Nick
Administrator
I am not sure he has said he goes to Wasps has he, unless I missed it?
Poll: Wasps in Coventry (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
I am not sure he has said he goes to Wasps has he, unless I missed it?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
My mistake, thought he had said he sat with Wasps season ticket holders.
Must pay more attention, I blame the heat!
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I'm not surprised, given the sample audience.
Out of interest, are these polls going to be run on Twitter/FB forums to get a rounded view? To your point, it would be interesting to see the comparisons between this forum against FB results and Twitter results.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ha well the twitter poll on confidence regarding the trust was about the same
This will be an argument against this but Facebook and Twitter are not forums and use the existing platform and user ids
If as a business you are looking to launch something with a community angle the big advantages a forum offers is its targeted and you need to create an ID to join it.
In that sense I’d argue it’s more likely to have views representative to the fan base that attends and have a specific view on a subject
Si80
Well-Known Member
Were Wasps involved when SISU started telling the council that they were leaving the Ricoh, building a stadium on a cloud and basically playing chicken with the club on the M6? That's where this started Nick. I don't need the Telegraph, nor the Observer to tell me that. SISU started this downward spiral, I saw them drag us to the lowest tier of football over their own personal greed without a care for the fans. We're their last thought. Seppala couldn't give a shit about us.
Devils advocate here....If it hadn't come out that Wasps were behind Hoffman and his consortium, and SISU had accepted his bid and sold the club to him I'd imagine a deal would have been cut for CCFC to have an equal part of the income at the Ricoh, a permanent home and allow us to fund the team better. Serious question, would our fans care? Of course they wouldn't (well maybe some on here would be F*CK WASPS etc etc).
Our fans want CCFC at the Ricoh and more money invested in the side with security of knowing that we'll be at the Ricoh for the foreseeable.
That could have happened and we'd all have been non the wiser about who the consortium was other than having Hoffman as the face of it. Plus all of those fans who have stayed away because of SISU would come back, wouldn't they? Wouldn't that have been nice? 15K+ fans again in the Ricoh and a team that isn't worried about selling it's star youngster every year to still be able to invest?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Get it. Not sure I agree but understand what you mean.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Yes there were weren't they? Didn't the council approach and speak to Wasps before all this started?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wasps were approached before the rent was stopped being paid
Si80
Well-Known Member
I've never been to a Wasps game. I mentioned that I sat around plenty of CCFC fans that were also Wasps ST holders.
Si80
Well-Known Member
But had SISU announced that they were off building their new stadium?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No of course not. ACL were trying to purchase wasps behind the clubs back. Even the rent strike was an agreed strategy by both sides to lower the Yorkshire Bank purchase price for the loan
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
And another opportunity to post this eye-opening article.
Hugh Godwin: Wasps didn't have to send themselves to Coventry
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
In that article, written in 2014, it says they planned to be in profit in 3/4 years. 4 years down the line they're losing £10m a year.
Si80
Well-Known Member
Amazon TV money will cover a chunk of that won't it in the short term? Rest of the TV coverage deal to be sorted by 2021 and an expected increase again on current tv deal (£200M). If that's the case then it looks like Richardson's gamble might pan out.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Which is still about the Top 10 in Europe — to put that into perspective. Only 1-2 French and another 1-2 Irish teams have teams with comparable attendances.
Bad explanation on my part, the seasons in their ‘successful’ seasons they were amongst they were about 6th in Europe and doing really well on that front.
I do believe there’s a lot of mercenary support for Wasps, who won’t really stick with them when the going gets tough.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
When did Amazon win the rights? Can't find anything about that online.
The effect of any TV deal, unless it reaches Premier League football proportions or is a lower value than previously, is surely negligible as all clubs will get the same and therefore for Wasps to remain at the same level they are now will need to increase their spending in line with any increase.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
How will it pan out? He's personally owed a fortune which he's never getting back, he's otherwise got to raise £34m to repay a bond. Also, a big increase in Amazon TV money is offset in an increase in the share that goes to CVC partners from 27% up to 45% if revenue increases above the certain level. Therefore, the TV deal would have to be magnificent if it was to provide the kind of windfall that would put Wasps into a profit position.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
You’re banking on two deals, one rumoured and one two years away. In the meantime they have a short terms cash injection that won’t even cover their bonds a loss of £2m a year from us not being there. Rumours of sponsorship money dwindling, poorly managed events likely to lead to less profitable ones coming in the future and rumours of casino closing. They have also given up a quarter of any league revenue (which includes tv money) so that will have to have a significant increase before they even look at the same coming in let alone chipping away on current losses and what is expected to get worse. This all going on when they can’t afford training facilities, are losing their best players and failed to qualify for premier European competition meaning another drop in income, quality and likely punters.
Anybody predicting an improvement at the moment is widely optimistic or badly deluded.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it won’t - they are losing money every week and the players will inevitably demand that they receive the TV money in wages
Wasps even with player squad reductions cannot control the wage spend. Turnover has not improved profit and the stadium maintenance looks very daunting
Richardson took £10 million back when financing the Bond and then promptly had to start lending it back again. It’s eaten massively into his personal weaker and there is zero chance of getting it back
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
That's where we are with them now. People who are more supportive of the move are clinging on to things like money from amazon who have only expressed a vague interest.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
No, get with the timeline. It was in March 2012 (conversations between ACL and Wasps had clearly been taking place for a while). This was at the same time as ACL apparently negotiating in good faith with CCFC for the Higgs' Share in ACL.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Wouldn't that have seen CCFC owning a half share in Wasps, if everything had panned out?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just a few of points on the Wasps finances. The latest info available is for the 6 months to 31/12/2018. Audited accounts are due to be reported 31/10/2019
If you compare 31/12/2018 figures to the same six months in 2017 then turnover was up not by much £390k but it hadnt fallen. ( six months to 31/12/2018 16.4m 31/12/2017 15.8m) total turnover for year to 30/06/2018 32.8m.
