Positive News for the Academy - Wasps pull out of Higgs (20 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Why is it ridiculous for people to hate the team that shoe horned themselves into the stadium that was built for our football club?

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It’s not ridiculous, however I do it find it a bit odd when some seem to have more anger towards Wasps for taking advantage, than they do towards those who created the opportunity for Wasps in the first place.
Just my opinion. I know some will assume I mean the Council but I am mainly referring to our owners.

 

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[covmark]

It’s not ridiculous, however I do it find it a bit odd when some seem to have more anger towards Wasps for taking advantage, than they do towards those who created the opportunity for Wasps in the first place.
Just my opinion. I know some will assume I mean the Council but I am mainly referring to our owners.

Yes. But then we get into the argument of who are the biggest shitcunts. Which has been done a million times.
I hate sisu. They're useless fuckers.
I hate wasps they're stadium stealing cretins.
I hate the council. They fucked our football club over for years. Then sold the ground that was built for our football club to the stadium stealing cretins.
Everyone are cunts except for every single one of our long suffering fans. The ones that followed us to Sixfields. The ones who boycotted because of Sixfields. The NOPM'ers. The ones that still go now to follow the dross that's served up. We've been royally fucked over and it stinks.

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[Astute]

It’s not ridiculous, however I do it find it a bit odd when some seem to have more anger towards Wasps for taking advantage, than they do towards those who created the opportunity for Wasps in the first place.
Just my opinion. I know some will assume I mean the Council but I am mainly referring to our owners.

I don't see as much anger towards Wasps as.I do SISU. What I do see is many hope that their move to Coventry fails. And if you look at the finances it wouldn't be a shock.

So yes they could make 1.5m a year profit. But it isn't enough when you are making repayments of twice that amount. And that is interest alone. So the debt will.always remain. They will have to keep paying it. They could always reduce their wage bill. But that could reduce their income.

I feel sorry for the supporters that they had before they came to Coventry. But.it will.be a happy day when they finally leave.

 

[rupert_bear]

I don’t follow this Wasp shouldn’t be here or will they fold financially that much but if they have made £1.5 million profit wouldn’t that be after all expense, payments, interest, wages, tax etc has been taken out ?

 

[Grendel]

I read it as the figures were up to December 2016.
It says they are allowed to refinance in 2019 and it looks like they are suggesting they will.
I have no idea how it has gone since they were in profit of 1.5 million 11 months ago.
I don’t take really any interest in them or their finances, I assume by your response you no longer think they are making a profit?

They weren’t in profit 11 months ago

 

[SBAndy]

I read it as the figures were up to December 2016.
It says they are allowed to refinance in 2019 and it looks like they are suggesting they will.
I have no idea how it has gone since they were in profit of 1.5 million 11 months ago.
I don’t take really any interest in them or their finances, I assume by your response you no longer think they are making a profit?

See, from this I cannot quite get my head around why they took the option of a bond issue at 6.5% interest as the best method of raising capital. Could they be looking at higher interest if they look to refinance via a bank? If so, that poses a very clear picture of the anticipated risk involved and with all seemingly not going completely to plan, I sense they could end up chasing their debt round in circles whilst never being able to repay.

 

[Grendel]

So Coventry City FC is a white elephant. No real assets and the previous and current owners have ran it at a loss?

All football clubs run at a loss. The losses are funded by its owners.

 

[ccfcway]

All football clubs run at a loss. The losses are funded by its owners.

Every Premier League team ranked by profit or loss: Shock results for Arsenal and Chelsea

12 out of 20 prem clubs earned a profit last year

 

[Grendel]

Every Premier League team ranked by profit or loss: Shock results for Arsenal and Chelsea

12 out of 20 prem clubs earned a profit last year

You are quoting operating profit.

 

[fernandopartridge]

See, from this I cannot quite get my head around why they took the option of a bond issue at 6.5% interest as the best method of raising capital. Could they be looking at higher interest if they look to refinance via a bank? If so, that poses a very clear picture of the anticipated risk involved and with all seemingly not going completely to plan, I sense they could end up chasing their debt round in circles whilst never being able to repay.

