Open letter from Joy and Tim (2 Viewers)

[Samo]

I really really really really hope you're right.

I remember feeling the same after the last statement from Joy, or the Igwe statement. The thing is, from what we've learned it could be positive at the time of these statements but circumstances change quickly and unpredictably.

Currently, I don't see a way around the F&B revenue issue if a short term deal. I have a hunch it'll have to be either a reduced rent and no F&B in the short term, or a longer term deal, with more security for ACL, that includes some buyout of F&B, if not of a share of ACL.

My cynical hat (which hasn't served me far wrong when it comes to Sisu) says that it's the beginning of a change of tactics, but not a change of goal. The aim now being to bring fan support against ACL as they know they won't give them short term F&B (and therefore the ability to see into ACLs books).

But as I say, I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

Yeh long way to go and could go tits up at any turn. You make valid points but there has to be a starting point somewhere and SISU are running out of time and options.

 

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[shmmeee]

Then there is the fact that under the SCMP (ffp doesn't actually apply to league 1, but thats semantics) if the club ever did need to spend more than the 60% they can get around it by injecting cash themselves, the system itself it's almost pointless since it has so many holes.

Something they did last season, didn't they?

Another thing on F&B, from the SBT Q&A:

CCFC would have to negotiate with ACL partner Compass but if after 3 months Compass would not agree access to this level of revenue indicated by ACL, we would ask that the rent be reduced by £100k

That's talking about the F&B with a turnover of about £1m and a profit of about £100k.

So, at some point, Sisu were willing to accept just lower rent (and by the way, that's what ACL came back and offered during the CVA - £150k with no F&B, so actually £150k less than Sisu had asked).

What happened?

It'd make sense that ACL would give CCFC whatever they had before. The Q&A specifically mentions it includes 50% of the parking spaces at the Ricoh (at £5 a game, that's over £100k right there) and pitch side advertising (but not "other advertising").

The only other sticking point mentioned there is the hospitality catering, which CCFC complain leaves no room for profit margin on top. But how much can this seriously be worth? Even at £10 a head for 1000 people a game (which is pushing it), it's only £230k.

So what else are we talking about that could be the sticking point here? Is it really about less than £500k in profit? If so, 2 years at Sixfields wipes out almost a decade of profit.

Edit: Also, this quote (in response to a question about buying in services and reselling) makes it seems F&B is the be all and end all

I don’t know. [the point about no room to make a profit is related to F&B revenues – the F&B revenues and margins appear to be much lower than at other clubs, e.g. Charlton made £1.8m in League 1)

How much value would that extra turnover add to the business?

 

[Noggin]

I think people are kind of missing the point on this statement... Nobody is sussesting its all true that we should be thanking them. We know they lie with every breath and that the F&B argument is bollocks! The reason its good is that its different in tone and is for me, the beginnings of a climb down. No war like rhetoric but talk of reconciliation. Its the statement of a beaten side wanting to talk. I fully expect the money to be paid to ACL sometime on or around the 7th August. Court proceedings to be dropped shortly after and talks to begin shortly after that. Now if they want to use the pie money as a face saver and claim a little victory, that's fine with me as long as we are back in Cov.

They have made their points politely and with the appearance of reason multiple times before admittedly it's not the most common way they have acted, if they are continuing to lie and mislead (which you accept that they are) and have just decided to continue with legal action why is this politeness any reason to believe things are improving? actions are much more important than tone and the actions are lies and more legal action and while this letter is polite it's only been about a week and a half since they were being nasty.

When we actually see some indication they have turned over a new leaf that would be cause for optimism, weasely words and lies are all they've served us over the last couple of years and thats the case weather they are openly spitting in our faces or quietly slipping a knife into our backs.

 

[No future with SISU]

The plan was to distress ACL and get hold of the RICOH on the cheap. The Judge has blown that plan out of the water and now all they have left is appeal after appeal, which SISU will lose. The club are playing in northampton with 1,500 home gates (will fall this year) and losses getting greater. SISU have to come up with a new plan and this letter might be the start. The only way out is to sell or move back to the RICOH on ACL terms. They should have done a deal with ACL when they were in trouble, but like everthing they have done with the club they made a bad decision again.

 

[Samo]

They have made their points politely and with the appearance of reason multiple times before admittedly it's not the most common way they have acted, if they are continuing to lie and mislead (which you accept that they are) and have just decided to continue with legal action why is this politeness any reason to believe things are improving? actions are much more important than tone and the actions are lies and more legal action and while this letter is polite it's only been about a week and a half since they were being nasty.

