's.
But Leadsom dropped out leaving only May in the hat, so no vote was needed.

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

Last time I looked party members got a vote to choose between the 2 contestants who polled highest in ballot of MP's.
But Leadsom dropped out leaving only May in the hat, so no vote was needed.

It does, however, show how the Conservative Party are better drilled to get the most appropriate candidate. Sure, it's a choice for party members, but it's a choice that's moderated by the parliamentary party. If Labour did that, we'd have had Burnham v Cooper I guess. Whether that would have been better or worse for them, I guess we'll never know...

On the plus side, it's also why Johnson will always struggle to end up leader of the country.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well as I said, I'm not going to sully this thread beyond getting sucked in by the panto villian now and again. Let'sface it, the same circles have been going ad infinitum.

That being said, even Grendel accepts Corbyn had a great election campaign... maybe it's focussing on the positive, rather than the constant attempts to belittle that did it. Unfortunately, the latter works more often than not, but it'd be nice to think that will change, and it will become more about what people can do to help.

I still don't really know what the current government will do in terms of a grand plan. I see some bits and bobs. Whether I agree with them or not is not the issue, more the lack of a long-term strategy. I guess (tbf) whether you agreed with it or not, both Thatcher and Blair were able to set that out.

Corbyn had a great election. I myself changed my vote from Tory to Labour, voting labour for only the second time in my life (the first being Tony Blair’s first election) and had planned to vote Tory again this time (as per my usual/default vote) right up until the point I read both manifestos. I found myself in entire dissatisfaction and disagreement with the Tory manifesto and largely in agreement with the Labour manifesto. Much to my surprise. In the end I voted neither with my heart or my head, I voted with my conscience. Something I don’t regret and actually feel a little proud of myself for taking my time to read the manifestos and change my vote. As it stands I’m voting labour next time as well. Again with a clear conscience.

 

[Astute]

Corbyn had a great election. I myself changed my vote from Tory to Labour, voting labour for only the second time in my life (the first being Tony Blair’s first election) and had planned to vote Tory again this time (as per my usual/default vote) right up until the point I read both manifestos. I found myself in entire dissatisfaction and disagreement with the Tory manifesto and largely in agreement with the Labour manifesto. Much to my surprise. In the end I voted neither with my heart or my head, I voted with my conscience. Something I don’t regret and actually feel a little proud of myself for taking my time to read the manifestos and change my vote. As it stands I’m voting labour next time as well. Again with a clear conscience.

You are funny sometimes.

So you are a Tory. You love the EU and want to stay in it. You voted for Corbyn last time and will vote for him again as your conscience will be clear. Yet Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

You are funny sometimes.

So you are a Tory. You love the EU and want to stay in it. You voted for Corbyn last time and will vote for him again as your conscience will be clear. Yet Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU.

We’re leaving the EU nothing is going to change that. You have to resign to that fact at some point and a general election is as good as a point as any, the best point probably.

So when it came to it Labour had a vision, a plan and a costed explanation of how they attended to achieve it. The Tories had none of that. In fact if you didn’t know better you’d think it was labour who had called the snap election and the tories had been caught by surprise. Even on the subject of brexit labour had a clear vision, the tories on the other hand didn’t and that shows in negotiations. Davis and the government are having rings ran around them because they didn’t have a vision for brexit so therefore couldn’t secure a mandate for what brexit means and what shape it will take. The incompetence is remarkable and I for one am glad I didn’t vote for the shower of shit running the country. I’d be as embarrassed as fuck if I did. We’re going to end up with a make do brexit from a make do government.

 

[Kingokings204]

We’re leaving the EU nothing is going to change that. You have to resign to that fact at some point and a general election is as good as a point as any, the best point probably.

So when it came to it Labour had a vision, a plan and a costed explanation of how they attended to achieve it. The Tories had none of that. In fact if you didn’t know better you’d think it was labour who had called the snap election and the tories had been caught by surprise. Even on the subject of brexit labour had a clear vision, the tories on the other hand didn’t and that shows in negotiations. Davis and the government are having rings ran around them because they didn’t have a vision for brexit so therefore couldn’t secure a mandate for what brexit means and what shape it will take. The incompetence is remarkable and I for one am glad I didn’t vote for the shower of shit running the country. I’d be as embarrassed as fuck if I did. We’re going to end up with a make do brexit from a make do government.

