Open Letter to Supporters (31 Viewers)

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
I think the point is Nick, it’s a thankless task. Hence the “well you do a better job” responses.

It’s a hostile environment with every man and his dog lining up to tell you you’re doing it wrong but when you ask for actual help it’s silent. Everyone’s got an opinion, they’re like arseholes. Problem is people want to whinge, not act. Me included BTW. I did nothing for the Trust while I was a member.

It probably swings too far but you can see where it starts.

Oh I agree, I could understand if I was just " they are wankers" aimlessly. I've taken time to give constructive ideas, I've started doing something to help to then just stop getting replies. I have offered them help with websites, server space, it stuff. I didn't want any thanks or public hand jobs for it, I only mention it when people give it the "what are you doing". I'd have been happy to do it and nobody know publicly I had.

When I searched my emails earlier I even saw an email to Michael in 2013 offering help trying with a recruitment drive for members.

There has been no real willingness to listen.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
Oh I agree, I could understand if I was just " they are wankers" aimlessly. I've taken time to give constructive ideas, I've started doing something to help to then just stop getting replies. I have offered them help with websites, server space, it stuff. I didn't want any thanks or public hand jobs for it, I only mention it when people give it the "what are you doing".

There has been no real willingness to listen.

Yeah I can understand your point. I think having been in charge of shit before it’s easy to just shut off to all feedback as a bunker mentality. Generally though I don’t think the trust are the right place to aim fire at, they’re just fans trying their best. It seemed easy to just go “the Trust should sort it” last time around when there wasn’t much anyone could do.

Seeing it all startup again is so depressing. One thing I thought we all learned last time is that there’s not actually anything anyone but Sisu and their landlords can do. We aren’t financially important enough to Wasps or Sisu and we aren’t politicially important enough to CCC. Thems the facts.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
Yeah I can understand your point. I think having been in charge of shit before it’s easy to just shut off to all feedback as a bunker mentality. Generally though I don’t think the trust are the right place to aim fire at, they’re just fans trying their best. It seemed easy to just go “the Trust should sort it” last time around when there wasn’t much anyone could do.

Seeing it all startup again is so depressing. One thing I thought we all learned last time is that there’s not actually anything anyone but Sisu and their landlords can do. We aren’t financially important enough to Wasps or Sisu and we aren’t politicially important enough to CCC. Thems the facts.

I don't expect the trust to single handedly sort things. I want the passion for ccfc to be drummed up. The "don't mess with ccfc" approach to all parties. Obviously that doesn't mean they are sisu lovers, they would be one of the parties that are being told.

To publicly say how great a wasps match was after months of saying how wrong it is to move teams, what's that about? What would wasps have done if the trust said " moving clubs is wrong".

How would wasps or the council react if in one of the TV interviews the trust put it on them like they do sisu? Both of those know full well they have the public on their side so they can do what they want and just say "sisu" and get away with it.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

riyadhskyblue said:
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing time and time again and expecting a different result.
It's time for an alternative approach, it's time for the Coventry City family to unite and cease the incessant finger pointing and work on how we can stop this situation before it gets out of control.
if there is anybody out there willing to discuss alternative solutions then we should get the ball rolling and do so rather than throwing stones and trying to stand ground over something that is totally immaterial now.

Well let’s break it down. What options do we have? No judgement, just brainstorming:

Actions:
- Social pressure (media, marching, etc)
- Financial pressure (boycotts)
- Legal pressure (IANAL so not sure what, things like making the Ricoh a community asset and leasehold details fall in here)
- Politicial pressure (organise vote against CCC, write to MPs)
- Violence (beat up Tim, kidnap councillors kids)

And we have three actors we can aim at: Sisu/CCFC, Council, Wasps

I think we’d all agree Violence is out. Politicial and social pressures were tried to no avail last time and the actors haven’t changed.

We could boycott CCFC but that doesn’t seem to impact them. Neither Wasps not CCC see us as a big enough cohort to significantly impact them financially AFAICT.

Which leaves legal pressure. I can download the lease from Land Registry and post up for people with more knowledge to comb through. Does anyone know relevant laws that might apply?