When we actually see some indication they have turned over a new leaf that would be cause for optimism, weasely words and lies are all they've served us over the last couple of years and thats the case weather they are openly spitting in our faces or quietly slipping a knife into our backs.

I guess we will see what action is taken in due course. But let's be realistic, they are not holding a good hand. With no stadium or land to show to us or the FL, how long can they go on like this?

 

[Noggin]

I guess we will see what action is taken in due course. But let's be realistic, they are not holding a good hand. With no stadium or land to show to us or the FL, how long can they go on like this?

Thats true and that's what we've all been hoping, unfortunately by appealing they are suggesting they aren't quite ready to let go yet.

 

[Samo]

Thats true and that's what we've all been hoping, unforoealing they are suggesting they aren't quite ready to let go yet.

They will continue with whole facade exactly as they have been, including the appeal, until they have meaningful dialogue with ACL. To do otherwise would be to expose their real position and throw their hand altogether. That would leave ACL calling all the shots and themselves impotent at the negotiating table. Here's how I think it will go:

The money is paid to ACL as arranged by the FL.
Sisu: Are f&b revs (in some form) on the table?
Acl: Yes
Acl: Is a withrawl of legals on the table?
Sisu: Yes
Negotiations begin.

Of course it could go wrong at so many points but as I say, it has to start somewhere!

 

[Kingokings204]

All this needs sorting in the next 3 weeks. We have to start at the Ricoh come the start of the season as if we don't then the slow death will continue.

We all know the figures add up to the Ricoh than sixfields by a lot so we have to kick off at the Ricoh.

A good point I read was surely just reducing the rent 50-100k would be a short term solution to good and beverage. Yes it's not ideal but it would be short term so I really don't see what issue sisu would have with this, it's ACL who would be put out but they seem happy enough to do this.

Bottom line is kick off at the Ricoh or else it's at least another gone by with dwindling crowds at sixfields IMO and no excitement or passion. Relegation would be more realistic also.

I still state the first home game (league) against a strong Sheffield united who would bring loads themselves at the Ricoh, packed house and a great game. The excitement would be back and people will come again I am certain. Even more so if the team is doing well. As Tim says "people want to see winning football" actually agree with him on this one.

 

[Astute]

They will continue with whole facade exactly as they have been, including the appeal, until they have meaningful dialogue with ACL. To do otherwise would be to expose their real position and throw their hand altogether. That would leave ACL calling all the shots and themselves impotent at the negotiating table. Here's how I think it will go:

The money is paid to ACL as arranged by the FL.
Sisu: Are f&b revs (in some form) on the table?
Acl: Yes
Acl: Is a withrawl of legals on the table?
Sisu: Yes
Negotiations begin.

Of course it could go wrong at so many points but as I say, it has to start somewhere!

CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?

 

[ccfc92]

CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?

Grendel?

 

[ccfc92]

They will continue with whole facade exactly as they have been, including the appeal, until they have meaningful dialogue with ACL. To do otherwise would be to expose their real position and throw their hand altogether. That would leave ACL calling all the shots and themselves impotent at the negotiating table. Here's how I think it will go:

The money is paid to ACL as arranged by the FL.
Sisu: Are f&b revs (in some form) on the table?
Acl: Yes
Acl: Is a withrawl of legals on the table?
Sisu: Yes
Negotiations begin.

Of course it could go wrong at so many points but as I say, it has to start somewhere!

Completely agree. I just don't understand why it's taking so long? Surely a case of picking up the phone/ e-mail? Plus keeping copies of everything said/agreed in the negotiations so no one can deny what was really said?

 

[Samo]

CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounjds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?

Everything is negotiable. And I am sure ACL would receive a phone call (oooh a phone call!) from SISU to establish requirements prior to negotiations.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?

The £590,000 has already been paid by the Club into an Escrow Account as per the Football League's instructions, negotiations should start now and when heads of terms are agreed it can be stipulated that Sisu drop the Court Appeal.

 

[Samo]

The £590,000 has already been paid by the Club into an Escrow Account as per the Football League's instructions, negotiations should start now and when heads of terms are agreed it can be stipulated that Sisu drop the Court Appeal.

Even better!

 

[Kingokings204]

Yeah it is true about the 590k it has been paid so as far as ACL are concerned they should know this and willing to talk to sisu providing it's drop a pointless court appeal. Negotiations can only began once appeal has been thrown out.

A deal is there to be done. Sure.

Aren't the costs and appeal heard tomorrow?

 

[Houdi]

Words won't change anything. Actions will. And as the present actions are more litigation which stops any negotiations and also not wanting to pay ACL any money as agreed is there any reason to believe what they are saying?