So the cats out the bag here, your last sentence agrees entirely with me but in the EU thread you make out it was expected and realistic brexit. So is it “realistic” brexit or “make do”? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[skybluetony176]

So the cats out the bag here, your last sentence agrees entirely with me but in the EU thread you make out it was expected and realistic brexit. So is it “realistic” brexit or “make do”? You can’t have it both ways.

Never said anything different. This government went into an election without a brexit vision so never received a mandate for brexit. The fact that it isn’t plain sailing like some would have you believe because Mercedes, BMW and Audi want to sell us cars etc just reaffirms that no one is getting the brexit they voted for, the fact that you get brexiteers who are angry at the prospect of paying one penny on a divorce bill let alone the prospect of £45b proves no one is getting the brexit they voted for, let’s see what happens over the Irish border, no one voted for a two tier brexit but that’s another prospect that is possible if not likely. If we had a stronger government these things probably wouldn’t have been all that different to how they’re turning out to be. We may have arrived there in a more concise and orderly fashion and sooner but I doubt that the details would be much different. This is the reality of brexit and always was. Brexiteers like you aren’t happy with it, you’re the ones casting negativity over it not remainers, we’re getting the brexit that most of us anticipated. Our “negativity” was actually reality, a reality that you’re taking very negatively it has to be said.

 

[Astute]

Brexiteers like you aren’t happy with it, you’re the ones casting negativity over it not remainers, we’re getting the brexit that most of us anticipated. Our “negativity” was actually reality, a reality that you’re taking very negatively it has to be said.

Your negativity is reality?

There has been no reality from the remain mob. Just like there has been no reality from the leave mob.

You have shown the same mentality as the remain mob. You have not wanted to listen to a word of positivity. You have gone on the attack against anyone showing the slightest positivity. You have gone on the attack against anyone not saying enough against May.

You have said that a deal must be made. You have said we.must pay what is owed. Now the numbers are coming out you have changed direction yet again as it suits your plan of attack.

It could be looked at in a different way. It is going to cost us about 4 to 5 years of net payments to leave. Yes this shows us that it costs a lot of money to have a massive trade deficit. But you will make a comment against this.

So now we will have to see what sort of deal is offered.

 

[Sick Boy]

Your negativity is reality?

There has been no reality from the remain mob. Just like there has been no reality from the leave mob.

You have shown the same mentality as the remain mob. You have not wanted to listen to a word of positivity. You have gone on the attack against anyone showing the slightest positivity. You have gone on the attack against anyone not saying enough against May.

You have said that a deal must be made. You have said we.must pay what is owed. Now the numbers are coming out you have changed direction yet again as it suits your plan of attack.

It could be looked at in a different way. It is going to cost us about 4 to 5 years of net payments to leave. Yes this shows us that it costs a lot of money to have a massive trade deficit. But you will make a comment against this.

So now we will have to see what sort of deal is offered.

I remember some posters attacking me for being positive about the EU, no names mentioned though.

 

[Astute]

I remember some posters attacking me for being positive about the EU, no names mentioned though.

There is positivity and then there is a total bias which is well past positivity. Because of your circumstances you are much closer to the last one.

 

[Sick Boy]

There is positivity and then there is a total bias which is well past positivity. Because of your circumstances you are much closer to the last one.

I'm a proud European citizen and have friends across the continent and love the concept of the EU. I make no apologies for that!

 

[skybluetony176]

Your negativity is reality?

No it was just reality. People didn’t like what remainers were saying so labelled it negativity.

Plenty on here bought into the rhetoric of Gove, Farage, Boris, Davis etc and repeated it on here as if it was established fact. When questioned by the likes of myself and others as being speculative rhetoric and the reality was it wasn’t going to be an easy process like it was being made out we were accused of being negative. In fact some are even blaming people like me for it turning out to be difficult rather than take responsibility for their own vote. Not just on here, on Twitter, Facebook etc and it’s even a regular occurrence in the question time audience.