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
Well let’s break it down. What options do we have? No judgement, just brainstorming:

Actions:
- Social pressure (media, marching, etc)
- Financial pressure (boycotts)
- Legal pressure (IANAL so not sure what, things like making the Ricoh a community asset and leasehold details fall in here)
- Politicial pressure (organise vote against CCC, write to MPs)
- Violence (beat up Tim, kidnap councillors kids)

And we have three actors we can aim at: Sisu/CCFC, Council, Wasps

I think we’d all agree Violence is out. Politicial and social pressures were tried to no avail last time and the actors haven’t changed.

We could boycott CCFC but that doesn’t seem to impact them. Neither Wasps not CCC see us as a big enough cohort to significantly impact them financially AFAICT.

Which leaves legal pressure. I can download the lease from Land Registry and post up for people with more knowledge to comb through. Does anyone know relevant laws that might apply?

What was tried against CCC and Wasps though? There hasn't been so much as calling them out has there? Wasps move was endorsed from the start, gave Wasps a green light to do what they want and know they had the main ccfc fans group on their side.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
I don't expect the trust to single handedly sort things. I want the passion for ccfc to be drummed up. The "don't mess with ccfc" approach to all parties. Obviously that doesn't mean they are sisu lovers, they would be one of the parties that are being told.

To publicly say how great a wasps match was after months of saying how wrong it is to move teams, what's that about? What would wasps have done if the trust said " moving clubs is wrong".

How would wasps or the council react if in one of the TV interviews the trust put it on them like they do sisu? Both of those know full well they have the public on their side so they can do what they want and just say "sisu" and get away with it.

I guess I’m just saying, they were the people willing to put themselves forward and they did the best they could with the information and resources available as we all do.

I think any fans group is doomed as the fans aren’t united on the issue. And a movement divided is a failed movement.

I disagree with a lot they did, but I also know they were privy to things I wasn’t. And that I wasn’t willing to get out there and do better.

If we want to do better it’ll be by actually doing it and not expecting others to is my point I guess.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 7, 2018

ccfctommy said:
The trust could communicate a bit better. Their statement only appears on Cov Mad. No link to it on their Twitter page, no link to it on their Facebook page.

Personally I'll wait until it turns up in the official places, before I believe it *is* a Trust statement, and not just made up!

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
What was tried against CCC and Wasps though? There hasn't been so much as calling them out has there? Wasps move was endorsed from the start, gave Wasps a green light to do what they want and know they had the main ccfc fans group on their side.

Well Wasps weren’t an actor last time really. But what can we try? I maintain we aren’t a big enough group to impact them significantly. Open to be proven wrong.

The council had people running against them, protests, Les Reid working over time. None of it made a scratch.

Progress starts with honesty about our situation and the fact is not enough people in Coventry would change their vote or their rugby habits over CCFC.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
I guess I’m just saying, they were the people willing to put themselves forward and they did the best they could with the information and resources available as we all do.

I think any fans group is doomed as the fans aren’t united on the issue. And a movement divided is a failed movement.

I disagree with a lot they did, but I also know they were privy to things I wasn’t. And that I wasn’t willing to get out there and do better.

If we want to do better it’ll be by actually doing it and not expecting others to is my point I guess.

I pointed out that people will only unite by making things about love for CCFC. Thats when people mostly agree, it's what every city fan has in common.

What use is the actual trust then if people should just do it themselves? Who are the trust representing every time they speak to the press?

skybluetony176 · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
I meant followed up as in more than a letter or the same thing. Will you hear the trust say a bad word against wasps or the council? I don't mean silly abuse, I mean actually calling them out on things.

By following up, I clearly didn't mean an open letter every couple of months along the same lines. Petrified to say anything slightly negative about anybody else.

Like I said, it clearly is just box ticking to say they have "put pressure on everybody". When they start actually calling others out then I'll be wrong.

They publicly endorsed wasps and called one of their games a great sporting occasion for Christ sake. I'm not saying call Eastwood names, at least mention the elephant in the room while they are at it. Why not mention the higgs situation with the academy?

Why not call out the council on the statements they made about the sale? Say that it isn't about benefiting sisu it's about keeping ccfc safe as promimised. Why would they let that slide after they have bullshitted it?

Yep Nick is never wrong so he starts casting his net wider.

I showed you what you said, I pointed out why you were wrong and I predicted you’d do what you’re doing now.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
Well Wasps weren’t an actor last time really. But what can we try? I maintain we aren’t a big enough group to impact them significantly. Open to be proven wrong.

The council had people running against them, protests, Les Reid working over time. None of it made a scratch.

Progress starts with honesty about our situation and the fact is not enough people in Coventry would change their vote or their rugby habits over CCFC.

