Phil Townsend inquest (16 Viewers)

[armybike]

Maybe you can email the police who carry out training in reading body language and ask them?

Just hope you are this defensive about your football team come August.

So you know the police are trained in reading body language? Is that all officers? Is it an accredited qualification?

Also, I'm not being defensive (no, you don't know what I'm thinking and it's not obvious what I'm trying to imply), I'm simply pointing out the holes in your argument.

You've said that even if a person answer no comment in an interview, then body language and reactions can be read, but you're not able to clarify what purpose this would serve.

 

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[Nick]

So you know the police are trained in reading body language? Is that all officers? Is it an accredited qualification?

Also, I'm not being defensive (no, you don't know what I'm thinking and it's not obvious what I'm trying to imply), I'm simply pointing out the holes in your argument.

You've said that even if a person answer no comment in an interview, then body language and reactions can be read, but you're not able to clarify what purpose this would serve.

I don't need to know what you are thinking to see that you are being a bit defensive about it?

You are trying to make out it is pointless interviewing people in case they might just say no comment. Of course the police will try and read body language and behaviour in an interview if they are saying no comment all the way through or not.

Police use body language all of the time, even outside of interviews.

Like I said, maybe you should e-mail them and ask them what the purpose of using body language is?

 

[Grendel]

What's most odd about it is the lengths to the CT are going to in an attempt to try and clear his name. Most people probably had little idea who he was nor what he'd done wrong.
Funny how his conviction for failing to pay the national minimum wage (can't remember if it was a young apprentice) to an employee got no coverage.

http://www.solicitorsjournal.com/ne...s-firm-pays-legal-assistant-‘lowly’-£267-hour

 

[armybike]

I don't need to know what you are thinking to see that you are being a bit defensive about it?

You are trying to make out it is pointless interviewing people in case they might just say no comment. Of course the police will try and read body language and behaviour in an interview if they are saying no comment all the way through or not.

Police use body language all of the time, even outside of interviews.

Like I said, maybe you should e-mail them and ask them what the purpose of using body language is?

Nope, you're wrong you don't know how I feel about it, what I'm thinking or trying to achieve.

Where have I said it's pointless interviewing people?

If it's a financial matter, what would be the best source of info?

Right, so explain to me how this reading of body language is implemented into the investigation or at court? What purpose does it serve?

If you know these things why not explain them, why would I need to make contact with someone else?

You're the one who introduced body language into the equation.

 

[Nick]

Nope, you're wrong you don't know how I feel about it, what I'm thinking or trying to achieve.

Where have I said it's pointless interviewing people?

If it's a financial matter, what would be the best source of info?

Right, so explain to me how this reading of body language is implemented into the investigation or at court? What purpose does it serve?

If you know these things why not explain them, why would I need to make contact with someone else?

You're the one who introduced body language into the equation.

Because if you actually speak to the "suspect" you can get more of an idea of what is going on. They can put their side of the story across and if it is all just a misunderstanding then it can be cleared up surely?

The police would watch body language during interviews to see how the "suspect" is being, it helps them get more of an idea doesn't it? It is silly to say it would be taken to court based on the only evidence being body language, I have never said that would happen or implied that. Body language is used before it even gets to court isn't it? Even before an "arrest" is made?

 

[armybike]

Because if you actually speak to the "suspect" you can get more of an idea of what is going on. They can put their side of the story across and if it is all just a misunderstanding then it can be cleared up surely?

The police would watch body language during interviews to see how the "suspect" is being, it helps them get more of an idea doesn't it? It is silly to say it would be taken to court based on the only evidence being body language, I have never said that would happen or implied that. Body language is used before it even gets to court isn't it? Even before an "arrest" is made?

As I've asked several times how is the body language conveyed in the investigation or at court?

Also, aren't the police suppose to be impartial and work on the evidence available and not make judgements based on their opinions of people?

 

[Nick]

As I've asked several times how is the body language conveyed in the investigation or at court?

Also, aren't the police suppose to be impartial and work on the evidence available and not make judgements based on their opinions of people?

I don't know, I am not a police expert. I don't have to be to say something "sounds dodgy".

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-police-using-body-language-7970584

Obviously, that is aimed at more terrorism but it is an example of using body language.

 

[armybike]

Obviously, that is aimed at more terrorism but it is an example of using body language.

So not used in interviews then. Well, at least we got that cleared up.

 

[Nick]

So not used in interviews then. Well, at least we got that cleared up.

Yes, police who carry out interviews do not look out for body language or reactions at all. You are totally correct.

