Price on the club !!! (1 Viewer)

Ibby · Oct 26, 2016

How much does the club worth now ? Why have they been no buyers as yet.

Deleted member 2477 · Oct 26, 2016

You really need to ask !!

ajsccfc · Oct 26, 2016

No buyers is largely because there are no sellers.

Kingokings204 · Oct 26, 2016

Ibby said:
How much does the club worth now ? Why have they been no buyers as yet.

2 questions you ask. Here are two answers.

1. The club is worthless just the solitary pound currently with the amount of debt on the club currently around 35million pounds I believe?

2. There has been no buyers because there is nothing to buy. There are people wanting to take it on we are told but they want sisu to go rather than sell.

So to sum up sisu won't sell the club until it has some value I.e win a promotion or fluke a court case or sell ryton? Either that or someone offers a silly amount and that won't happen because they are sane. We are stuck with sisu until they see fit to ditch us. What we have to do is make sure we are here and supporting the club when they have finally left us most likely in a worse position than now.

Harry Krishner · Oct 26, 2016

No assets = no value

All that is left is the goodwill of the fans, some potential advertising/TV revenue......that's about it. When sisu eventually try to offload the place, they'll probably try to sell the "prestige of owning an English league club" or some such bullshit.

clint van damme · Oct 26, 2016

Would I be right to say the club has two values, the real world value, zero, and the value it has on sisus books, or the debt attached to it has on sisus book?

rupert_bear · Oct 26, 2016

There are some assets though. Players have value for example, especially some of the youngsters. So sisu ain't going to sell the club for the much said pound for a new owner to sell a player for half a million. But we could now do with an interested party, if there is one, to declare their possible interest, I think that would add spice to the sisu out campaign, at the moment it all looks stagnant.

I'm not too sure of the post administration rules but I'm certain that Otium Entertainment can't just pile debt back on. It's a common theme on here we have anything from £30 to £60million+debts.

I think Otium would have to demonstrate where that debt from a standing start has come from.

pipkin73 · Oct 26, 2016

I started a thread on this ages ago, some seriously rich people i met out here. Anyway to cut a long story short after i gave them OSB's version of the accounts and my oppinion of SISU i never heard from them again.

There are people who want us, who will inject money in to us but SISU just won't allow this. They want some more money back and untill they do the club can do one. The problem is we keep creating some very good players so whilst they can be sold SISU won't go. Look at our Under 23's, now top of the league with 7 consecutive games won.

chiefdave · Oct 26, 2016

The clubs debt is far larger than the value of the assets it owns. However that debt is all to SISU and related companies so the question is how much would it take for them to walk and write all that debt off. My personal opinion is that if you made a serious offer of £15m you'd be in the right ballpark.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 26, 2016

I am sure SISU would love £15m CD but cant think of any reason why anyone rational would pay that much.

Otium bought CCFC Ltd assets for £1.5m including Golden share, some continuing contracts £466k and a rates rebate of around £400k I think . So half of that £1.5m no longer exists. To add to that you have the trademarks and the value of the current squad £2m? and the current use value of Ryton plus equipment & fittings owned in Otium - £450k. There may be some debtors/cash but they will be more than matched by the normal trade creditors I suspect. Not sure there is any current goodwill to add as a premium - if there is it is not much. If I were an investor I wouldn't touch it at that price of £15m. Not sure I see more than £3 m value for any prospective purchaser and they would still expect SISU/ARVO to take the hit on their loans & preference shares at any value. Then there is of course the additional working capital for any new owner to put in at any purchase price plus undertaking to the FL

Then you start talking discounts because no long term base to play or for the Academy, the poor history, the uncertain market, the disconnect with fans etc etc

I would think SISU would snatch their hands off at £15m and run away very quickly....... not going to happen in my opinion. If it did you would have to question the business acumen of the purchaser I think, because it might point to problems to come

oldskyblue58 · Oct 26, 2016

Ibby said:
How much does the club worth now ? Why have they been no buyers as yet.

The shares of Otium are worth nothing and it is not for sale

You could buy the assets and football related liabilities (FL requirement) but not Otium shares - see above as to values

stevefloyd · Oct 26, 2016

This post ....straws and clutching spring to mind

Paxman II · Oct 27, 2016

I was just thinking about this process of not if and when but how do you sell a football club with no tangible assets?(other than a player or two of negligible worth)

Who say would purchase CCFC for £1 and take on the debt? Bit of a Philip Green scenario there right?

Rather than protesting SISU out I can't see any alternative on the horizon until by hook or by crook we get promoted and increase our financial base.
Probably why even the likes of Hoffman and various cronies have no 'get in' for CCFC at this time.

