OK so tell me what exactly and realisticly should happen next? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Griffin]

From the Trust Q&A

But according to that SISU/CCFC were offered acces to the F&B books and would allow cross invoicing, where did you see or hear Young Timothy say that ACL couldn't do it?

I believe Timothy's weasel words were about not having access to detailed past records (which of course didn't exist), but ACL were quite happy for them to look closely at records going forward.
There has been plenty of opportunity to do that since the negotiations broke down & to talk to Compass. SISU as we know haven't made any attempt to look or talk.. claiming they have 'no alternative' but to move.

 

---

[Spionkop]

Stupot, there's an old saying 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer still.' Now of course you're probably a decent guy and enemy would be a little strong, however, I'm reading what you say and contesting it, because your views are so defeatist and letting our team down - they need opposing.

 

[James Smith]

I believe Timothy's weasel words were about not having access to detailed past records (which of course didn't exist), but ACL were quite happy for them to look closely at records going forward.
There has been plenty of opportunity to do that since the negotiations broke down & to talk to Compass. SISU as we know haven't made any attempt to look or talk.. claiming they have 'no alternative' but to move.

Ah I have a friend who works in newsagents and has a regular customer who does something similar. He comes in and spends about 15-30mins reading a magazine then approaches my friend at the counter and asks for something they don't sell/doesn't exist like a dark chocolate Twix. When he gets a negative response to the availability of the chocolate bar/whatever, he says he doesn't want the magazine in that case and walks out.

 

[Delboycov]

Don't get me wrong I hate the fact it will be 3 years away ground sharing. I hate the fact the council can't step in and try and do something for it's people and football fans to at least let SISU play for free at the Ricoh. How could they then refuse that and how could the FL refuse sense in it too?
3 years is a long time and much can happen. If the club were there for 3 years for free the income for ACL would be much the same. Without the football club they have a serious problem with the contracts they have negotiated and any sponsorships such as Ricoh etc. the hotel, casino, compass to name a few. Ask yourself seriously why have they simply not made that blanket offer and told the football league last Monday?

Why do you insist on saying it will be 3 years away? Even they have conceded it will take up to 5 years and signed an option with NTFC to that effect. Do you genuinely believe they will get planning permission and build a new stadium within that 3 year timeframe? I wonder why you're trying to underplay what's happening here....

 

[blueflint]

Sorry but you're wrong, sisu did pay the full rent that financial year (2011-12), ACL made £1m profit while sisu had paid £1.2m in rent.

"THE COMPANY that runs the Ricoh Arena has posted annual profits of over £1million.

The accounts reveal a turnover of £7,782,519 with an operating profit of £1,086,886 for the year ending May 31 2012 - £600,000 more than the previous year.

ACL claim the accounts provide a solid platform for growth in the coming years despite the profit including the full £1.2million paid by the club in rent before it stop paying."

think you will find only paid part rent

 

[blueflint]

g, where did you see or hear Young Timothy say that ACL couldn't do it?

timothy didn't he said SISU wouldn't

 

[Noggin]

Why do you insist on saying it will be 3 years away? Even they have conceded it will take up to 5 years and signed an option with NTFC to that effect. Do you genuinely believe they will get planning permission and build a new stadium within that 3 year timeframe? I wonder why you're trying to underplay what's happening here....

yep we all thought 3 years was a ludicrous time frame and they had no hope of achieving it, unsurprisingly it's already been proved by the fact a few months in they are already a few months behind.