 

[Grendel]

Further update. Seems she still lives there but a mortgage on a £325,000 property has been has been taken out,

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...tions-late-coventry-council-deputy-townshend/

 

[armybike]

Yes, police who carry out interviews do not look out for body language or reactions at all. You are totally correct.

Yes, because that's exactly what I've said......oh, hang on a minute, no it isn't.

We all read body language on a daily basis.

You've said that if the police interview someone and they answer no comment they can still read the body language - I've not disputed this.

My question was, how is this implemented into the investigation or to the court.

Despite you trying to search for an answer, all you could find was an article that makes reference to the police using body language to try and identify extremists, which doesn't relate to the question at hand.

You've then tried to make out I said that the police don't read body language.

Good work.

 

[Nick]

My question was, how is this implemented into the investigation or to the court.

They can get an idea of guilt or not based on body language. I have never said it can be used in court or claimed it but if somebody is accused of something then talking to them is a good place to start whether there is a no comment or not.

You were trying to make out that police didn't try to read body language in interviews, summed up by this:

So not used in interviews then. Well, at least we got that cleared up.

Here you go again, trying to pick up and focus on individual words. Much like the whole "dropping legals" situation where everybody else knew what was meant bar you.

All I said was even if they just say no comment, that police can still pick up on reactions and body language. I never once said it could be used as evidence or in court. Quite clear what I meant.

A bit boring really.

 

[Grendel]

More updates;

£688,000 is the amount the legal firm was in debt for

Sources to the BBC indicate that he personally benefited by "tens of thousands" from the equity release on the house

Suggestion he told a mortgage company house was vacant and could be repossessed even though the vulnerable woman still lived there.

SRA only dropped investigations as his death prevented further action

 

[Grendel]

Army bike clearly either has me on ignore or he refuses to answer my questions. Perhaps I should send him an e mail.

I would be interested to know his association with Mr Townshend.

Is he a colleague - I.e fellow councillor or does he work at the CET. I ask this as he gave a personal tribute in the CET alongside Simon Gilbert.

 

[armybike]

They can get an idea of guilt or not based on body language. I have never said it can be used in court or claimed it but if somebody is accused of something then talking to them is a good place to start whether there is a no comment or not.

You were trying to make out that police didn't try to read body language in interviews, summed up by this:

Here you go again, trying to pick up and focus on individual words. Much like the whole "dropping legals" situation where everybody else knew what was meant bar you.

All I said was even if they just say no comment, that police can still pick up on reactions and body language. I never once said it could be used as evidence or in court.

A bit boring really.

They can get an idea of guilt based on body language! Oh, this just gets better.

So, just to confirm, they can get an idea of guilt but can't use this information in any format. So that's really useful then isn't it.

Also, I wasn't trying to make out anything.

Despite searching you couldn't find any reference to reading body language being a policing technique used in interviews, despite you saying I should "email the police who carry out training in reading body language".

You've made comments and I've simply pointed out they don't stack up.

Also, just to clarify nobody has been told to drop legals.

 

[Nick]

They can get an idea of guilt based on body language! Oh, this just gets better.

So, just to confirm, they can get an idea of guilt but can't use this information in any format. So that's really useful then isn't it.

Also, I wasn't trying to make out anything.

Despite searching you couldn't find any reference to reading body language being a policing technique used in interviews, despite you saying I should "email the police who carry out training in reading body language".

You've made comments and I've simply pointed out they don't stack up.

Also, just to clarify nobody has been told to drop legals.

What gets better? Of course you can tell things from body language in some instances. I am not saying somebody can walk in and be found innocent or guilty just from their body language but pretty sure police can get more information from the way people act during interviews. I have never once said it can be used in court, just that the it can help the police get an idea of what has gone on. They can't be judged or sentenced based on body language, but police can often get an idea from it.

You should maybe email or tweet the police direct if you want to know any more though, as I said at the start.

Seems you just like to try and argue for no apparent reason, focusing on 1 sentence rather than the whole thread.

 

[Nick]

Are you a policeman by the way?

 

[armybike]

What gets better? Of course you can tell things from body language in some instances. I am not saying somebody can walk in and be found innocent or guilty just from their body language but pretty sure police can get more information from the way people act during interviews. I have never once said it can be used in court, just that the it can help the police get an idea of what has gone on. They can't be judged or sentenced based on body language, but police can often get an idea from it.

You should maybe email or tweet the police direct if you want to know any more though, as I said at the start.

Seems you just like to try and argue for no apparent reason, focusing on 1 sentence rather than the whole thread.