They went down the bond route as they would never be lent that sum by a bank

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[SkyBlue79]

I've got to agree with Grendel, it is probably only operating profit, and only those who are competing in Europe year in year out can be anywhere near making a real profit. Player values in the Premiership will distort this, as will sponsorship deals such as Etihad which help mask financial fair play. I think it is more relevant to us, to look at how many championship (minus those on parachute payments) are running anywhere near a profit.

People buy and run football clubs (and any other sporting clubs) for a lot of reasons, be it to show off their wealth or because of the love for their team. It is only foolishly done because they want to make money - didn't Alan Sugar say that it was just a money pit? In some ways SISU have (dare I say it) turned us around from being a club that haemorrhaged money to one that makes a manageable loss, they have however really fucked the club up in the process and by losing fans have really hurt the dna of the club. I just hope, everyday that somehow someone can wrestle the club away from them and allow for something more positive to happen.

 

[SkyBlue79]

They went down the bond route as they would never be lent that sum by a bank

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At the time the value of the business was less than the amount borrowed so even if the bank loaned the money, it certainly wouldn't be loaned with that rate of interest.

 

[Captain Dart]

They went down the bond route as they would never be lent that sum by a bank

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They screwed up on the interest they pay, the bond was over subscribed so I believe they could have got away with a 5% rate.
If interest rates go up substantially in the next few years refinancing that bond is going to be 'challenging'.

 

[Astute]

See, from this I cannot quite get my head around why they took the option of a bond issue at 6.5% interest as the best method of raising capital. Could they be looking at higher interest if they look to refinance via a bank? If so, that poses a very clear picture of the anticipated risk involved and with all seemingly not going completely to plan, I sense they could end up chasing their debt round in circles whilst never being able to repay.

Secured Bonds

Don't click on any links. Just scroll down to the part that says 'key risks' That should explain it for you.

 

[SBAndy]

Secured Bonds

Don't click on any links. Just scroll down to the part that says 'key risks' That should explain it for you.

That is essentially what I'm getting at. A decision like that does not exude confidence in the business' decision.

 

[Astute]

That is essentially what I'm getting at. A decision like that does not exude confidence in the business' decision.

It looked dodgy from the start. Richardson taking an extra 10m in bonds so he could have the money himself and also a few million extra to make the first few interest payments said a lot. About half of the money raised by the bond issue was nothing to do with the cost of taking the arena over. If it was just for that it would have been more affordable.

 

[Grendel]

Richardson has subsequently lent back another £4 million hasn’t he?

 

[Grendel]

He laughed when I said Wasps were in the frame to buy it.

They haven’t bought it - they’ve piled debt against it - you know the thing a certain other hedge fund were going to apparently do.

Then it was a community asset that should be protected from such beastly activity.

What changed?

 

[Grendel]

I read it as the figures were up to December 2016.
It says they are allowed to refinance in 2019 and it looks like they are suggesting they will.
I have no idea how it has gone since they were in profit of 1.5 million 11 months ago.
I don’t take really any interest in them or their finances, I assume by your response you no longer think they are making a profit?

You take no interest in their finances but try and claim they are in profit when they are not

Right

 

[Grendel]

Why is it ridiculous for people to hate the team that shoe horned themselves into the stadium that was built for our football club?

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I think schmeee has joined the wasps forum.

Real fans welcome them, admire them no longer give free tickets, great to have you here blah blah

 

[chiefdave]

It’s not ridiculous, however I do it find it a bit odd when some seem to have more anger towards Wasps for taking advantage, than they do towards those who created the opportunity for Wasps in the first place.

Its simple for me. Everything SISU did, as bad as they have been, could be undone with new owners up until the point Wasps turned up.

The sale of ACL to Wasps massively decreased the chance of us getting new owners anytime soon and massively decreased the chance of us being a sustainable club in the long term unless someone will basically gift the club a ground.

 

[clint van damme]

So, does the academy deal run out at the end of the season?

Will be interesting to see the length of any deal if we go back there, considering we are supposed to be building our own and AHC will probably want as long as possible.