Exactly words are cheap,actions are what count. If they were truly serious about wanting a fresh start,then the dropping of their hopeless and costly JR appeal,should be their very first step. I believe tomorrow or certainly this week the judge will be awarding costs, and deciding if they can appeal the JR. If they continue down this route, it will be further indication that this statement are just hollow words.

 

[Astute]

The £590,000 has already been paid by the Club into an Escrow Account as per the Football League's instructions, negotiations should start now and when heads of terms are agreed it can be stipulated that Sisu drop the Court Appeal.

The FL'S instructions were for the money to have been paid last month. The money could easily be paid to ACL at any time. But nothing will happen until next month. The appeal could be finished any time SISU want. But it seems that they are still going through the process.

So with the timescale of what SISU are doing there will be no time for negotiations to happen before the start of the season. And then we will have some that blame CCC because they want things cleared up before negotiations.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

The FL'S instructions were for the money to have been paid last month. The money could easily be paid to ACL at any time. But nothing will happen until next month. The appeal could be finished any time SISU want. But it seems that they are still going through the process.

So with the timescale of what SISU are doing there will be no time for negotiations to happen before the start of the season. And then we will have some that blame CCC because they want things cleared up before negotiations.

True enough, but the money has been paid into the account and that's most important.

It needs to happen now! The Club has fulfilled the Football League's requirements, negotiations should now begin, at which point ACL offer Matchday Revenues to the Club and the Club offer to stop the legal action, that way both sides have something to offer the other.

Let's hope it does get sorted, after yesterday it would keep the momentum going..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Samo]

The FL'S instructions were for the money to have been paid last month. The money could easily be paid to ACL at any time. But nothing will happen until next month. The appeal could be finished any time SISU want. But it seems that they are still going through the process.

So with the timescale of what SISU are doing there will be no time for negotiations to happen before the start of the season. And then we will have some that blame CCC because they want things cleared up before negotiations.

Yes that was the FL's instructions but that was before the 2 payments by ex directors surfaced. Nothing will happen until next month because that is when the FL next meet, nothing to do with SISU's timescale. You think things move quickly at CCC, ACL, the FL? Why would SISU cancel the appeal and weaken their position before they have to? That makes no sense at all. Blame SISU for all they have done by all means, I'm right there with you. But you are just being silly.

 

[skybluefred]

1) SISU didn't sell the rights though... and yes the ground is owned by someone else but do they want a tenant or don't they?
2) It seems Joy was right to veto because if they return it will be on a fraction of that rent.

CCFC sold the rights and received above the odds for them. Sisu then bought CCFC and their due diligence should have told them those rights
had been sold on. Years down the line they suddenly demand those rights be returned free of charge, I hope common sense prevails and they
are made to pay a fair premium for them.

F & B rights are just a smoke stream to attempt to distress ACL. Another dismal sisu failure.

 

[lapsed_skyblue]

The FL said for the money to be paid to ACL not an escrow account. It is in some limbo land.
Who controls this money now?
Since the agreement to pay this money was between the "new" owner of CCFC and the FL, it should have nothing to do with the liquidation of the old company.

At this stage ACL should hang on until they have the money or the FL backtrack and release Sisu from having to pay.
Otherwise they run the risk of SISU trying to roll it into any new negotiations.

 

[Samo]

CCFC sold the rights and received above the odds for them. Sisu then bought CCFC and their due diligence should have told them those rights
had been sold on. Years down the line they suddenly demand those rights be returned free of charge, I hope common sense prevails and they
are made to pay a fair premium for them.

F & B rights are just a smoke stream to attempt to distress ACL. Another dismal sisu failure.

Do you know that for a fact?

 

[Kingokings204]

Or call me crazy but sisu don't wait for August 7th meeting and pay ACL 590k and drop the appeal based on agreeing a short term deal for an affordable rent and some match day revenue.

That way no one is putting themselves out and both get best of everything.

 

[Samo]

Or call me crazy but sisu don't wait for August 7th meeting and pay ACL 590k and drop the appeal based on agreeing a short term deal for an affordable rent and some match day revenue.

That way no one is putting themselves out and both get best of everything.

That would be lovely King, but its the nature of their nasty little business that they will not pay a penny more than they need to until the last possible second.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Yeah it is true about the 590k it has been paid so as far as ACL are concerned they should know this and willing to talk to sisu providing it's drop a pointless court appeal. Negotiations can only began once appeal has been thrown out.

A deal is there to be done. Sure.

Aren't the costs and appeal heard tomorrow?