No, I meant more when Wasps came here. Imagine if the trust said "No, we don't agree with moving clubs" and made a stand rather than "it was a great sporting occasion"?

As soon as The Trust backed Wasps over that, Wasps knew how easy it was to bullshit. Then there was the higgs, there was rumblings of a protest against Wasps about it. Trust went to a meeting with Wasps and nothing was ever said about it again and it was back to "Its your fault SISU".

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Yep Nick is never wrong so he starts casting his net wider.

I showed you what you said, I pointed out why you were wrong and I predicted you’d do what you’re doing now.

I just thought it would be obvious writing a soft open letter every couple of months wouldn't really count as actually "following it up"?

It would be a start if they could bring themselves to say something negative towards either of them. If they actually stepped it up against other parties then fair play, not just keep writing open letters asking them politely to let us stay there.

If you want bare faced lies about the trust, speak to LAST or CJ.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
I pointed out that people will only unite by making things about love for CCFC. Thats when people mostly agree, it's what every city fan has in common.

What use is the actual trust then if people should just do it themselves? Who are the trust representing every time they speak to the press?

While I’m pessimistic about the Trusts impact as an organising force, there are some benefits. They are the official body, they have the ear of the Press and alliances with other fans groups in different clubs through official supporters bodies. I believe they also have special legal status.

So to answer the question I guess it’s about do we have a use for those talents. Do we have a strategy? Otherwise, yes it is just a bunch of people trying whatever they think.

They polled their members a lot last time and publicised the results, I guess that’s the best you can hope for in terms of a representative voice on a divided issue.

skybluetony176 · Dec 7, 2018

usskyblue said:
Take a breath m8. Your argument with Nick is pure self indulgence on both of your parts.

You’re right. The Trust can’t represent everyone 100%...but an effort to engage the less (shall we say) hardcore SISU OUT mob might have been wise? I’m not suggesting the club wouldn’t be better off with different owners, but it seemed the the core of the Trust didn’t represent a large group of people that saw blame in multiple areas, not just one.

The problem isn’t people seeing blame in all areas. The problem seems to be when people see SISU as the main protagonists. Which they are. Some people have twisted that into no one is to blame but SISU. With the exception of a few crack pots on the telegraph no one has ever said no other parties are to blame.

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
Well let’s break it down. What options do we have? No judgement, just brainstorming:

Actions:
- Social pressure (media, marching, etc)
- Financial pressure (boycotts)
- Legal pressure (IANAL so not sure what, things like making the Ricoh a community asset and leasehold details fall in here)
- Politicial pressure (organise vote against CCC, write to MPs)
- Violence (beat up Tim, kidnap councillors kids)

And we have three actors we can aim at: Sisu/CCFC, Council, Wasps

I think we’d all agree Violence is out. Politicial and social pressures were tried to no avail last time and the actors haven’t changed.

We could boycott CCFC but that doesn’t seem to impact them. Neither Wasps not CCC see us as a big enough cohort to significantly impact them financially AFAICT.

Which leaves legal pressure. I can download the lease from Land Registry and post up for people with more knowledge to comb through. Does anyone know relevant laws that might apply?

While Wasps might not see us as big enough to impact them financially, although despite them saying that publicly its highly debatable - our value to them is not just in terms of money CCFC hand over to them, what we have seen is they fear protest and negative publicity. That is why I believe they need to be the target.

At the end of the day every supporter, even those that only turn up for Wembley, want the club to still exist next season. Everything else should be put on hold and achieving that should be the focus. The most likely route is Wasps changing their stance, therefore apply pressure to them. People have suggested on here ways to do it without impacting Wasps supporters or their games.

Lets face it we've done everything people can think of against SISU and its had no impact whatsoever. Pointless wasting time focusing on them again. Once we know we will still have a club next season attention can turn back to them.

stupot07 · Dec 7, 2018

Captain Dart said:
This is what the Council have to say. It is perfectly accurate for them to say a solution is possible provided SISU drop the legal action. Just what is the point of it because it will fail.

Its bollocks though isn't it?! If the assurances on the future of Coventry only ever applied for the 4 year deal then the assurances for Cov Rugby were Completely worthless. Just shows it was empty rhetoric to try and dodge any real scrutiny from people of Coventry.

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Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
While I’m pessimistic about the Trusts impact as an organising force, there are some benefits. They are the official body, they have the ear of the Press and alliances with other fans groups in different clubs through official supporters bodies. I believe they also have special legal status.