 

[Paxman II]

It's been stated 3 years. The fact they would have an option to extend is just an insurance if you like...nothing unusual there.
If they did stay away for as long as 5 years I would be very surprised as they are funding the period and would need to be back in Coventry with either a new stadium or a new deal with some ownership of the Ricoh.
For those who genuinely think ACL will survive as a stadium business as it's core foundation without the cities football club are in dream land.
For those that think building a smaller stadium can not be done financially you are also wrong. It will be financed by a developer and the mortgage on such would equate to far less than the rent they pay ACL for a stadium they are just tenants in? I think if a new stadium went up overnight most on here would have no problem? It can't get done over night, that's the only difference.
The much preferred alternate is to have at least a share in the Ricoh. ACL are running a show that dictates terms to the entertainers and no rights to anything without their explicit say so and when they do bend slightly it's simply not enough.
Do you want a council under ACL to continually deny any ownership of the cities stadium to the football club?
While I'm aware of the mistrust in SISU and their record of unfair handling they are still like anyone other company liable to follow an agreement if the right one was made. The fact ACL can't or won't find an agreement is a disturbing thought.
Sometimes in business you pull out when there seems no hope of agreement and continue with plan B.

 

[Astute]

ok, explain how that policy can be used to hurt SISU! without hurting the club first?
the starved revenue will have an immediate and critical effect on the small, FFP limited budget of the team!
It is unlikely to even dent the financial might of SISU?


ABOVE ALL ELSE WE SHOULD BE PUTTING THE TEAM FIRST!

imp:

By moving to Northampton SISU have the perfect excuse to give us a poor squad again. They will blame the fans, ACL and anyone but themselves. But it is them moving us away and to a small ground. This is what will have the biggest effect on the FFP. But some of you will believe everything they say as usual.

 

[Astute]

For those that think building a smaller stadium can not be done financially you are also wrong. It will be financed by a developer and the mortgage on such would equate to far less than the rent they pay ACL for a stadium they are just tenants in?

Who in their right mind would trust SISU?

 

[valiant15]

Who in their right mind would trust SISU?

We all had a fantastic day on the march yesterday,our plight was highlighted by thousands of city fans,then you get cranks like paxman trying to spoil things with shitty pro sisu crap. I bet you wouldn't of dared to spout any of this shit on the march yesterday eh pax? I doubt if you were even there eh. You and the other sisu crank greggo are in the minority. We don't need fans like you.

 

[Paxman II]

I think a lot of their investors do?

Difficult I know but under a tenancy agreement which they had, there is always plenty of legal manoeuvring available. Under a contractual ownership agreement there is less ambiguity and therefore less manoeuvring ability to defame as they have done to ACL as mere renters. It becomes less about trust then.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think a lot of their investors do?

Difficult I know but under a tenancy agreement which they had, there is always plenty of legal manoeuvring available. Under a contractual ownership agreement there is less ambiguity and therefore less manoeuvring ability to defame as they have done to ACL as mere renters. It becomes less about trust then.

They must be telling some absolute whoppers to their investors to get them to touch us with a barge pole having seen all of this negative press.

 

[Noggin]

It's been stated 3 years. The fact they would have an option to extend is just an insurance if you like...nothing unusual there.
If they did stay away for as long as 5 years I would be very surprised as they are funding the period and would need to be back in Coventry with either a new stadium or a new deal with some ownership of the Ricoh.
For those who genuinely think ACL will survive as a stadium business as it's core foundation without the cities football club are in dream land.
For those that think building a smaller stadium can not be done financially you are also wrong. It will be financed by a developer and the mortgage on such would equate to far less than the rent they pay ACL for a stadium they are just tenants in? I think if a new stadium went up overnight most on here would have no problem? It can't get done over night, that's the only difference.
The much preferred alternate is to have at least a share in the Ricoh. ACL are running a show that dictates terms to the entertainers and no rights to anything without their explicit say so and when they do bend slightly it's simply not enough.
Do you want a council under ACL to continually deny any ownership of the cities stadium to the football club?
While I'm aware of the mistrust in SISU and their record of unfair handling they are still like anyone other company liable to follow an agreement if the right one was made. The fact ACL can't or won't find an agreement is a disturbing thought.
Sometimes in business you pull out when there seems no hope of agreement and continue with plan B.

Surely you don't belive most of what you are saying there.

