Palmer (2 Viewers)

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Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
It's not complicated though is it? The thread you quoted was looking ahead. I was wrong. I'll get over it, I reckon.

Looking at things that happened, Palmer, like Allen, had to play too much with Godden and O'Hare out and got injured .

Palmer showed enough to make obvious he's a better footballer than Allen. Both have a use in the squad next season.
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was Palmer a more banging signing than this one?

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Tayo Adaramola First Words - CONFIRMED Signing!

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Palmer is rarely fit, we’ve seen that all his career. He’s a liability off the ball but can be fantastic on it. He will have a role as a squad player behind Allen, O’hare and another signing hopefully.
 
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Presumably we're just writing O'Hare off as injury prone and never fit now as well then?
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
It's bollocks about off the ball though.
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It isn’t, you probably like it because he runs around like a headless chicken and dives in a lot.

He regularly fails to pick up a man and consistently manages to look busy without being effective in the press. It’s no wonder that criticism has been levelled at him by every manager he’s ever had.

He works next to Allen because Allen drops into midfield and effectively leaves us with 2 strikers defensively. When palmer played behind 2 strikers, we were desperately over run a bit like the first half on Tuesday with Maguire.

See Bristol City and Wrexham at home for examples of this.
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Except he has more...

Tackles
Interceptions
Blocks
Clearances

...than Allen and O'Hare.
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Great, now look at his positioning off the ball when we’re sitting deep. Now look at his defensive actions in the opposition final third. Now look at the goals we have conceded whereby he’s not got tight enough on a thrower or crosser.

Now look at his ability to play behind 2 strikers in the same way Allen and O’hare have shown.

Or do your stats not tell you that?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Boosh said:
Great, now look at his positioning off the ball when we’re sitting deep. Now look at his defensive actions in the opposition final third. Now look at the goals we have conceded whereby he’s not got tight enough on a thrower or crosser.

Now look at his ability to play behind 2 strikers in the same way Allen and O’hare have shown.

Or do your stats not tell you that?
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You said he's not effective in the press. I've just listed a number of stats which show he clearly is.

Show me all these goals where he's lost his man. I'd like to see them.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
He was brought in to solve a problem in our final third play, if you want a defensive workhorse when you’ve got 9 other more defensive players on the pitch then sure. Not someone to have to sit tight and hold what you’ve got. But there were times last season where it looked like we had no idea how to unlock defences and that’s what he brings.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
It's bollocks about off the ball though.
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For me it's not the lack of work rate, it's the lack of smart work rate. He will chase the ball 50 yards unnecessarily sprinting to close the keeper down, or throw himself in to a tackle on a fullback in the final third to concede a throwing. That gets the crowd going, and adds to his stats

But when we lose the ball and the opposition have a bit of possession, instead of getting back into shape, closing down space or passing lines, etc, he stands up front watching.

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stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
He was brought in to solve a problem in our final third play, if you want a defensive workhorse when you’ve got 9 other more defensive players on the pitch then sure. Not someone to have to sit tight and hold what you’ve got. But there were times last season where it looked like we had no idea how to unlock defences and that’s what he brings.
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I honestly think he was brought in as we were going to sell O'Hare to Burnley but he got injured first.

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Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
For me it's not the lack of work rate, it's the lack of smart work rate. He will chase the ball 50 yards unnecessarily sprinting to close the keeper down, or throw himself in to a tackle on a fullback in the final third to concede a throwing. That gets the crowd going, and adds to his stats

But when we lose the ball and the opposition have a bit of possession, instead of getting back into shape, closing down space or passing lines, etc, he stands up front watching.

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Exactly but ‘Nick’ and ‘Smart’ don’t go together. He wants aimless running and stupid fouls
 
N

napolimp

Well-Known Member
Clearly it took him a while to reach match fitness this season, and now he's out for the rest of the season. I still think he should be given a full season, it is not said that he will pick up some long term injury. I also believe he links up with Gyok in a way that both Allen and Godden fail to do, plus he's a powerful player. Don't see the need to write him off at this stage.
 
Greggs

Greggs

Well-Known Member
Took 4 months to get fit, earned his astronomical wage for roughly a month, out for 4 months. Top signing!!
 
N

napolimp

Well-Known Member
Boosh said:
He isn’t, to me the press surrounds trapping the opposition and forcing a turnover in possession. That doesn’t need to be an interception or tackle. Allen rarely tackles yet no one can deny he’s extremely effective in the press.

