Parking next season (3 Viewers)

[theferret]

Really the smart money says otherwise "

Oh and from now on the "smart money " is definitely
Not the pound !

The markets are politically neutral and are just reacting to uncertainty. That uncertainty will go away over time - they'll be a short term wobble and perhaps a shallow recession - but long term there is no reason why the UK cannot flourish with a negotiated free trade arrangement and with the shackles very much off in terms of trading with the rest of the world - just as Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea and many others do without the need for pooling sovereignty with their neigbours.

As for the pound - it is currently at 1.23 against the Euro. In 2008 it bottomed out at 1.03. It is now back to the level of 2014. It may fall further, but it's unlikely to get close to the 2008 level - and the country didn't exactly collapse at that time - it recovered and will again. Besides, the weakening of the pound will give a potential boost to manufacturing and exports.

 

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[Brylowes]

The markets are politically neutral and are just reacting to uncertainty. That uncertainty will go away over time - they'll be a short term wobble and perhaps a shallow recession - but long term there is no reason why the UK cannot flourish with a negotiated free trade arrangement and with the shackles very much off in terms of trading with the rest of the world - just as Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea and many others do without the need for pooling sovereignty with their neigbours.

As for the pound - it is currently at 1.23 against the Euro. In 2008 it bottomed out at 1.03. It is now back to the level of 2014. It may fall further, but it's unlikely to get close to the 2008 level - and the country didn't exactly collapse at that time - it recovered and will again. Besides, the weakening of the pound will give a potential boost to manufacturing and exports.

We moved away from manufacturing long ago in favour of financial services, deregulation of
The banking system gave them the freedom to gamble with the economy and they lost, well
no actually we lost. You think we've recovered from 08 , well I suppose that would depend
on where your looking from, for most ordinary people I don't think so.

We are now dependent on importing more than two thirds of the goods and produce' we
We need to go about our lives in a normal way . A low pound will as you say encourage
exports, because we will be selling very cheaply, but we are a country who relies
heavily on imported goods and a weak pound will ensure we pay through the nose for
them.

The fact is there are many issues involved in EU membership, both good and bad,
but a huge proportion of our population just voted us out based on one issue only
IMMIGRATION !

 

[Kingokings204]

We moved away from manufacturing long ago in favour of financial services, deregulation of
The banking system gave them the freedom to gamble with the economy and they lost, well
no actually we lost. You think we've recovered from 08 , well I suppose that would depend
on where your looking from, for most ordinary people I don't think so.

We are now dependent on importing more than two thirds of the goods and produce' we
We need to go about our lives in a normal way . A low pound will as you say encourage
exports, because we will be selling very cheaply, but we are a country who relies
heavily on imported goods and a weak pound will ensure we pay through the nose for
them.

The fact is there are many issues involved in EU membership, both good and bad,
but a huge proportion of our population just voted us out based on one issue only
IMMIGRATION !

Immigration won the referendum I completely agree. Real people care about jobs and housing and gp appointments not how the ftse100 and the euro is doing I would suggest.

 

[Brylowes]

Immigration won the referendum I completely agree. Real people care about jobs and housing and gp appointments not how the ftse100 and the euro is doing I would suggest.

Hence the reason, a decision of this magnitude with so many potential
serious repercussions and pitfalls should never have been handed to
the country.
Bo Jo led a campaign he neither believes in or agree's with, all about
his own agenda and blind ambition. Shameful.

 

[Grendel]

Hence the reason, a decision of this magnitude with so many potential
serious repercussions and pitfalls should never have been handed to
the country.
Bo Jo led a campaign he neither believes in or agree's with, all about
his own agenda and blind ambition. Shameful.

Remind me - how did we enter the EU in the first place?

 

[Brylowes]

Remind me - how did we enter the EU in the first place?

How is that relevant?

 

[Grendel]

How is that relevant?

Was entering the Eu a decision of magnitude?

 

[Brylowes]

Was entering the Eu a decision of magnitude?

It was 43 years ago , like I say how is it relevant to a decision made today?

 

[Grendel]

It was 43 years ago , like I say how is it relevant to a decision made today?

Because the same process decided to join as decided to leave. The people of the UK made both decisions so if you accept one you accept the other.

Democracy is a wonderful thing surely?

 

[Brylowes]

Because the same process decided to join as decided to leave. The people of the UK made both decisions so if you accept one you accept the other.

Democracy is a wonderful thing surely?