Perhaps that is another carrot that could be dangled if Sisu have to pay costs. Drop the appeal and well pay our own costs.

 

[Kingokings204]

That would be lovely King, but its the nature of their nasty little business that they will not pay a penny more than they need to until the last possible second.

Absolutely true Samo but if we are to believe their open letter then we have to go with they mean it. If they want to come home and make more money and start a relationship with fans this is the way.

As reg says maybe it's another bargaining position. Drop the appeal and we pay our costs or can the 590k included one years rent if signing a 3 year deal say. There are options but one thing is for certain we need to kick off the season in Coventry at the Ricoh. If not forget it.

P.s we don't need to football league to sanction the 590k. Sisu can just pay it and move back.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Can't be done they have a legal obligation to get back any money they can, after all it belongs to all the residents of Coventry not just City Supporters.

Perhaps that is another carrot that could be dangled if Sisu have to pay costs. Drop the appeal and well pay our own costs.

 

[Nick]

The FL said for the money to be paid to ACL not an escrow account. It is in some limbo land.
Who controls this money now?
Since the agreement to pay this money was between the "new" owner of CCFC and the FL, it should have nothing to do with the liquidation of the old company.

At this stage ACL should hang on until they have the money or the FL backtrack and release Sisu from having to pay.
Otherwise they run the risk of SISU trying to roll it into any new negotiations.

Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?

 

[Samo]

Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?

Yes it is.

 

[Astute]

That would be lovely King, but its the nature of their nasty little business that they will not pay a penny more than they need to until the last possible second.

And if our club is to be home before the start of the season the payment will need to be made before the FL tells them how much.

If anything they should pay the 590k and drop the stupid litigation on the understanding that if the FL for some reason decide on a lower amount that the excess gets returned. CCC are not like SISU. They gave SISU a rebate when ACL were owed money so they can't use the line of lack of trust. And it won't make any difference as it is said that the money is being held in an account.

It all comes down to if they really want our club to come home or not.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And if our club is to be home before the start of the season the payment will need to be made before the FL tells them how much.

If anything they should pay the 590k and drop the stupid litigation on the understanding that if the FL for some reason decide on a lower amount that the excess gets returned. CCC are not like SISU. They gave SISU a rebate when ACL were owed money so they can't use the line of lack of trust. And it won't make any difference as it is said that the money is being held in an account.

It all comes down to if they really want our club to come home or not.

Applies both ways.

It's been 'paid' and is waiting for a third party to decide, so why the fuck is it an issue for a stadium management company who claim to have the fans' best interests at heart.

 

[lapsed_skyblue]

Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?

The FL has already stated how much ACL should get. The amount they set may have been derived from the administrator but it was a separate agreement.
SISU are trying to muddy the waters by dragging in other monies that are not relevant. The administration process can only take into account funds that are within the control of the administrator and ACL are entitled to obtain payment of their debt by other means if they can. The guarantor money for example.
Will the FL have the nerve to insist that SISU honour the agreement that they made in order to secure the Golden Share? I'm hoping that the delay is merely because officials have received a complaint from SISU and want to pass the buck up the chain of command.

 

[labrax]

A brave statement from the FL/FA to say they have received £590k in some escrow account for rent arrears via a CVA and it will be down to their digression regarding how much of that will be be paid out. One might think they are getting involved in areas of this dispute they have said has nothing to do with them. Oh, hang on...I'm sure it'll become clearer after their official special board meeting!

 

[Astute]

Applies both ways.

It's been 'paid' and is waiting for a third party to decide, so why the fuck is it an issue for a stadium management company who claim to have the fans' best interests at heart.

Works both ways.

Why the fuck should CCC let SISU have what they want when they are still using litigation against them?

If it wasn't our football club being held to ransom I would want CCC to tell SISU to go get fucked and build themselves a new stadium.

 

[Nick]

The FL has already stated how much ACL should get. The amount they set may have been derived from the administrator but it was a separate agreement.
SISU are trying to muddy the waters by dragging in other monies that are not relevant. The administration process can only take into account funds that are within the control of the administrator and ACL are entitled to obtain payment of their debt by other means if they can. The guarantor money for example.
Will the FL have the nerve to insist that SISU honour the agreement that they made in order to secure the Golden Share? I'm hoping that the delay is merely because officials have received a complaint from SISU and want to pass the buck up the chain of command.

But then acl called in other monies so if it turns out it is un related then the full amount will be paid surely? If it is related then why would they be paid twice? Is then down to the others to chase sisu for what they paid.

Don't think we need to worry too much as there will be no points deduction if the fl are happy it's been paid?

Some people are obsessing a bit aren't they?