So, lets cut to the chase - does the reading of the body language offer any evidential benefit to the process?

 

[Nick]

So, lets cut to the chase - does the reading of the body language offer any evidential benefit to the process?

No, I have never claimed it can be used as evidence or anything like that.

I was merely saying even if they say no comment they still have the person in front of them so they can read and see the body language and maybe get more of an idea.

 

[Moff]

Despite the police concluding no wrongdoing has occurred, you've said it "sounds a bit dodgy".

Did the Police conclude no wrong doing had occurred or that in light of the death of Mr Townsend was the case discontinued?

And Nick is right, there is specific Police training into body language, although I suspect you already know that from your experiences.

 

[armybike]

No, I have never claimed it can be used as evidence or anything like that.

Still don't see why you raised it then.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Army bike clearly either has me on ignore or he refuses to answer my questions. Perhaps I should send him an e mail.

I would be interested to know his association with Mr Townshend.

Is he a colleague - I.e fellow councillor or does he work at the CET. I ask this as he gave a personal tribute in the CET alongside Simon Gilbert.

I think he's the tea boy at the council meetings.

 

[armybike]

Did the Police conclude no wrong doing had occurred or that in light of the death of Mr Townsend was the case discontinued?

And Nick is right, there is specific Police training into body language, although I suspect you already know that from your experiences.

From the article yesterday he died in Oct but it wasn't until Jan the investigation was concluded and decided no action would be taken.

The police have training in body language that's used in interviews?

 

[Moff]

From the article yesterday he died in Oct but it wasn't until Jan the investigation was concluded and decided no action would be taken.

The police have training in body language that's used in interviews?

No action taken does not mean that there was or wasn't wrong doing, but being balanced Cllr Townsend will never have the chance to give his side of the story.

I didn't say the Police used body language training in interviews as evidence. I said the Police have training in body language. It is used in different scenarios. I may be misreading but have you knowledge of Police interviews?

 

[armybike]

No action taken does not mean that there was or wasn't wrong doing, but being balanced Cllr Townsend will never have the chance to give his side of the story.

I didn't say the Police used body language training in interviews as evidence. I said the Police have training in body language. It is used in different scenarios. I may be misreading but have you knowledge of Police interviews?

So what does no action mean then?

I didn't say you were, it was a question. I've never heard of the police having body language training.

I have no knowledge of interviews, I'm just trying to understand the link between them and body language.

 

[Nick]

On another note, if people are giving his daughter death threats, hoax calls etc because of something he allegedly did then it is out of order also.

 

[Moff]

So what does no action mean then?

I didn't say you were, it was a question. I've never heard of the police having body language training.

I have no knowledge of interviews, I'm just trying to understand the link between them and body language.

No action means exactly that. No further action. This can often be for a number of reasons, and in this case we can all surmise a number of possibilities, but will never know exactly why. The only definitive thing is it wont go any further.

I do believe some Police in certain roles, receive body language and behavioural analysis training, but don't have detail of the specifics.

I wasn't the one linking body language to interviews. I am afraid you will have to take that up with Nick.

 

[Nick]

No action means exactly that. No further action. This can often be for a number of reasons, and in this case we can all surmise a number of possibilities, but will never know exactly why. The only definitive thing is it wont go any further.

I do believe some Police in certain roles, receive body language and behavioural analysis training, but don't have detail of the specifics.

I wasn't the one linking body language to interviews. I am afraid you will have to take that up with Nick.

i simply said if somebody is interviewed they can look at their body language...

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Armybike is very good at getting people into petty arguments to distract from the main point. The thread has gone onto police techniques on body language when we were discussing how and why a solicitor would get a mortgage on a property that belongs to someone else.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Armybike, a simple question for you. If a relative of yours had a house and a solicitor or person of trust remortgaged the house to get money for themselves against your relatives property what would you do?

 

[armybike]

Armybike is very good at getting people into petty arguments to distract from the main point.

I don't get people into petty arguments.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I don't get people into petty arguments.

Yes you do. so there!

 

[armybike]

Yes you do. so there!

No I don't

 

[Ian1779]

We are also in the area of who is pushing the story. LR is the one suggesting the story is more than what it is, with the CET suppressing.

I would hypothesise that if it was LR suppressing the story and CET trying to expose it that some people's standpoint may be a tad different.

 

[Nick]

We are also in the area of who is pushing the story. LR is the one suggesting the story is more than what it is, with the CET suppressing.

I would hypothesise that if it was LR suppressing the story and CET trying to expose it that some people's standpoint may be a tad different.

You could say that, but then the BBC got involved as well didn't they?