Of course with so little info coming out the club we could (and do) read into Fishers beard for all the good it’ll do us.



He’s not wrong though is he? Some of the hate is verging on the ridiculous. Live and let live FFS.

he is wrong it's a stupid comment and there's nothing wrong with hating the idea of sports franchising.

 

[dongonzalos]

Its simple for me. Everything SISU did, as bad as they have been, could be undone with new owners up until the point Wasps turned up.

The sale of ACL to Wasps massively decreased the chance of us getting new owners anytime soon and massively decreased the chance of us being a sustainable club in the long term unless someone will basically gift the club a ground.

Agree with all of that but SISU are still the ones who forced that situation.
If they had just bid when they were repeatedly asked to instead of continuing drive the price down. Even when they are warned bid by January or someone else will be coming in and that is your opportunity gone. They still continued to try and drive the price down further.

It’s kind of like someone punching someone to the floor intending to rob them of their wallet. As they go to grab the wallet the victim swings one last punch defending himself and they both begin to struggle.
In the struggle the wallet flies across the floor to the feet of a bloke who was walking past.
The victim shouts at that bloke take my wallet I would rather you have it than this idiot who attacked me.
The 3rd bloke sees his chance takes advantage of the situation and runs off with the wallet.
The 3rd bloke is still out of order.
However to hold him as the person to be the most hated as he took advantage over the bloke who tried to rob the victim in the first place.
I don’t teally get.

It’s quite clear SISU are the most to blame in this. Then the council for allowing it to escalate.
Then Wasps for shafting their own fans (Not us)
Yet on here for many Wasps take the most flack, followed by the council, then the Higgs charity, then the CET, fellow fans and then finally SISU.
The only person who doesn’t get shit is Cov Rugby club

 

[dongonzalos]

You take no interest in their finances but try and claim they are in profit when they are not

Right

Take no interest in their finances googled Wasps finances as I don’t know a lot about it and read this thread where people on here are saying they are fucked so wanted to see what the score is.
The above article was the most recent thing to come up.
Where several experts reviewed their accounts which said they turned a 1.5 million profit in December 2016 (11 months ago) apparently this is very good in the circumstances.
It also says Wasps intend to refinance when they are allowed to in 2019.
Posted the article
You say the experts are wrong.
That’s pretty much it for me.
Your posting history in which you get most things wrong. Tells me to listen to the experts then see what the experts say next time Wasps release their accounts.
No disrespect but you were adamant we would move to Northampton. That no one would buy the Ricoh. That there is a smoking gun. That SISU wanted to lose the legal action.
That we should never have agreed a rental deal.
That Wasps were not affected in anyway by the legal action.
So I take most of what you with a pinch of salt these days.

 

[Grendel]

Take no interest in their finances googled Wasps finances as I don’t know a lot about it and read this thread where people on here are saying they are fucked so wanted to see what the score is.
The above article was the most recent thing to come up.
Where several experts reviewed their accounts which said they turned a 1.5 million profit in December 2016 (11 months ago) apparently this is very good in the circumstances.
It also says Wasps intend to refinance when they are allowed to in 2019.
Posted the article
You say the experts are wrong.
That’s pretty much it for me.
Your posting history in which you get most things wrong. Tells me to listen to the experts then see what the experts say next time Wasps release their accounts.
No disrespect but you were adamant we would move to Northampton. That no one would buy the Ricoh. That there is a smoking gun. That SISU wanted to lose the legal action.
That we should never have agreed a rental deal.
That Wasps were not affected in anyway by the legal action.
So I take most of what you with a pinch of salt these days.

Wasps hit record £17m turnover in latest accounts but lose £1.1m


It was a loss - also im pretty certain what you are referring to is after the injection of a further loan from Derek Richardson - £3 or £4 million I believe

I also repeat no one has bought the Ricoh. According to you it was a community asset that a company should not buy as a distressed asset and should not like debt above and beyond it’s true worth.

I also seem to recall a lot of outrage that s children’s charity should not be allowed to leave without getting what they wanted and a hedge fund trying to distress and force a lower value would be vile and beneath contempt.