A completely different time , back then people took more interest in politics, the
working class were 'well" working class. Things have changed beyond recognition'
Arguments from both parties would have been put forward and explained to the
electorate, debated on TV and slightly biased newspapers would try to influence
Your thoughts.

Now a massive " under class " has been created that have no interest whatsoever,
And are far more interested in celebrity culture, The media is now so unbelievably
Biased that we end up with what Rupert Murdoch wants.

Hardlly feels like democracy at all .

 

[Grendel]

A completely different time , back then people took more interest in politics, the
working class were 'well" working class. Things have changed beyond recognition'
Arguments from both parties would have been put forward and explained to the
electorate, debated on TV and slightly biased newspapers would try to influence
Your thoughts.

Now a massive " under class " has been created that have no interest whatsoever,
And are far more interested in celebrity culture, The media is now so unbelievably
Biased that we end up with what Rupert Murdoch wants.

Hardlly feels like democracy at all .

So you don't believe in democracy then?

People can vote as long as they are intelligent enough to believe what you believe.

Interesting thought process.

The working class could think for themselves 43 years ago. Now they are scum and are not allowed a voice.

Yes you are a true Europhile. Screw the masses and make them do as I say.

 

[SkyBlueSid]

For the sake of accuracy, there was NOT a referendum on whether we joined the EU or not.

We joined in 1973 under Heath's Tory government. After 2 general elections in 1974 we had Harold Wilson who gave the country a referendum on whether to stay or leave. It was a clear majority to stay.

What BryLowes said is true in that most people voted 'leave' this time on the issue of immigration, and the mistaken idea that leaving the EU would make any difference. It won't.

 

[chiefdave]

We moved away from manufacturing long ago in favour of financial services

I thought we moved away from manufacturing as well but a chap from the official leave campaign was on the radio yesterday stating that we would now turn the clock back and become a country of manufacturing again. Not sure how that is going to be implemented, he didn't seem too sure either.

The financial services sector needs to be retained but there is already talk of moves. What is being said in terms of keeping them here is that we have the skilled people for the job but I'm pretty sure a lot of those would happily move to Europe to remain in the highly paid jobs.

We need to move very fast to ensure the UK retains its passporting rights to the single market however EU member states are already saying that to do that we will have to accept a Norway type agreement where we still pay in and agree to freedom of movement but don't get any say in decision making. Doing a deal similar to Canada or Switzerland is no use to us as they exclude financial services.

Ironically enough the glimmer of hope for the financial services sector is Mifid 2, a forthcoming piece of EU legislation!

 

[chiefdave]

Immigration won the referendum I completely agree. Real people care about jobs and housing and gp appointments not how the ftse100 and the euro is doing I would suggest.

A lot of people, on both sides, don't seem to have even a basic grasp on how these things are linked.

 

[Grendel]

For the sake of accuracy, there was NOT a referendum on whether we joined the EU or not.

We joined in 1973 under Heath's Tory government. After 2 general elections in 1974 we had Harold Wilson who gave the country a referendum on whether to stay or leave. It was a clear majority to stay.

What BryLowes said is true in that most people voted 'leave' this time on the issue of immigration, and the mistaken idea that leaving the EU would make any difference. It won't.

So you've spoken to the 17 million plus who voted to leave and at least 8.6 million said this was a factor did you?

Or have you actually just made that up?

Yes I thought so.

 

[armybike]

Immigration won the referendum I completely agree. Real people care about jobs and housing and gp appointments

You honestly believe the situation with jobs, housing and GP appointments are because of immigration?

For clarification the following responses don't count - saying "it's obvious", "I'm deluded", I need to "open my eyes", "it's all around us" or posting links to the Daily Mail, Sun or Daily Express websites to try and back up your opinions.

Also, what exactly does "real people" mean? This is as opposed to what?

 

[Kingokings204]

You honestly believe the situation with jobs, housing and GP appointments are because of immigration?

For clarification the following responses don't count - saying "it's obvious", "I'm deluded", I need to "open my eyes", "it's all around us" or posting links to the Daily Mail, Sun or Daily Express websites to try and back up your opinions.

Also, what exactly does "real people" mean? This is as opposed to what?

Yes of course I believe immigration plays a part. You seriously can't suggest otherwise. If you do then we can't have a debate because you are ignoring how more people makes it harder to handle public services. If you have more and more uncontrolled immigration then yes of course it has an impact. Not the sole cause but it plays a major part.