It has been stated 3 years by Fisher, there is little to no precedent in this being possible and many many examples of it taking many many years longer, we've already seen that we are months behind compared to what Fisher has already said. We were meant to have land by now, plans were meant to have been shown to the football league by now. There is NO chance whatsoever of us moving into a SISU built stadium in time for the 2016 season, none and I'd happily bet my house on it.

"For those who genuinely think ACL will survive as a stadium business as it's core foundation without the cities football club are in dream land." There loses are going to be much much less significant than the football clubs over the next few years. I do think they need us, but we need them way way more.

"For those that think building a smaller stadium can not be done financially you are also wrong. It will be financed by a developer and the mortgage on such would equate to far less than the rent they pay ACL for a stadium they are just tenants in? " This is just nonsence there is no chance of the mortgage being anywhere close to as low as 400k a year.

"I think if a new stadium went up overnight most on here would have no problem? It can't get done over night, that's the only difference. " The problems would be much less yes, we'd need to see the size and location of the stadium as well as who actually owned it, what rent and mortgage we'd been paying before we could decide weather there was a problem or not. But that hypothetical scenario is irrelevent, it's not possible and the 5 + years (I dont even belive it would be done in 5) will be fatal or at least exceptionally damaging.

"The much preferred alternate is to have at least a share in the Ricoh. ACL are running a show that dictates terms to the entertainers and no rights to anything without their explicit say so and when they do bend slightly it's simply not enough. " they had there chance at this, if they had brought the higgs share when they brought the club it would have already paid for itself.

"Do you want a council under ACL to continually deny any ownership of the cities stadium to the football club?" to the football club, no. To SISU yes.

"While I'm aware of the mistrust in SISU and their record of unfair handling they are still like anyone other company liable to follow an agreement if the right one was made. The fact ACL can't or won't find an agreement is a disturbing thought. " based of course on the fact they are honest and forthcoming, haven't broken agreements even legally binding ones in the past, have followed what the court has ordered from them, I could go on and on.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

On a side note isn't it nice to see all those supporters on the FL Sky adverts talking about how early they started supporting their clubs and how they can't wait for the new season to begin?

 

[Astute]

I think a lot of their investors do?

Difficult I know but under a tenancy agreement which they had, there is always plenty of legal manoeuvring available. Under a contractual ownership agreement there is less ambiguity and therefore less manoeuvring ability to defame as they have done to ACL as mere renters. It becomes less about trust then.

There is always the annual administration they do these days for anyone to consider that is foolish enough to think they could make any money out of them.

 

[dongonzalos]

the goalposts have moved.
SISU tried to negotiate a resonable rent. When the best deal TF could take back to JS was 400k, (20m for the 50yr term), they realised they could build a new stadium for similar outlay.
The Ricoh is a fine stadium but its viability is dependant upon the football club. The Ricoh empty is of little value without the ability to regularly fill it - which is what the football club have. They can and will take that ability to a new venue if forced. They are not interested in the Ricoh itself as an empty stadium, they are now even less interested in aquiring ACL!.

The ability to fill it, is worth more than the empty stadium.

Even if the council try to make it viable without the club, they would be cutting off their nose to not want the business generated by the club inside the city boundary!

imp:

The problem is it will be 5 years, it is about trying to break ACL not about building a new stadium.

TF says you need to sell at the height of the business cycle.

We are apparently somewhere between 35-75 million in debt depending on who you believe.

If you spend 20-30 million on a new stadium when you sell you need to get a buyer prepared to spend 100 million just to get your money back.

Never mind the loses of 5 years in Northampton and the costs of all the legal battles.

This is about one - two years out of the Ricoh to see what happens to ACL.

If anyone thinks otherwise I am sorry but you are very very naive.

 

[Steve.B50]

I think a lot of their investors do?

Difficult I know but under a tenancy agreement which they had, there is always plenty of legal manoeuvring available. Under a contractual ownership agreement there is less ambiguity and therefore less manoeuvring ability to defame as they have done to ACL as mere renters. It becomes less about trust then.