Strangely your view of what’s good bad, moral or immoral, good business practice or bad business practice seems to have changed.

I’ll let everyone form their conclusions as to why this might be.

 

[chiefdave]

It was a loss

You also have to factor in that they borrowed money to make the first few interest payments on the bonds so on top of turning round that loss they also need to find the money to make the interest payments.

That's a hell of a lot of extra business to bring in when we were repeatedly told that ACL was having its most successful year ever. How much room is there for further improvement?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Yes. But then we get into the argument of who are the biggest shitcunts. Which has been done a million times.
I hate sisu. They're useless fuckers.
I hate wasps they're stadium stealing cretins.
I hate the council. They fucked our football club over for years. Then sold the ground that was built for our football club to the stadium stealing cretins.
Everyone are cunts except for every single one of our long suffering fans. The ones that followed us to Sixfields. The ones who boycotted because of Sixfields. The NOPM'ers. The ones that still go now to follow the dross that's served up. We've been royally fucked over and it stinks.

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I think you might just have won 'Post of 2017'. Well done. Internet pat on the back for you.

 

[Ian1779]

Agree with all of that but SISU are still the ones who forced that situation.
If they had just bid when they were repeatedly asked to instead of continuing drive the price down. Even when they are warned bid by January or someone else will be coming in and that is your opportunity gone. They still continued to try and drive the price down further.

It’s kind of like someone punching someone to the floor intending to rob them of their wallet. As they go to grab the wallet the victim swings one last punch defending himself and they both begin to struggle.
In the struggle the wallet flies across the floor to the feet of a bloke who was walking past.
The victim shouts at that bloke take my wallet I would rather you have it than this idiot who attacked me.
The 3rd bloke sees his chance takes advantage of the situation and runs off with the wallet.
The 3rd bloke is still out of order.
However to hold him as the person to be the most hated as he took advantage over the bloke who tried to rob the victim in the first place.
I don’t teally get.

It’s quite clear SISU are the most to blame in this. Then the council for allowing it to escalate.
Then Wasps for shafting their own fans (Not us)
Yet on here for many Wasps take the most flack, followed by the council, then the Higgs charity, then the CET, fellow fans and then finally SISU.
The only person who doesn’t get shit is Cov Rugby club

Please find a single shred of evidence that says the Ricoh was ever for sale at a fair and reasonable price. £24m for the F&B rights at one point wasn't it??

SISU should have got the deal done before they even took over, another one of their mistakes. But once that error was made it was never on the table, certainly not for a price that was fair or that wouldn't have crippled another owner.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

It’s quite clear SISU are the most to blame in this. Then the council for allowing it to escalate.
Then Wasps for shafting their own fans (Not us)
Yet on here for many Wasps take the most flack, followed by the council, then the Higgs charity, then the CET, fellow fans and then finally SISU.
The only person who doesn’t get shit is Cov Rugby club

Dong, take a look at post #177..

 

[Hobo]

They haven’t bought it - they’ve piled debt against it - you know the thing a certain other hedge fund were going to apparently do.

Then it was a community asset that should be protected from such beastly activity.

What changed?

Wasps submitted their plans around development of the site SISU wouldn't.

 

[SBAndy]

Wasps submitted their plans around development of the site SISU wouldn't.

And that has amounted to.........?

 

[Esoterica]

Wasps submitted their plans around development of the site SISU wouldn't.

Genuine question, how much of that has been achieved?

 

[Captain Dart]

And that has amounted to.........?

I think they spent some money on pitch improvements.

Amusingly there are rumours of Wasps players becoming pissed off by having to change in portacabins at their Broadstreet facility.
DrunkenWasps.com - Training Base

 

[Nick]

I think they spent some money on pitch improvements.

Maintaining the pitch is hardly the same as developing is it?

What plans did they submit for the Ricoh? They did for the Higgs, but look how they materialised.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wasps submitted their plans around development of the site SISU wouldn't.

They have submitted nothing of the sort. No planning applications, no outline planning applications. No plans at all, just hot air that the drips at the council fell for.