Goals where palmer lost his man off the top of my head:

Luton (h) loses man off a throw
Bristol city (h) he is nowhere when Bristol are in possession in our half
Wrexham (h) first goal he was wandering aimlessly in midfield marking no one

I’m sure there are more if I wanted to put myself through the torture of rewatching the goals we’ve conceded
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They were clearly zonal marking against Luton, not man to man, so didn't lose anyone - although that was a lazy outstretched leg for the deflection. And that's a bit of a stretch blaming him for the goal against Bristol.
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
He's not a centre half. He's a number 10.

You were on about off the ball, I just said it was incorrect as he does some good stuff off the ball.
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Number 10’s defensive ability can be crucial in the modern game. He does some good stuff if you like aimless running and ridiculous slide tackles which you do. I prefer Allen’s tactical defensive work
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
napolimp said:
They were clearly zonal marking against Luton, not man to man, so didn't lose anyone - although that was a lazy outstretched leg for the deflection. And that's a bit of a stretch blaming him for the goal against Bristol.
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The goal against Bristol highlights his defensive issues, most people can’t see it as they’re ball watching. If you spend 45 mins keeping an eye on palmer, that exact scenario repeats itself
 
COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Took 4 months to get fit, earned his astronomical wage for roughly a month, out for 4 months. Top signing!!
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We do have a knack of signing unfit players.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Boosh said:
Luton (h) loses man off a throw
Bristol city (h) he is nowhere when Bristol are in possession in our half
Wrexham (h) first goal he was wandering aimlessly in midfield marking no one
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Luton - JWE steps out loses his man, not Palmer, he's closing the cross down.
Bristol City - your guy Allen gets done like an absolute kipper
Wrexham - absolutely laughable to put even a hint of blame on Palmer for this :ROFLMAO:

Unless you want 11 men behind the ball at all times then these are 3 awful examples.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Boosh said:
The goal against Bristol highlights his defensive issues, most people can’t see it as they’re ball watching. If you spend 45 mins keeping an eye on palmer, that exact scenario repeats itself
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The one where Allen also got turned inside out and lost his man originally, a poor header from both Doyle and Panzo but it's just Palmer's fault?
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Luton - JWE steps out loses his man, not Palmer, he's closing the cross down.
Bristol City - your guy Allen gets done like an absolute kipper
Wrexham - absolutely laughable to put even a hint of blame on Palmer for this :ROFLMAO:

Unless you want 11 men behind the ball at all times then these are 3 awful examples.
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Yes because Palmer should always be furthest man forward shouldn’t he
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Presumably we're just writing O'Hare off as injury prone and never fit now as well then?
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Over the last 3 seasons (for fair comparison):

O'Hare has managed 111 Championship appearances, starting 94 of them and completing 90 minutes more often than not.

Palmer's record is poor in comparison:

70 appearances, 38 starts:

This season: 19 starts, completed 90 minutes in 9 of them
Last season: 1 start, completed 90 minutes 0 times
20/21: 18 starts, completed 90 minutes once.

Some of the omissions are down to him falling out with Pearson but he's clearly not somebody than can be relied upon in the same way, until two freak injuries this season, O'Hare was.
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
It's a very deep stretch to try and blame him for that Bristol goal.
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It’s not, it’s a pattern of play that regularly happens when Palmer is in a three man midfield. I would say keep an eye out for it but it will be some time before we see him again. I’ll bump this next season
 
Boosh

Boosh

Well-Known Member
As a final point I will say I’m not blaming Palmer solely for them goals, I was asked to show examples of Palmer struggling with his defensive positioning particularly in a 3. I have shown it happening and leading to a goal in back to back games. That is the weakness myself, other posters and his previous managers are talking about. Not his ability to tackle or run around.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Luton - JWE steps out loses his man, not Palmer, he's closing the cross down.
Bristol City - your guy Allen gets done like an absolute kipper
Wrexham - absolutely laughable to put even a hint of blame on Palmer for this

Unless you want 11 men behind the ball at all times then these are 3 awful examples.
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Wilson-Esbrand didn't play against Wrexham.

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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Boosh said:
As a final point I will say I’m not blaming Palmer solely for them goals, I was asked to show examples of Palmer struggling with his defensive positioning particularly in a 3. I have shown it happening and leading to a goal in back to back games. That is the weakness myself, other posters and his previous managers are talking about. Not his ability to tackle or run around.
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No you've posted three goals that Palmer is on the pitch for and said he's lost his man.

Could do the same for just about any goal with just about any player.
 
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