Samo
Well-Known Member
Yeh long way to go and could go tits up at any turn. You make valid points but there has to be a starting point somewhere and SISU are running out of time and options.
I really really really really hope you're right.
I remember feeling the same after the last statement from Joy, or the Igwe statement. The thing is, from what we've learned it could be positive at the time of these statements but circumstances change quickly and unpredictably.
Currently, I don't see a way around the F&B revenue issue if a short term deal. I have a hunch it'll have to be either a reduced rent and no F&B in the short term, or a longer term deal, with more security for ACL, that includes some buyout of F&B, if not of a share of ACL.
My cynical hat (which hasn't served me far wrong when it comes to Sisu) says that it's the beginning of a change of tactics, but not a change of goal. The aim now being to bring fan support against ACL as they know they won't give them short term F&B (and therefore the ability to see into ACLs books).
But as I say, I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
Then there is the fact that under the SCMP (ffp doesn't actually apply to league 1, but thats semantics) if the club ever did need to spend more than the 60% they can get around it by injecting cash themselves, the system itself it's almost pointless since it has so many holes.
CCFC said:CCFC would have to negotiate with ACL partner Compass but if after 3 months Compass would not agree access to this level of revenue indicated by ACL, we would ask that the rent be reduced by £100k
CCFC said:I don’t know. [the point about no room to make a profit is related to F&B revenues – the F&B revenues and margins appear to be much lower than at other clubs, e.g. Charlton made £1.8m in League 1)
I think people are kind of missing the point on this statement... Nobody is sussesting its all true that we should be thanking them. We know they lie with every breath and that the F&B argument is bollocks! The reason its good is that its different in tone and is for me, the beginnings of a climb down. No war like rhetoric but talk of reconciliation. Its the statement of a beaten side wanting to talk. I fully expect the money to be paid to ACL sometime on or around the 7th August. Court proceedings to be dropped shortly after and talks to begin shortly after that. Now if they want to use the pie money as a face saver and claim a little victory, that's fine with me as long as we are back in Cov.
They have made their points politely and with the appearance of reason multiple times before admittedly it's not the most common way they have acted, if they are continuing to lie and mislead (which you accept that they are) and have just decided to continue with legal action why is this politeness any reason to believe things are improving? actions are much more important than tone and the actions are lies and more legal action and while this letter is polite it's only been about a week and a half since they were being nasty.
When we actually see some indication they have turned over a new leaf that would be cause for optimism, weasely words and lies are all they've served us over the last couple of years and thats the case weather they are openly spitting in our faces or quietly slipping a knife into our backs.
I guess we will see what action is taken in due course. But let's be realistic, they are not holding a good hand. With no stadium or land to show to us or the FL, how long can they go on like this?
Thats true and that's what we've all been hoping, unforoealing they are suggesting they aren't quite ready to let go yet.
They will continue with whole facade exactly as they have been, including the appeal, until they have meaningful dialogue with ACL. To do otherwise would be to expose their real position and throw their hand altogether. That would leave ACL calling all the shots and themselves impotent at the negotiating table. Here's how I think it will go:
The money is paid to ACL as arranged by the FL.
Sisu: Are f&b revs (in some form) on the table?
Acl: Yes
Acl: Is a withrawl of legals on the table?
Sisu: Yes
Negotiations begin.
Of course it could go wrong at so many points but as I say, it has to start somewhere!
CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?
They will continue with whole facade exactly as they have been, including the appeal, until they have meaningful dialogue with ACL. To do otherwise would be to expose their real position and throw their hand altogether. That would leave ACL calling all the shots and themselves impotent at the negotiating table. Here's how I think it will go:
The money is paid to ACL as arranged by the FL.
Sisu: Are f&b revs (in some form) on the table?
Acl: Yes
Acl: Is a withrawl of legals on the table?
Sisu: Yes
Negotiations begin.
Of course it could go wrong at so many points but as I say, it has to start somewhere!
CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounjds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?
CCC have already said that they won't start talks until the 590k is paid and all litigation has stopped. SISU know where they stand. Sounds like the terms are not negotiable. And who could blame CCC after what has happened so far?
The £590,000 has already been paid by the Club into an Escrow Account as per the Football League's instructions, negotiations should start now and when heads of terms are agreed it can be stipulated that Sisu drop the Court Appeal.
