Possible outcomes of the JR (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

Without breaking into debate lets see how many possible outcomes we can come up for the JR. One post each.

Sisu lose the JR only to miraculously come up with some fresh evidence allowing them to lodge an appeal.





PS. you can tell it's a wet bank holiday, can't you.

 

---

[shmmeee]

The judge orders Seppala and Lucas to be handcuffed together until a deal is reached, leading to the comedy hit of the summer: Bensons & Hedges

 

[Samo]

I wake up to find this has all been a horrible dream.

 

[percy]

Without breaking into debate lets see how many possible outcomes we can come up for the JR. One post each.

Sisu lose the JR only to miraculously come up with some fresh evidence allowing them to lodge an appeal.





PS. you can tell it's a wet bank holiday, can't you.

be boring without the debate. it would mean that everyone would be predicting the same outcome wouldnt it ?

 

[Spionkop]

I'm puzzled why a few people seem to think the JR is not that significant.
Hoping that the judge throws the Sisu case out and they come to their senses and do a deal.

 

[Samo]

I'm puzzled why a few people seem to think the JR is not that significant.
Hoping that the judge throws the Sisu case out and they come to their senses and do a deal.

If the judge does throw it out, SISU are left with 3 options
1. Do a deal.
2. Admin/Liquidation
3. Build.
As 3 seems very unlikely it would seem to be either 1 (the only possible route to eventual return on investment) or 2 (which seems the most likely outcome to me)

 

[Astute]

Wet bank holiday?

Stuck at work and very warm here

It is all down to if SISU have any more ideas on how to get the freehold. To me if not they will have to negotiate. Otherwise they will have made a huge loss instead of an investment.

 

[Ian1779]

It never gets to court. They do a deal on the steps outside.

 

[Jack Griffin]

If the judge does throw it out, SISU are left with 3 options
1. Do a deal.
2. Admin/Liquidation
3. Build.
As 3 seems very unlikely it would seem to be either 1 (the only possible route to eventual return on investment) or 2 (which seems the most likely outcome to me)

4 Sell up.

Frankly I think they've painted themselves in a corner, unless there is some earth shattering revelation at the JR what can they do, there is no way to recover their losses, all they can do is pump more money into a lower division football club, which will struggle to regain the status it had when they came in, or accept a humiliating compromise. I'm hoping they just give up, sell on to someone else and go.

 

[Samo]

4 Sell up.

Frankly I think they've painted themselves in a corner, unless there is some earth shattering revelation at the JR what can they do, there is no way to recover their losses, all they can do is pump more money into a lower division football club, which will struggle to regain the status it had when they came in, or accept a humiliating compromise. I'm hoping they just give up, sell on to someone else and go.

And accept Hoffman's pound? Who would may any more?

 

[Grendel]

And accept Hoffman's pound? Who would may any more?

The club is worthless. It has no ground and no hope of a deal which would show any likely route to prosperity.

Unless someone can purchase the ACL business and the club its unlikely that they will still remain in business.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Just as the judge is about to announce his verdict he suffers a fatal coronary and the JR goes to a replay at a date to be confirmed.

P.S. if the judge is reading this I don't really want you to have a coronary.

 

[Grendel]

There is I suppose a possibility that evidence is allowed in the JR that sisu can then use to commence proceedings in another court on another day.

 

[Calista]

There is I suppose a possibility that evidence is allowed in the JR that sisu can then use to commence proceedings in another court on another day.

This is a very depressing prospect, but seems entirely possible to me.

 

[Grendel]

This is a very depressing prospect, but seems entirely possible to me.

This I am sure is why they are doing this.

 

[italiahorse]

The club is worthless. It has no ground and no hope of a deal which would show any likely route to prosperity.

Unless someone can purchase the ACL business and the club its unlikely that they will still remain in business.

With the current team playing at the Ricoh even I could make a profit.

 

[Kingokings204]

I think ccc will "win" if that's how we want to call it and sisu will either sell up or do a deal.

I really think it's as simple as that.

 

[Spionkop]

King, hope you're right. So hope you're right.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

My fear is that SISU will liquidate and vanish... at the end of the day they are only interested in their investors and don't give a k**k about the supporters. SISU see it only as a business.

 

[skybluetony176]

It never gets to court. They do a deal on the steps outside.

That's a good call. I've been thinking this for a long time but as it's drawn nearer and nearer it seems less likely.

 

[lordsummerisle]

No more "Possible outcome of the JR" threads.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

4 Sell up.

Frankly I think they've painted themselves in a corner, unless there is some earth shattering revelation at the JR what can they do, there is no way to recover their losses, all they can do is pump more money into a lower division football club, which will struggle to regain the status it had when they came in, or accept a humiliating compromise. I'm hoping they just give up, sell on to someone else and go.

The thing for me though Jack is have they really put any money in to the business in the forms of cold hard cash or has it been an exercise in paper money, I personally think the liquidation prospect is better for them so they can offset the loss against profits made on good investments but that's just my theory.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is I suppose a possibility that evidence is allowed in the JR that sisu can then use to commence proceedings in another court on another day.

That's a good call. It's one that had occurred to me but I've been trying to convince myself that there's no chance.

Sort of worried now that someone else has considered it. Even if it is you grendull ;-)

 

[ccfcway]

There is I suppose a possibility that evidence is allowed in the JR that sisu can then use to commence proceedings in another court on another day.

would certainly explain why the club have been saying that it doesnt all hang on this JR

 

[ccfcway]

SISU dont turn up on the day, as they refused to acknowldege that its in Birmingham court, as they have narrowed it down to 2 or 3 courts, but dont want to reveal the location just yet

 

[Kingokings204]

Ok what's the difference between selling up and liquidation? As in what works better for sisu.

Is selling up better as it's a quick get out and stops the club relegating to league 2 and worth less again.

Or

Liquidation as it mostly could wipe off debts and cease to exist leaving sisu with less hassle to deal with.

I really don't know.

 

[James Smith]

As I understand it this JR is all about the procedures the council should have followed and the actions they should have taken in relation to the ACL refinancing.

So there are a few possibilities (including those already posted) stemming from the courts decision:

a) If the council have done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to Sisu. ACL are not required to hand back loan and until relations thaw or new stadium built we're stuck in Northampton.

b) If the council have done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to Sisu. ACL are not required to hand back loan and we're put up for sale/administration with ARVO getting the lions share of any money from asset sales.

c) If the council haven't done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to the council. Judge rules that if correct procedures etc. are followed next time then the loan will be valid. ACL get new loan off the council which is lawful and until relations thaw or new stadium built we're stuck in Northampton.

d) If the council haven't done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to the council. Judge rules that council cannot just loan ACL the money again and ACL have to hand back the loan. ACL get new loan (probably at slightly higher rates) off of a commercial lender and unless they default on that loan until relations thaw or new stadium built we're stuck in Northampton.

e) If the council haven't done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to the council. Judge rules that council cannot just loan ACL the money again and ACL have to hand back the loan. ACL can't get new loan (even at slightly higher rates) off of a commercial lender and they have to hand back the lease to the council. They put the lease out for bids and who knows who might bid for it - could just be Sisu or them and others who are interested (not ruling out a joint bid but suggesting that there could be more than one bidder).

i) Sisu put in highest bid and we return to Ricoh, whilst dismantling IEC and giving us the Pie money.

ii) Someone else puts in a higher bid than Sisu and obtains the lease. Until a deal can be struck (or Sisu launch a sucessful legal challenge of the bidding process) or new stadium is built we're stuck in Northampton.


f) If the council haven't done everything correctly and the Judge agrees then the outcome is not favourable to the council. Judge rules that council cannot just loan ACL the money again and ACL have to hand back the loan. ACL can't get new loan (even at slightly higher rates) off of a commercial lender and they have to hand back the lease to the council. They put the entire property freehold up for sale and who knows who might bid for it - could just be Sisu or them and others who are interested (again not ruling out a joint bid e.g. with AEG but suggesting that there could be more than one bidder).

i) Sisu put in highest bid and we return to Ricoh, whilst dismantling IEC possibly installing AEG and giving us the Pie money.

ii) Someone else puts in a higher bid than Sisu and obtains the freehold. Until a deal can be struck (or Sisu launch a sucessful legal challenge of the bidding process) or new stadium is built we're stuck in Northampton.

Bound to be more though feel free to add to the list. All quite depressing as we're unlikely to return to Coventry any time soon under most outcomes and one could see the end of our club.

 

[ccfcway]

Ok what's the difference between selling up and liquidation? As in what works better for sisu.

Is selling up better as it's a quick get out and stops the club relegating to league 2 and worth less again.

Or

Liquidation as it mostly could wipe off debts and cease to exist leaving sisu with less hassle to deal with.

I really don't know.

well administration didnt wipe off the debts

 

[Kingokings204]

well administration didnt wipe off the debts

I don't know but isn't this the whole point of an admin normally with new owners however we didn't get new owners and still stuck with Otium.

 

[Astute]

When SISU finally leave it will be by the way that gives them the most money. If it is close to two ways and one of them is liquidation then I would say that they would liquidate our club. The reason for thinking this is for future deals when they start litigation with other sides. It would show that they are willing to do anything.

 

[ccfcway]

I don't know but isn't this the whole point of an admin normally with new owners however we didn't get new owners and still stuck with Otium.

"normally"

thats the one....

 

[italiahorse]

well administration didnt wipe off the debts

... and the JR costs is being taken out of club funds.

 

[James Smith]

... and the JR costs is being taken out of club funds.

Mr Labovitch said on CWR that the JR wouldn't affect the club and I assumed he was talking financially. Whether you believe him or not is a different matter.

 

[magic82ball]

Perhaps someone could help me out a little here but assuming SISU win the JR, how does that then translate to them getting the freehold? Why would ACL not just pay back the loan through a refinance agreement elsewhere? I thought their books were better post CCFC leaving?

 

[ccfcway]

Mr Labovitch said on CWR that the JR wouldn't affect the club and I assumed he was talking financially. Whether you believe him or not is a different matter.

Well, the club took the decision to withhold the rent, not SISU, so how would he know what would affect the club ?