So to answer the question I guess it’s about do we have a use for those talents. Do we have a strategy? Otherwise, yes it is just a bunch of people trying whatever they think.

They polled their members a lot last time and publicised the results, I guess that’s the best you can hope for in terms of a representative voice on a divided issue.

I searched earlier, no poll (I could see) for a while.

Yep, they can go to the press. What would Wasps say if they said anything bad about them? What if they said "The council made this statement, its turned out its a lie" on bbc news?

The council and Wasps are far too comfortable living off hate for SISU. It was shown when our fans group who had spent nearly 2 years protesting about us moving endorsed one of their first games when they moved here.

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
The problem isn’t people seeing blame in all areas. The problem seems to be when people see SISU as the main protagonists. Which they are. Some people have twisted that into no one is to blame but SISU. With the exception of a few crack pots on the telegraph no one has ever said no other parties are to blame.

But its not about who is to blame, its about ensuring there is a club to support not season.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

stupot07 said:
Its bollocks though isn't it?! If the assurances on the future of Coventry only ever applied for the 4 year deal then the assurances for Cov Rugby were Completely worthless. Just shows it was empty rhetoric to try and dodge any real scrutiny from people of Coventry.

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This is what I am saying the Trust should be calling out. Ask what it actually meant, what security is there and was there? What does it mean even after SISU one day hopefully?

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
No, I meant more when Wasps came here. Imagine if the trust said "No, we don't agree with moving clubs" and made a stand rather than "it was a great sporting occasion"?

As soon as The Trust backed Wasps over that, Wasps knew how easy it was to bullshit. Then there was the higgs, there was rumblings of a protest against Wasps about it. Trust went to a meeting with Wasps and nothing was ever said about it again and it was back to "Its your fault SISU".

We’re back to the division again. I know many feel strongly about Wasps, but many don’t care or see it as a positive for the city. And for many the city comes above the City.

I’m still of the belief that last time around Sisu were in the wrong but there’s no point rerunning last time. New actors, new circumstances. Wasps are directly involved as landlords this time and specific promises were made by the council. Those are good starting points.

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2018

stupot07 said:
Its bollocks though isn't it?! If the assurances on the future of Coventry only ever applied for the 4 year deal then the assurances for Cov Rugby were Completely worthless. Just shows it was empty rhetoric to try and dodge any real scrutiny from people of Coventry.

Exactly, what they are saying now is that they had so little trust in Wasps that they had to seek assurances that they would honour an existing contract. That puts them up there with SISU so if that was the case why would the council sell to them.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

chiefdave said:
While Wasps might not see us as big enough to impact them financially, although despite them saying that publicly its highly debatable - our value to them is not just in terms of money CCFC hand over to them, what we have seen is they fear protest and negative publicity. That is why I believe they need to be the target.

At the end of the day every supporter, even those that only turn up for Wembley, want the club to still exist next season. Everything else should be put on hold and achieving that should be the focus. The most likely route is Wasps changing their stance, therefore apply pressure to them. People have suggested on here ways to do it without impacting Wasps supporters or their games.

Lets face it we've done everything people can think of against SISU and its had no impact whatsoever. Pointless wasting time focusing on them again. Once we know we will still have a club next season attention can turn back to them.

I think that’s a fair shout. We don’t know how Wasps would react and they are a potentially weak link. I still suspect they can make a calculated decision to ignore us, but it’s worth a try.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
We’re back to the division again. I know many feel strongly about Wasps, but many don’t care or see it as a positive for the city. And for many the city comes above the City.

I’m still of the belief that last time around Sisu were in the wrong but there’s no point rerunning last time. New actors, new circumstances. Wasps are directly involved as landlords this time and specific promises were made by the council. Those are good starting points.

How is it division though to say that moving clubs is wrong when Wasps do it? How is it division to not blow smoke up their arse?

Agree about the promises made, quite easy to just get the quotes from then. Compare what is said now and ask what is going on.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
I think that’s a fair shout. We don’t know how Wasps would react and they are a potentially weak link. I still suspect they can make a calculated decision to ignore us, but it’s worth a try.

While I don't expect (or agree) with invading their pitch, abusing their actual fans etc. At least not pandering to them would be a start.

They need to see they can't sit there comfy knowing it takes more than saying "it woz SISU" to do whatever they want. The council can just openly make things up, they know they have enough public backing to get away with anything as they arent SISU.