You hit it on the head when you say investors, as that's what they will need to build a new stadium, if they ever got panning permission. Then these investors would want there money back with interest, who would own the new stadium and what would rent be? Remember SISU are a hedge fund, if they don't make money they do not exist.

 

[Paxman II]

Surely you don't belive most of what you are saying there.

It has been stated 3 years by Fisher, there is little to no precedent in this being possible and many many examples of it taking many many years longer, we've already seen that we are months behind compared to what Fisher has already said. We were meant to have land by now, plans were meant to have been shown to the football league by now. There is NO chance whatsoever of us moving into a SISU built stadium in time for the 2016 season, none and I'd happily bet my house on it.

"For those who genuinely think ACL will survive as a stadium business as it's core foundation without the cities football club are in dream land." There loses are going to be much much less significant than the football clubs over the next few years. I do think they need us, but we need them way way more.

"For those that think building a smaller stadium can not be done financially you are also wrong. It will be financed by a developer and the mortgage on such would equate to far less than the rent they pay ACL for a stadium they are just tenants in? " This is just nonsence there is no chance of the mortgage being anywhere close to as low as 400k a year.

"I think if a new stadium went up overnight most on here would have no problem? It can't get done over night, that's the only difference. " The problems would be much less yes, we'd need to see the size and location of the stadium as well as who actually owned it, what rent and mortgage we'd been paying before we could decide weather there was a problem or not. But that hypothetical scenario is irrelevent, it's not possible and the 5 + years (I dont even belive it would be done in 5) will be fatal or at least exceptionally damaging.

"The much preferred alternate is to have at least a share in the Ricoh. ACL are running a show that dictates terms to the entertainers and no rights to anything without their explicit say so and when they do bend slightly it's simply not enough. " they had there chance at this, if they had brought the higgs share when they brought the club it would have already paid for itself.

"Do you want a council under ACL to continually deny any ownership of the cities stadium to the football club?" to the football club, no. To SISU yes.

"While I'm aware of the mistrust in SISU and their record of unfair handling they are still like anyone other company liable to follow an agreement if the right one was made. The fact ACL can't or won't find an agreement is a disturbing thought. " based of course on the fact they are honest and forthcoming, haven't broken agreements even legally binding ones in the past, have followed what the court has ordered from them, I could go on and on.

All I do is state facts. You come on and debunk them with pure fantasy and no factual back up to what you say?
That's one of the great problems in debate on these boards. Many live in sentimental land and simply state stuff without basis.

 

[Godiva]

The problem is it will be 5 years, it is about trying to break ACL not about building a new stadium.

TF says you need to sell at the height of the business cycle.

We are apparently somewhere between 35-75 million in debt depending on who you believe.

If you spend 20-30 million on a new stadium when you sell you need to get a buyer prepared to spend 100 million just to get your money back.

Never mind the loses of 5 years in Northampton and the costs of all the legal battles.

This is about one - two years out of the Ricoh to see what happens to ACL.

If anyone thinks otherwise I am sorry but you are very very naive.

Then I am very, very naive ... but you knew that already, so that's not exactly breaking news.

As most of the new stadium costs are covered by selling off land, leases and mortgages a potential buyer won't have to table £100m. They will take over the loans/mortgages and pay sisu what they expect is a fair return on their investments. That may be around £40m and if the club and stadium are making progres and turn a collective profit of around £4-5m there will be buyers prepared to pay that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then I am very, very naive ... but you knew that already, so that's not exactly breaking news.

As most of the new stadium costs are covered by selling off land, leases and mortgages a potential buyer won't have to table £100m. They will take over the loans/mortgages and pay sisu what they expect is a fair return on their investments. That may be around £40m and if the club and stadium are making progres and turn a collective profit of around £4-5m there will be buyers prepared to pay that.