Take ownership of your vote. If brexit ends up being the best thing since sliced bred and you voted leave well done. However, as there is little evidence yet of that happening it’s about time brexiteers started admitting that they may have not got this right based on their reasoning for voting out. It’s not been easy, it never was going to be. One of the arguments from the out camp was that the EU is a protectionist organisation and now they’re acting all faux surprised at protectionist behaviour from the EU like they never knew they behaved that way. They said from the beginning that leaving the EU could never be better than remaining. If you bought all the rhetoric about it being plain sailing because they’ll still want to sell us some goods there’s no point being negative about the divorce bill, you bought a line that obviously wasn’t going to be reality. Some people need to wake up to brexit and it isn’t the ones who voted remain. There’s a very good reason that we can say I told you so and it isn’t because we wished for it to be difficult so we could.

 

[Astute]

No it was just reality. People didn’t like what remainers were saying so labelled it negativity.

Reality?

People like yourself don't like any POV that isn't the same as your own. You have spent over a year trying to prove me wrong. You have been making out that I defend May although nobody has been able to point at anything. You say I am biased although I constantly speak out against all sides. And that is because all of them have handled it wrong from the start. You only see lies from one side. You constantly go on about how badly it will all end up when nobody knows.

And then you say that the leave side had the negativity

 

[skybluetony176]

Anyhow. Bringing it back on topic you have to admire the job Corbyn has done as leader of the Labour Party despite his MP’s rebelling against their members wishes.

 

[Captain Dart]

We’re leaving the EU nothing is going to change that. You have to resign to that fact at some point and a general election is as good as a point as any, the best point probably.

So when it came to it Labour had a vision, a plan and a costed explanation of how they attended to achieve it. The Tories had none of that. In fact if you didn’t know better you’d think it was labour who had called the snap election and the tories had been caught by surprise. Even on the subject of brexit labour had a clear vision, the tories on the other hand didn’t and that shows in negotiations. Davis and the government are having rings ran around them because they didn’t have a vision for brexit so therefore couldn’t secure a mandate for what brexit means and what shape it will take. The incompetence is remarkable and I for one am glad I didn’t vote for the shower of shit running the country. I’d be as embarrassed as fuck if I did. We’re going to end up with a make do brexit from a make do government.

I don't think they costed it, at least not on remotely valid assumptions they didn't.

 

[clint van damme]

I don't think they costed it, at least not on remotely valid assumptions they didn't.

but that has been my argument all along, they did cost it, that is a fact. The tories didn't, that is a fact.

Your comment about valid assumptions is subjective so that's a criticism that people are totally entitled to hold about their projections.

 

[Captain Dart]

but that has been my argument all along, they did cost it, that is a fact. The tories didn't, that is a fact.

Your comment about valid assumptions is subjective so that's a criticism that people are totally entitled to hold about their projections.

Do you trust John McDonnell to get his sums right?

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you trust John McDonnell to get his sums right?

He’s a politician. I wouldn’t trust him any more than I would someone who insists that there isn’t a magic money tree and then promptly found one because an ill advised decision lost them their overall majority and they had to buy the influence of a minority party.

But at least labour put something up for scrutiny. May didn’t have a clue one way or the other if there was a magic money tree or not, judging by the amount of times she’s dug into it since the election there clearly was.

Would labour have found the cash to do everything that they pledged? They’d be the first government ever if they did but what they did offer was a fairer tax system, a solution to the decline in wages that everyone likes to blame the EU for taking people out of poverty and of living benefits, real investment in the NHS, a clear vision of brexit, to name a few. I doubt they’d have ever found the money for things like nationalisation of the railways but I think that they would have addresses the basics that have been neglected by numerous governments now. And by god do we need that to happen.

 

[Astute]

Do you trust John McDonnell to get his sums right?

More than I trust Dianne Abbott :smuggrin:

 

[clint van damme]

Do you trust John McDonnell to get his sums right?

I don't trust any politician to get there sums right and he's clearly got a few wrong. But Hammond isn't exactly squeaky clean - just the 20 billion out on the HS2 figures.

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you trust John McDonnell to get his sums right?

Hammond has got his sums very wrong in the past and Johnson didn't even know what was in the manifesto. I didn't see you pointing this out at the time?

 

[Captain Dart]

Meanwhile an intellectual giant....

.

 

[clint van damme]

Meanwhile an intellectual giant....

.

is that the most important part of this story for you?
Not the fact that the majority of survivors haven't been rehoused.
Not the fact that sprinkler systems haven't been installed in more tower blocks but the opportunity to snigger at Diane Abbots dodgy grammar.