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
We’re back to the division again. I know many feel strongly about Wasps, but many don’t care or see it as a positive for the city. And for many the city comes above the City.

You can be the biggest Wasps fan in the city, doesn't have to follow that you're happy to see the football club go under.

The reasons you state are exactly why I suggested the trust should be pushing other angles such as the work Sky Blues in the Community does and the economic benefits of having a football team.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
I searched earlier, no poll (I could see) for a while.

Yep, they can go to the press. What would Wasps say if they said anything bad about them? What if they said "The council made this statement, its turned out its a lie" on bbc news?

The council and Wasps are far too comfortable living off hate for SISU. It was shown when our fans group who had spent nearly 2 years protesting about us moving endorsed one of their first games when they moved here.

I’ll take your word on the poll. I thought I remembered more, but my memory is shocking.

I guess I’m saying that we aren’t about to unite the fan base on the Sisu/Council divide. So what can we do as a small, targeted group that is effective?

And I do feel strongly that right now has to be day 0. Take all sides on what they do from here on out, it’s the only way to even start moving towards consensus.

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon · Dec 7, 2018

stupot07 said:
Its bollocks though isn't it?! If the assurances on the future of Coventry only ever applied for the 4 year deal then the assurances for Cov Rugby were Completely worthless. Just shows it was empty rhetoric to try and dodge any real scrutiny from people of Coventry.

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I'm not sure what they could realistically have set as a term of the deal with Wasps to indefinitely safeguard CCFC so it was always an empty statement. If you consider it from Coventy Rugby's perspective it's even worse. How can the Council possibly have said that moving a bigger club into the city wasn't going to negatively impact on CRFC? If they ever get into the top flight they'll be up against another top flight side in the same city sapping their attendances.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2018

chiefdave said:
You can be the biggest Wasps fan in the city, doesn't have to follow that you're happy to see the football club go under.

The reasons you state are exactly why I suggested the trust should be pushing other angles such as the work Sky Blues in the Community does and the economic benefits of having a football team.

This was specific to when Wasps first arrived. As I say up thread, new circumstances and the threat to the club is different. We were promised no danger last time by all sides, we had potential buyers on the scene (however ridiculous) and the situation was IMHO less clear cut.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
I'm not sure what they could realistically have set as a term of the deal with Wasps to indefinitely safeguard CCFC so it was always an empty statement. If you consider it from Coventy Rugby's perspective it's even worse. How can the Council possibly have said that moving a bigger club into the city wasn't going to negatively impact on CRFC? If they ever get into the top flight they'll be up against another top flight side in the same city sapping their attendances.

So it was purely just said to mislead councillors voting and to appease the city fans who might speak up against it? Yet they can openly say it was bollocks and know full well because they arent SISU they can.

NortonSkyBlue · Dec 7, 2018

Thank you Shmmeee for being constructive.
Both Coventry City and Wasps have similar issues aside from hedge fund owners.
Both are playing in front of reduced gates, both are separate organizations with few shared resources and shared marketing.
Both are under pressure to keep overheads down.
We are told there is good relations between the hierarchies at both clubs.
In my opinion there are opportunities to accentuate and bring the two clubs together as co existing organizations in the same city.
Wasps will be under severe pressure to keep our club at the Ricoh and possibly it could back fire on them if they follow through with their threat. They drew their line in the sand and feel they can't reverse it. I get that.
Our owners have proven themselves to be intransigent time and time again and I can't see that changing.
Rather than targeting Wasps with bile I would suggest that a concerted campaign of reminding them that they share the city's resources with our club and we want them to be reasonable to the fans of Coventry City, the club and the team and separate what is happening with our owners.
A different and inclusive approach of bombarding them with a campaign that this is our city, share it don't destroy us. A plea yes targeting goodwill.
A daily campaign.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
I guess I’m just saying, they were the people willing to put themselves forward and they did the best they could with the information and resources available as we all do.

Agree with much of that.

I think any fans group is doomed as the fans aren’t united on the issue. And a movement divided is a failed movement.