Profit of £4-5m? You're madder than I thought.

 

[Godiva]

Profit of £4-5m? You're madder than I thought.

In 5-7 years? I don't think so.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

In 5-7 years? I don't think so.

How many league 1 clubs make £4-5m profit. In 5 years time SISU theoretically may have built a stadium .In the preceding years at Northampton, with 3,000 average max, financial fair play will almost certainly have resulted in us being in L2. Even allowing for an unlikely promotion back to L1, where does £4-5m annual profit come from(Pies in the sky?? - bloody expensive ones methinks). Love to see how you arrive at that:thinking about:

 

[Noggin]

All I do is state facts. You come on and debunk them with pure fantasy and no factual back up to what you say?
That's one of the great problems in debate on these boards. Many live in sentimental land and simply state stuff without basis.

The only fact you gave was that it's been stated it will only be 3 years till we move in to the new stadium, thats something I don't debunk, that has been stated, unfortunately it's been stated by someone with a huge history of dishonesty and has zero hope of being true.

Rotherham who we've heard we are basing our selves around managed it 4 years and 2 months after moving out and they were only building a 12k stadium, it still cost 20 mill and they had the support of the local council and didn't have pretty much everyone wanting to prevent it from happening. you think we can do much better?

 

[dadgad]

There's more chance of seeing Elvis than a new stadium ffs!
People are so gullible it's bizarre!?

 

[Paxman II]

If there is no agreement they may well build a new stadium. I actually believe that eventually while we are ground sharing there is a perfectly good stadium being under utilised in the city and finally ACL and SISU will get together and work out the compromise they should be doing now. The heartache that we suffer first is purely resting on the shoulders of both these clowns tbf.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In 5-7 years? I don't think so.

Name one club outwith the PL that makes that kind of profit.

 

[dadgad]

If there is no agreement they may well build a new stadium. .

Are you dry behind the lugs? More chance of us being amalgamated into Sky Blue Cobblers ................for ever.

 

[dongonzalos]

Then I am very, very naive ... but you knew that already, so that's not exactly breaking news.

As most of the new stadium costs are covered by selling off land, leases and mortgages a potential buyer won't have to table £100m. They will take over the loans/mortgages and pay sisu what they expect is a fair return on their investments. That may be around £40m and if the club and stadium are making progres and turn a collective profit of around £4-5m there will be buyers prepared to pay that.

At the moment SISU claim to have pumped in 45 million.
We are in debt prior to this for 30 million.
Building a new stadium by what ever mechanics loan mortgage etc will cost 30 million.
It would take at least the 5 years with SISU making further loses at a rough generous guess costing 10 million.

If someone buys the club they would as you say have to prepared to take on about 60 million in debt/loans on top of giving SISU 50 million.

That will leave SISU at break even point.

All guesstimates.

All point towards the stadium will never be built.

It is an exercise to leave the Ricoh empty for a couple of years.

 

[NTFC]

Are you dry behind the lugs? More chance of us being amalgamated into Sky Blue Cobblers ................for ever.

That won't happen. SISU will hold out for the Ricoh or hope to sell Cov on to the next "entrepreneur" looking to get access to the Premiership riches. You are ripe for a takeover.

 

[Otis]

Hope you're right.

 

[Spionkop]

Changing tack NTFC, I did think Northampton, when they moved to Sixfields some years ago, would kick on and be challenging to get into the Championship. Northampton must have a population that could sustain that. Lots of new housing in past 25 years etc. After all you were in the top division briefly in the 1960s and you had the absolutely brilliant George Hudson from us.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Yes, it is odd Northampton are not even in league one, it is a big town, should be at least Championship level.

Still Coventry is bigger & has bigger & closer satellite towns (Nuneaton, Warwick, Kenilworth, Rugby etc.)

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

FFS..... It's got fuck all to do with football. How many more times do you all need to be fucking told??? SISU will use us untill they have done what they want(Make your own minds up on that one)