Real people, you know people who don't live in the capital who live in a different world. People in grimsby and Sunderland ask why hasn't David Cameron or George osbourne come up there and see what has happened to their communities and jobs. They don't care.

I see Martin Schulz said this morning he blames Britain out on a Tory party spilt. Just complete arrogance and blindness to why people voted out. Of course all the people who voted out are stupid and don't know what they are doing. Well people do know what they have voted for and guess what leave won fair and square. Get over it.

 

[Kingokings204]

For the sake of accuracy, there was NOT a referendum on whether we joined the EU or not.

We joined in 1973 under Heath's Tory government. After 2 general elections in 1974 we had Harold Wilson who gave the country a referendum on whether to stay or leave. It was a clear majority to stay.

What BryLowes said is true in that most people voted 'leave' this time on the issue of immigration, and the mistaken idea that leaving the EU would make any difference. It won't.

Why won't it? What a silly comment. We introduce an Points based system with a strong government and this won't reduce numbers stopping low skilled workers? Really?

 

[Kingokings204]

So you don't believe in democracy then?

People can vote as long as they are intelligent enough to believe what you believe.

Interesting thought process.

The working class could think for themselves 43 years ago. Now they are scum and are not allowed a voice.

Yes you are a true Europhile. Screw the masses and make them do as I say.

Yes Grendel. That last sentence you said is so true. It's we are rich and doing very well thank you so please don't mess this up for us.

The thing that really made me sick to my stomach was when bob geldoff an Irish millionnaire swore and ridiculed working class fisherman on the Thames outside parliament. Says it all. Made me so angry.

 

[armybike]

Not the sole cause but it plays a major part.

A major part? I'm guessing you can back that up?

 

[lifeskyblue]

I was for remain but the campaign was poor and played into the hands of brexit. Cameron, Osborne, Corbyn et al underestimated the opposition, didn't present a positive message message and promoted fear. By ignoring the concerns of the majority of working people for a couple of decades they thought they could take the voters for granted.
I'm not disappointed with those who voted leave but with all politicians who just haven't got a clue about the lives of the people they preach to.


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[Kingokings204]

I was for remain but the campaign was poor and played into the hands of brexit. Cameron, Osborne, Corbyn et al underestimated the opposition, didn't present a positive message message and promoted fear. By ignoring the concerns of the majority of working people for a couple of decades they thought they could take the voters for granted.
I'm not disappointed with those who voted leave but with all politicians who just haven't got a clue about the lives of the people they preach to.


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Well reasoned post. They just don't get it.

 

[Kingokings204]

A major part? I'm guessing you can back that up?

Well yeah, uncontrolled mass numbers means you can never plan and demand overweighs supply. Also meaning you can never plan for the amount of doctors needed. It's quite simple.

As I say it's not the sole reason I admit but it's a major factor on those four issues in particular.

 

[armybike]

Well yeah, uncontrolled mass numbers means you can never plan and demand overweighs supply. Also meaning you can never plan for the amount of doctors needed. It's quite simple.

As I say it's not the sole reason I admit but it's a major factor on those four issues in particular.

Right so you can't back it up that's it's a major factor - it's simply your opinion.

Well at least we got that cleared up. Good work.

 

[Kingokings204]

Right so you can't back it up that's it's a major factor - it's simply your opinion.

Well at least we got that cleared up. Good work.

From the same person who did the exact same.

Well yeah you lost the argument in the referendum so I would expect you to be a bit bitter. You didn't get the result you wanted so let's argue with everyone as they are wrong.

Sorry I forgot.

 

[chiefdave]

Those that voted leave what was the big issue(s) that made you vote that way? I'm seeing a lot of people citing the £350m a week extra we will have (already backtracked on that) and immigration (leave saying they are not sure they can lower immigration), was it one of those or something else?

 

[Kingokings204]

Those that voted leave what was the big issue(s) that made you vote that way? I'm seeing a lot of people citing the £350m a week extra we will have (already backtracked on that) and immigration (leave saying they are not sure they can lower immigration), was it one of those or something else?

Well both for me to answer your question but the trouble with your post is, You are suiting your own argument which is fine but if remain had won then things would of happened that they would of back tracked on. It was always going to happen either way. So not really sure of your point other than suiting your own argument. I don't like handing over the money or uncontrolled immigration but I never voted expecting 350m straight into my pocket or immigration to come down to 5k within a year.

It's not even been 2 days for goodness sake.