Maybe or, flipping it, we need a leader to unite behind. Not everybody would agree who, but I always thought Bobby Gould would be a decent figurehead - Cov Kid, passion for the club, when he spoke on the radio last time you'd have followed him just because he was moved so much. Can appreciate mad as a box of frogs so potentially a loose cannon but hell, all movements have to find their Farage (wrong politics for me, but the effect on a movement is what I'm getting at!) before they get going, we're no different. After a terrible mistimed start to the Northampton stuff, the Trust seem to have fallen into that catch-22 of being design by committee - that never ends well! I appreciate it's hard for a Trust to carry things through *without* doing that, but that's where a figurehead maybe comes in, the unite behind, and stop us talking the finer points of which colour jumper to wear when delivering a really stern letter?

I disagree with a lot they did, but I also know they were privy to things I wasn’t. And that I wasn’t willing to get out there and do better.

Fair enough, and I do get where you're coming from. I guess the issue is battling against what's gone before. The name comes with a certain baggage, much as CCFC, SISU, CCC, Wasps all do too for that matter. Before the Trust was reformed I offered help to be met with total silence... not even a rejection, and as they were then complaining nobody offered help I found it a bit rich! Different people, different entity(!) now and I appreciate should be a fresh start, but still in the back of my mind. Some recent Trust people have also tried to involve others, and that's to their credit and, tbh, whenever I've met people involved with the Trust they've seemed to genuinely have the club at heart first.

If we want to do better it’ll be by actually doing it and not expecting others to is my point I guess.

I agree. What do we do? Formulate some plans, timings, and what resources are needed to put them into practice? I don't mean me with this btw(!) but the unfortunate thing is those who could possibly be very helpful, are those without the free time to be as helpful as they maybe could be.

Ultimately, I've just done a load of typing here with no end result. Same old same old, eh!

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon · Dec 7, 2018

Nick said:
So it was purely just said to mislead councillors voting and to appease the city fans who might speak up against it? Yet they can openly say it was bollocks and know full well because they arent SISU they can.

It was an empty assurance made for political reasons at the time and is just as easily tossed aside now. They can now revert to saying 'it's not our fault SISU are cocks and have driven Wasps away from the table'. I must admit that I'm not sure on what the council could/should have done with the Ricoh at the time (doesn't really matter any more either I suppose) but it's pretty blatant that the assurances given about CCFC and CRFC were not credible from the start.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
I’ll take your word on the poll. I thought I remembered more, but my memory is shocking.

I guess I’m saying that we aren’t about to unite the fan base on the Sisu/Council divide. So what can we do as a small, targeted group that is effective?

And I do feel strongly that right now has to be day 0. Take all sides on what they do from here on out, it’s the only way to even start moving towards consensus.

First thing is make it about love for CCFC or something everybody agrees on. It's all well and good saying "we stand together with the ccfc community" whilst some of them are boycotting games. How can people unite behind that?

Said earlier, it needs the trust to bust a few myths (sisu is taking all my ticket money, explain in detail how people like boddy are helpless and wasps and the council know this full well). People need a bit of educating with it all, theres so much hearsay and spin (Saw it earlier in this thread) that people believe.

People need to be proud to be a CCFC fan, first and foremost without thinking it makes them sisu lovers.

Nick · Dec 7, 2018

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
It was an empty assurance made for political reasons at the time and is just as easily tossed aside now. They can now revert to saying 'it's not our fault SISU are cocks and have driven Wasps away from the table'. I must admit that I'm not sure on what the council could/should have done with the Ricoh at the time (doesn't really matter any more either I suppose) but it's pretty blatant that the assurances given about CCFC and CRFC were not credible from the start.

At least call them out on it, ask them what it means for the club even beyond SISU if Wasps have the lease for 240 odd more years. Will we always be at the mercy of them? Ask them why they misled fans, voters and tax payers. The trust cant do anything without pointing out fisher and his stadium, why not take that approach with others?

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon · Dec 7, 2018

riyadhskyblue said:
A different and inclusive approach of bombarding them with a campaign that this is our city, share it don't destroy us. A plea yes targeting goodwill.
A daily campaign.

Seems sensible to me. Has to be an appeal from a position of very little leverage and aimed at their 'better nature'. I'm not convinced it will work but I'm even more certain that slinging insults at them wouldn't either. I think the biggest danger for CCFC is that Wasps see distressing us as a key way of hurting their enemy, SISU. As has been pointed out countless times before, I doubt SISU care for the fans of CCFC, but they may care for the hole in their balance sheet if the asset liquidates.

Just to clear, I'm not at all supportive of Wasps refusing to negotiate, just saying this is why I think they'll continue to refuse. It might all come down to whoever blinks first.

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