Exactly words are cheap,actions are what count. If they were truly serious about wanting a fresh start,then the dropping of their hopeless and costly JR appeal,should be their very first step. I believe tomorrow or certainly this week the judge will be awarding costs, and deciding if they can appeal the JR. If they continue down this route, it will be further indication that this statement are just hollow words.Words won't change anything. Actions will. And as the present actions are more litigation which stops any negotiations and also not wanting to pay ACL any money as agreed is there any reason to believe what they are saying?
The £590,000 has already been paid by the Club into an Escrow Account as per the Football League's instructions, negotiations should start now and when heads of terms are agreed it can be stipulated that Sisu drop the Court Appeal.
The FL'S instructions were for the money to have been paid last month. The money could easily be paid to ACL at any time. But nothing will happen until next month. The appeal could be finished any time SISU want. But it seems that they are still going through the process.
So with the timescale of what SISU are doing there will be no time for negotiations to happen before the start of the season. And then we will have some that blame CCC because they want things cleared up before negotiations.
The FL'S instructions were for the money to have been paid last month. The money could easily be paid to ACL at any time. But nothing will happen until next month. The appeal could be finished any time SISU want. But it seems that they are still going through the process.
So with the timescale of what SISU are doing there will be no time for negotiations to happen before the start of the season. And then we will have some that blame CCC because they want things cleared up before negotiations.
1) SISU didn't sell the rights though... and yes the ground is owned by someone else but do they want a tenant or don't they?
2) It seems Joy was right to veto because if they return it will be on a fraction of that rent.
CCFC sold the rights and received above the odds for them. Sisu then bought CCFC and their due diligence should have told them those rights
had been sold on. Years down the line they suddenly demand those rights be returned free of charge, I hope common sense prevails and they
are made to pay a fair premium for them.
F & B rights are just a smoke stream to attempt to distress ACL. Another dismal sisu failure.
Or call me crazy but sisu don't wait for August 7th meeting and pay ACL 590k and drop the appeal based on agreeing a short term deal for an affordable rent and some match day revenue.
That way no one is putting themselves out and both get best of everything.
Yeah it is true about the 590k it has been paid so as far as ACL are concerned they should know this and willing to talk to sisu providing it's drop a pointless court appeal. Negotiations can only began once appeal has been thrown out.
A deal is there to be done. Sure.
Aren't the costs and appeal heard tomorrow?
That would be lovely King, but its the nature of their nasty little business that they will not pay a penny more than they need to until the last possible second.
Perhaps that is another carrot that could be dangled if Sisu have to pay costs. Drop the appeal and well pay our own costs.
Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?The FL said for the money to be paid to ACL not an escrow account. It is in some limbo land.
Who controls this money now?
Since the agreement to pay this money was between the "new" owner of CCFC and the FL, it should have nothing to do with the liquidation of the old company.
At this stage ACL should hang on until they have the money or the FL backtrack and release Sisu from having to pay.
Otherwise they run the risk of SISU trying to roll it into any new negotiations.
Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?
That would be lovely King, but its the nature of their nasty little business that they will not pay a penny more than they need to until the last possible second.
And if our club is to be home before the start of the season the payment will need to be made before the FL tells them how much.
If anything they should pay the 590k and drop the stupid litigation on the understanding that if the FL for some reason decide on a lower amount that the excess gets returned. CCC are not like SISU. They gave SISU a rebate when ACL were owed money so they can't use the line of lack of trust. And it won't make any difference as it is said that the money is being held in an account.
It all comes down to if they really want our club to come home or not.
The FL has already stated how much ACL should get. The amount they set may have been derived from the administrator but it was a separate agreement.Isn't the money sat waiting for the fl to decide how much acl should get?
Applies both ways.
It's been 'paid' and is waiting for a third party to decide, so why the fuck is it an issue for a stadium management company who claim to have the fans' best interests at heart.
The FL has already stated how much ACL should get. The amount they set may have been derived from the administrator but it was a separate agreement.
SISU are trying to muddy the waters by dragging in other monies that are not relevant. The administration process can only take into account funds that are within the control of the administrator and ACL are entitled to obtain payment of their debt by other means if they can. The guarantor money for example.
Will the FL have the nerve to insist that SISU honour the agreement that they made in order to secure the Golden Share? I'm hoping that the delay is merely because officials have received a complaint from SISU and want to pass the buck up the chain of command.
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