 

[armybike]

From the same person who did the exact same.

Well yeah you lost the argument in the referendum so I would expect you to be a bit bitter. You didn't get the result you wanted so let's argue with everyone as they are wrong.

Sorry I forgot.

Lost the argument re referendum? What are you on argument? A vote isn't an argument, it an opportunity for people to decide which route/option they believe should be followed.

I believed and still do that the better option would have been staying in. The fact the vote went for Leave doesn't change my opinion or make my opinion less valid. It was me offering my position on the situation.

However, you're just making stuff up. You're saying immigrants have a major impact on jobs, housing, access to doctors and the NHS - but are not able to offer anything to demonstrate this is true.

You presenting your opinion as fact isn't me being bitter, is you not knowing what you're talking about.

Unfortunately many people have the same ill-informed opinions around immigrants.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Well both for me to answer your question but the trouble with your post is, You are suiting your own argument which is fine but if remain had won then things would of happened that they would of back tracked on. It was always going to happen either way. So not really sure of your point other than suiting your own argument. I don't like handing over the money or uncontrolled immigration but I never voted expecting 350m straight into my pocket or immigration to come down to 5k within a year.

It's not even been 2 days for goodness sake.

We need to take our time and not listen to the sulking Eurocrats from the power that is Luxumberg (not even sure I have even spelt it right it is so unimportant). I didn't want to become part of the United States of Germany, far too much wastage in the whole system.

Big business is bound to say it is going to move off as they will be trying to negotiate better deals for themselves but those that do move away should be told that they will find it very difficult to import to here after.

I was English before the vote and I still am I was never British or a European.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Well both for me to answer your question but the trouble with your post is, You are suiting your own argument which is fine but if remain had won then things would of happened that they would of back tracked on. It was always going to happen either way. So not really sure of your point other than suiting your own argument. I don't like handing over the money or uncontrolled immigration but I never voted expecting 350m straight into my pocket or immigration to come down to 5k within a year.

It's not even been 2 days for goodness sake.

Yes you are right. Any manifesto is nothing more than a'promise' on paper that is never met after the event. Funnily Osborne has been quiet since the result on his emergency budget...another case of telling the electorate one thing and doing another.
I can't believe the Brexit group will deliver on many promises....and certainly not until they get the positions in government and not until the article 50 is invoked


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[chiefdave]

It's not even been 2 days for goodness sake.

That's exactly my point. It seems to me the two issues at the forefront of the leave campaign were the amount going to the EU, that could instead be spent here, and immigration. Within hours of a leave vote both were being retracted.

If I'd voted leave on the basis of one, or both, of those policies I'd be absolutely furious. We're all used to politicians lying and going back on their word but it doesn't usually happen so fast.

What do you think remain would be backtracking on? The campaign wasn't run on remain and reform just remain meaning a remain vote would see things unchanged. Not a lot to backtrack on there.

 

[SkyBlueSid]

Why won't it? What a silly comment. We introduce an Points based system with a strong government and this won't reduce numbers stopping low skilled workers? Really?

I don't believe it will make much difference at all. Non-EU people have no right to rock up in the UK but it hasn't stopped them so far. And it's those that are the problem in the main, not EU citizens. Norway can't keep them out and I don't think we will either. One problem is that we will still have an open land border with the EU that is over 300 miles long. I suppose we could build a wall! As for strong government, don't hold your breath.....

 

[chiefdave]

Funnily Osborne has been quiet since the result on his emergency budget

By the time there's another budget, emergency or otherwise, it could very well be Gove rather than Osbourne - god help us.

 

[ceetee]

Why did people expect the Brexit group to 'deliver on promises' ? Only elected government ( or unelected EU bureaucacy) can deliver

 

[Kingokings204]

Lost the argument re referendum? What are you on argument? A vote isn't an argument, it an opportunity for people to decide which route/option they believe should be followed.

I believed and still do that the better option would have been staying in. The fact the vote went for Leave doesn't change my opinion or make my opinion less valid. It was me offering my position on the situation.

However, you're just making stuff up. You're saying immigrants have a major impact on jobs, housing, access to doctors and the NHS - but are not able to offer anything to demonstrate this is true.

You presenting your opinion as fact isn't me being bitter, is you not knowing what you're talking about.

Unfortunately many people have the same ill-informed opinions around immigrants.

Oh dear. You already are struggling aren't you.

I shall help you out. Your opinion lost so get over it and take the result as I'm sure you believe in democracy.