 

[skybluetony176]

is that the most important part of this story for you?
Not the fact that the majority of survivors haven't been rehoused.
Not the fact that sprinkler systems haven't been installed in more tower blocks but the opportunity to snigger at Diane Abbots dodgy grammar.

Got to get your priorities right.

 

[Astute]

One day hopefully most people will realise that most politicians don't give a fuck about us. It is all about them and what is best for them.

 

[Ian1779]

is that the most important part of this story for you?
Not the fact that the majority of survivors haven't been rehoused.
Not the fact that sprinkler systems haven't been installed in more tower blocks but the opportunity to snigger at Diane Abbots dodgy grammar.

He only relays what CCHQ instruct him to do.

 

[martcov]

One day hopefully most people will realise that most politicians don't give a fuck about us. It is all about them and what is best for them.

Bit of a sweeping unsubstantiated statement. Do you think Grieve putting the amendment forward knowing that there would be the usual lynch mob mentality on the front page of the Mail which resulted in abuse and death threats, was just about him?

You played down the Mail‘s vicious attack on democracy and conveniently didn’t see the front page of the paper edition.

Surprisingly enough your post follows their line though.

 

[Astute]

Bit of a sweeping unsubstantiated statement. Do you think Grieve putting the amendment forward knowing that there would be the usual lynch mob mentality on the front page of the Mail which resulted in abuse and death threats, was just about him?

You played down the Mail‘s vicious attack on democracy and conveniently didn’t see the front page of the paper edition.

Surprisingly enough your post follows their line though.

What a surprise. Your normal utter crap.

So are you now saying that most MP's give a fuck about us? Isn't it strange that you disagree with everything I say.

As I said I google what is going on. I couldn't tell you the front page of any paper. Yesterday I posted a link to the Mail that wasn't anti EU. Why didn't you comment on that? Is it because it doesn't fit in with your agenda against me or the Mail?

 

[martcov]

What a surprise. Your normal utter crap.

So are you now saying that most MP's give a fuck about us? Isn't it strange that you disagree with everything I say.

As I said I google what is going on. I couldn't tell you the front page of any paper. Yesterday I posted a link to the Mail that wasn't anti EU. Why didn't you comment on that? Is it because it doesn't fit in with your agenda against me or the Mail?

I didn’t say anything of the sort. Making things up again.

I didn’t comment because it didn‘t pillory anyone. The paper edition did. It also portrayed people who voted for democracy as selfish.

 

[Captain Dart]

and while we're at it how about a bit of Jezza on Iran

 

[dancers lance]

and while we're at it how about a bit of Jezza on Iran

An event to celebrate the turning of a once proudly secular, forward thinking society, into a medieval theocracy. It's like banning toilet paper and then holding a celebration for the day we all went back to wiping are arses with stinging nettles.

 

[fernandopartridge]

An event to celebrate the turning of a once proudly secular, forward thinking society, into a medieval theocracy. It's like banning toilet paper and then holding a celebration for the day we all went back to wiping are arses with stinging nettles.

Bizarre that Corbyn would be an advocate of the Islamic revolution. Religion and Socialism aren't easy bedfellows.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[dancers lance]

Bizarre that Corbyn would be an advocate of the Islamic revolution. Religion and Socialism aren't easy bedfellows.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I know, perhaps he missed this bit? .....Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like. Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man.

 

[mrtrench]

Bizarre that Corbyn would be an advocate of the Islamic revolution. Religion and Socialism aren't easy bedfellows.

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Not bizarre at all when you realise he's a perpetual miserabilist; someone whose core instinct is to side with those that oppose his own country and an opportunist. The extreme left have been courting Muslims for years, it perfectly meets their dismal agenda. Not only have they found the new IRA to support in Islamism, but it comes with the added advantage that the Muslim vote is now massive in the UK and reportedly easy to manipulate. I think that a significant proportion of the reasons why they have become antisemitic is because they perceive that's another way they can align themselves with their Islamist friends.

For clarity: I deliberately use the word Islamist here when referring to the murdering; sharia-loving; hateful Muslims that exist. Other, lovely; reasonable; law-abiding Muslims are available.

 

[Captain Dart]

Bizarre that Corbyn would be an advocate of the Islamic revolution. Religion and Socialism aren't easy bedfellows.

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There is a lot of bizarre stuff out there.