Since 31/12/18 there have been three concerts at the ricoh which will add to turnover but maybe not the profit. And of course the increased number of CCFC fans will have softened the blow from their own poor performance on the pitch.
I expect their performances to be down but thats more because of their poor season i feel than anything else. How they are affected next season is any ones guess
The debt to Richardson had in that 6 months to 31/12/2018 fallen by £238k compared to 30/06/2018 (year end). Total borrowings by 31/12/2018 had fallen by £470k since 30/06/2018
During that 6 months to 31/12/2018 they completed a new deal with Delaware to replace Compass. As i understand it that should increase the Wasps profit because it is at cheaper cost
During the 6 months to 31/12/2018 they spent 5.1m on getting rid of Compass and a further £2m on fixed assets. But managed to be cash flow positive to the tune of £1.4m
Since 31/12/2018 Wasps have benefitted from the CVC share sale to around 15m. That will show in the accounts to 30/06/2018 as an increase in profit (less the value already in the accounts approx 3.8m). So in the scheme of things they should be profitable to 30/06/2019. They might not be able to spend it on the day to day running of the business or players or repaying debt but the worst they can do is put it on deposit which if they get 3% interest is 450k income/profit going forward
The wasps losses will not increase by 2m because CCFC are not there. That is the Turnover figure put out by Boddy/Fisher/Seppala which totally ignores the costs associated with it. The loss is nothing like that figure
All rugby clubs are under huge pressure because of player wages. However unlike football there is some sort of mechanism to control it. Wage pressure isnt going away though. As i understand it there is a levelling out going on between the English clubs at the moment where those not previously hitting the cap are and those that already have stay there.
Thats the best i can give you until October in respect of Wasps finances. But it is based on published information not hearsay. That is not to say everything at wasps is rosey or going well
Last thought, i know what has been said but are we 100% sure wasps want or need CCFC back? I am not. October should bring more insight
If you compare 31/12/2018 figures to the same six months in 2017 then turnover was up not by much £390k but it hadnt fallen. ( six months to 31/12/2018 16.4m 31/12/2017 15.8m) total turnover for year to 30/06/2018 32.8m.
Since 31/12/18 there have been three concerts at the ricoh which will add to turnover but maybe not the profit. And of course the increased number of CCFC fans will have softened the blow from their own poor performance on the pitch.
I expect their performances to be down but thats more because of their poor season i feel than anything else. How they are affected next season is any ones guess
The debt to Richardson had in that 6 months to 31/12/2018 fallen by £238k compared to 30/06/2018 (year end). Total borrowings by 31/12/2018 had fallen by £470k since 30/06/2018
During that 6 months to 31/12/2018 they completed a new deal with Delaware to replace Compass. As i understand it that should increase the Wasps profit because it is at cheaper cost
During the 6 months to 31/12/2018 they spent 5.1m on getting rid of Compass and a further £2m on fixed assets. But managed to be cash flow positive to the tune of £1.4m
Since 31/12/2018 Wasps have benefitted from the CVC share sale to around 15m. That will show in the accounts to 30/06/2018 as an increase in profit (less the value already in the accounts approx 3.8m). So in the scheme of things they should be profitable to 30/06/2019. They might not be able to spend it on the day to day running of the business or players or repaying debt but the worst they can do is put it on deposit which if they get 3% interest is 450k income/profit going forward
The wasps losses will not increase by 2m because CCFC are not there. That is the Turnover figure put out by Boddy/Fisher/Seppala which totally ignores the costs associated with it. The loss is nothing like that figure
All rugby clubs are under huge pressure because of player wages. However unlike football there is some sort of mechanism to control it. Wage pressure isnt going away though. As i understand it there is a levelling out going on between the English clubs at the moment where those not previously hitting the cap are and those that already have stay there.
Thats the best i can give you until October in respect of Wasps finances. But it is based on published information not hearsay. That is not to say everything at wasps is rosey or going well
Last thought, i know what has been said but are we 100% sure wasps want or need CCFC back? I am not. October should bring more insight
Last edited:
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The negotiations were with the Charity not ACL fp. Turns out there was a reason SISU wanted sight of the ACL books.
Yes ACL were talking to wasps with a view to ACL owning wasps not the other way round. It was also the time that assets in CCFC got moved or were lost. They were all as bad as each other
Nick
Administrator
Wasn't that an emergency thing to get the wages paid?
Yeah, £5 million at the end of last month.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Didn't know that. That can't be a good sign.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
You almost sound happy.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Cool story bro, needs more dragons though. Sibollocks more like
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Of course not, how realistically would that have worked?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If ACL wanted to buy Wasps, and wecwanted to buy half of ACL
Nick
Administrator
Think Haskell...
mark82
Super Moderator
We already have a rugby team - Coventry RFC. They were once one of the most successful teams in the country, but have fallen on hard times. They are now on their way back. Why not support them?
Wasps coming is the equivalent of parachuting Arsenal into Coventry because Coventry City have been playing in the third and fourth tier. Bet you'd love that because you could watch premier league football.
Last edited: