dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
How's the Cov (Franchise) Blaze doing these days?
Tbf, he'd have to join the back of the queue behind you, shmmeee, mmm, dongo...
I have said that a number of times already.
It will be owned by investors in a company outside the SBS&L group (could even be inside, but less likely).
The club (Otium) will own another company - a stadium management company that lease the stadium and operate it 24/7/365.
The club will pay rent to the stadium management company but in return gain access to all revenue streams generated in the stadium (complex).
It compares to:
Investors owning the Ricoh and leasing it to ACL who operate it and the club paying rent to play there. Only the club does not own ACL the access to income streams is limited.
Agree.
The Premier League TV deal has just created the only possible solution for SISU to get the investors money back.
Getting to sixth in the championship and selling the club for 50-60 million would be the only resolution for me.
What is the ling term resolution via a new stadium?
So when it comes to selling the club, presumably the stadium owner will be sold alongside the SBS&L group. So any potential future owner will have to be willing to take on a company with £30m+ debts, with no income streams?
Ok lets plunge the club millions in debt and move it out of the city because of the colour of the seats (which when Mark Robins proposed a few years ago half of the posters on here thought it was a good idea anyway).
As you say its down to what Wasps are prepared to do. So your solution seems to be lets not talk to Wasps and then that way they will give CCFC everything.
That fat tub of lard posing as CCFC chairman should be kissing Nick Eastwood's arse 24/7 in trying to get the best deal for CCFC.
No income streams???
No that's not my solution. My solution is we need to keep ALL options open and until we see the business plans for ALL options we need to keep an open. There's quite a few (Don and Italia included) that think we should sack off the the new stadium and take any deal we can from wasps, I would at least like to see a proper business case for all options. And as much as I throw spanners/issues into the mix when discussions dealing with wasps, I've never said that the new stadium is the best or only option.
And actually be shirts/empty seats thing was utter bollocks, it's going to look even more ridiculous on TV with our half empty stadium and a load of black and gold empty seats.
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What I am saying is the Monopoly money (debt) we are going to blow on our share of the new stadium, blow it on half of ACL and a crack at 6th in the championship instead..
If we are going to increase our debt on the new stadium idea why not try it on an idea that will more likely lead to a 50-60 million pound return.
I don't see much if any extra risk to ccfc if sisu are planning to build a new stadium using more money from sisu investors, I just don't believe there is any chance of it happening. The only way I can see it is if the money comes from investors that don't realise what is happening, they give there money to sisu expecting them to invest it for them and the money gets used to build a new stadium with almost zero chance of a return for the investors but helping sisu to get more of their own money back by selling the lot as a package, imo this would be near criminal behaviour and so I don't see any chance of a new stadium being built.
Well the stadium management company gets to keep all the income streams apparently, so what income will the stadium owner receive?
Yes, that's the reality. The shares and the debt is worth nothing to the owners with the state the club is in. Long record of suffering financial losses, no assets worth mentioning, the rent may be low but it's only set for another three seasons and the income streams are extremely limited.
On top of that you have the customers fighting the owners launching endless campaigns to make them leave. You have the local council who clearly don't offer any support to the - once - proud football team.
Who in their right mind would take that on?
Sisu is stuck with the club as the club is stuck with sisu. There are in my view no short term resolution.
No that's not my solution. My solution is we need to keep ALL options open and until we see the business plans for ALL options we need to keep an open. There's quite a few (Don and Italia included) that think we should sack off the the new stadium and take any deal we can from wasps, I would at least like to see a proper business case for all options. And as much as I throw spanners/issues into the mix when discussions dealing with wasps, I've never said that the new stadium is the best or only option.
And actually be shirts/empty seats thing was utter bollocks, it's going to look even more ridiculous on TV with our half empty stadium and a load of black and gold empty seats.
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Lease money? Additional businesses?
How did the 'investors' of the Ricoh recoup their investment? Or rather - how did they intend to recoup their investments?
Like some super rich dudes in the Caribbean?
There is so much money in this world that if sisu manage to put together a reasonable business plan they will not find it hard to get it financed.
Of course it will help if the complex include some additional customers - like a hotel, some houses, an IKEA or anything that ensure the whole plan doesn't depend on just one customer.
I haven't heard a decent point from anyone yet how building a new stadium will have better chance of SISU getting their investment back. In comparison to spending the same money on trying to get to sixth in the Championship.
There is no reasonable business plan, thats my point, the risk of this project is massive and the chance and amount of return don't justify it, super rich guy in the caribbean may well be willing to put 30mill into a high risk investment where you could lose it all, but if you do that it needs to have a massive upside if it does work this doesn't at all. There is already a better stadium here that they don't believe is worth a small fraction of what is needed to build a new one, how can this make sense?
I haven't heard a decent point to how spending money trying to finish 6th without the guaranteed of finishing 6th let along gaining promotion is in the best interests in the club in the medium to long term, without properly sorting out the infrastructure of the club.
Leicester's owner spend around £125m over 3 1/2 years to gain promotion to the PL. From league One £11m isn't enough.
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But we won't get anywhere near 6th with £11m when it's used in league one for promotion then a crack at too 6 championship. It won't touch the sides. The when we fail to get back to back promotions - then what?
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They spent 25 million on players over 3 seasons.
I am talking about getting 6th and the moment you do, sell up.
Since taking over Leicester in 2010, King Power, the Thai duty free company owned by Aiyawatt Raksriaksorn, has since spent around £120m on the club, including financing a £30m loss in 2011-12. (Guardian 26 Feb 2014 a Leicester still in the Championship - http://www.theguardian.com/football...lay-championship-clubs-threat-football-league)
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It did with Bournemouth so why not?
The 11 million is purely just on the playing squad you keep forgetting that.
Or
20 million if you ditch the buying halve of ACL bit.
It's a crazy gamble spending 50mill+ trying to get to the premiership, you could easily lose it all and fail. However there is large rewards for success. Despite thinking it's a crazy idea I'm sure it makes more financial sense that building a new stadium.
No their £15m losses were just getting promoted from league one (2012/13), we will find out shortly how much they losses last year to finish 10th, and then you need to add what they've spent this season to get in the top 6. So from the postion we're currently in I'd estimate they have spend at least x3 the £11m you suggest.
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Pretty sure Bournemouth reached 6th after xmas last season before eventually finishing tenth.
The point they got to sixth would be the selling point for me. Which is the point from which you should judge what they spent in wages and transfers fees to get their from league one.
Since taking over Leicester in 2010, King Power, the Thai duty free company owned by Aiyawatt Raksriaksorn, has since spent around £120m on the club, including financing a £30m loss in 2011-12. (Guardian 26 Feb 2014 a Leicester still in the Championship - http://www.theguardian.com/football...lay-championship-clubs-threat-football-league)
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You're not making any sense. So we spend £5-6m injected equity and transfers to get out of league one, that leaves £6-7m for the championship? Which we know is about enough just to avoid relegation if it's all spent on wages and operating losses? Perhaps we could get Boothroyd in be too 6th after 5-6 games and sell up then? How much do you realistic think someone is going to to pay for a club that owns half a stadium, has significant debts, making losses and not guaranteed to get promoted?
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How will building a new stadium put the club in more debts?
The numbers of the original offer don't work.
You state that £7mil must be paid off the £14mil debt, and that leaves CCFC with £3.5mil debt. Basically this means that Wasps have to pay down the debt before it is split, otherwise £3.5mil of the debt that Wasps just paid off should have ended up with CCFC. So in effect you're handing over £9mil, but saying that you want £3.5mil straight back (in terms of reduced debt). So the offer is £5.5mil, whilst taking on half the remaining debt. It's still the same price that Wasps paid.
Any way you try and swing the numbers, the offer is no better than offering Wasps the amount they just paid.
Because in the same deal in which they guarantee to cut the loan. We guarantee to invest 11 million in our playing squad.
Which would (if done correctly) would lead to us winning league one at a canter and competing for 6th in the championship.
We would know one way or the other if we'd seen a detailed business plan but our owners don't hold us in a high enough regard to do this but regardless of course building a new stadium will put more debt in the club. Reason, regardless of whatever any business plan might say it's still SISU who will be building it and I would have thought by now every CCFC fan would have realised that that means it's going to be a disaster, over-run, over-spend and be underinvested. So there's going to be a shortfall, debt if you like. So who's going to pick up the tab for that debt? SISU's investors? Or lumped as debt against CCFC?
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