Think we should be 'reverse' thinking this one for now and try and support as much as possible to get to a point where real promotion may be possible and that will then make us somewhat attractive to a few investors.
Protesting SISU out is so counter productive, short sighted and unhelpful surely?

oucho · Oct 27, 2016

Gee, we haven't seen a thread like this before....

Paxman II · Oct 27, 2016

ha didn't see this thread before I posted.

Colin Steins Smile · Oct 27, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
I am sure SISU would love £15m CD but cant think of any reason why anyone rational would pay that much.

Otium bought CCFC Ltd assets for £1.5m including Golden share, some continuing contracts £466k and a rates rebate of around £400k I think . So half of that £1.5m no longer exists. To add to that you have the trademarks and the value of the current squad £2m? and the current use value of Ryton plus equipment & fittings owned in Otium - £450k. There may be some debtors/cash but they will be more than matched by the normal trade creditors I suspect. Not sure there is any current goodwill to add as a premium - if there is it is not much. If I were an investor I wouldn't touch it at that price of £15m. Not sure I see more than £3 m value for any prospective purchaser and they would still expect SISU/ARVO to take the hit on their loans & preference shares at any value. Then there is of course the additional working capital for any new owner to put in at any purchase price plus undertaking to the FL

Then you start talking discounts because no long term base to play or for the Academy, the poor history, the uncertain market, the disconnect with fans etc etc

I would think SISU would snatch their hands off at £15m and run away very quickly....... not going to happen in my opinion. If it did you would have to question the business acumen of the purchaser I think, because it might point to problems to come

The value depends on SISU's view on the next court case. They must think that there is a possibility of a significant return....circa £20M+ if they win the case.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 28, 2016

Colin Steins Smile said:
The value depends on SISU's view on the next court case. They must think that there is a possibility of a significant return....circa £20M+ if they win the case.

Why ?
The club is Otium trading as CCFC. You do not need to buy SBS&L
Otium is not involved in JR1 and is named on JR2 only
JR2 hasn't started and seems to be dependent on success in JR1.
The JR's do not achieve any funds for SISU they would need to win those cases then take a claim for damages to court and that will be well north of £20m
To pay £20m for CCFC must mean that you buy the rights to the slim chance of success in court by continuing the action - why would you do that? Why would you want to spend all that time learning the case, employing barristers etc on the very small hope it might work? Why would SISU give that up?
Not at all certain that Otium or its assets being sold stops SISU from continuing the JR1 or even JR2. So any compensation claim would still be SISU/ARVO/SBS&L for loss on their investment during the time they owned it
Can you actually sell such compensation rights on, especially as Otium not part of JR1? Would you if you don't need to own CCFC anymore to make a claim?
The court case is not actually dependent on CCFC anymore so adds no value to CCFC - if it ever did
Investment wise then SISU's annual evaluation for ARVO & Sconset has to be £nil doesn't it?
Then everything I said in the first post still stands

Bottom line it is not for sale, and has very little value to a purchaser. SISU can want any figure they like but they wont get it unless there is perceived value to back it up - there isn't and having come this far then SISU wont let go the compensation rights

skybluetony176 · Oct 28, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Why ?
The club is Otium trading as CCFC. You do not need to buy SBS&L
Otium is not involved in JR1 and is named on JR2 only
JR2 hasn't started and seems to be dependent on success in JR1.
The JR's do not achieve any funds for SISU they would need to win those cases then take a claim for damages to court and that will be well north of £20m
To pay £20m for CCFC must mean that you buy the rights to the slim chance of success in court by continuing the action - why would you do that? Why would you want to spend all that time learning the case, employing barristers etc on the very small hope it might work? Why would SISU give that up?
Not at all certain that Otium or its assets being sold stops SISU from continuing the JR1 or even JR2. So any compensation claim would still be SISU/ARVO/SBS&L for loss on their investment during the time they owned it
Can you actually sell such compensation rights on, especially as Otium not part of JR1? Would you if you don't need to own CCFC anymore to make a claim?
The court case is not actually dependent on CCFC anymore so adds no value to CCFC - if it ever did
Investment wise then SISU's annual evaluation for ARVO & Sconset has to be £nil doesn't it?
Then everything I said in the first post still stands

Bottom line it is not for sale, and has very little value to a purchaser. SISU can want any figure they like but they wont get it unless there is perceived value to back it up - there isn't and having come this far then SISU wont let go the compensation rights

My understanding is that the JR's (Certainly JR1) deals with a very specific time frame of events. If SISU sell after these event's would it effect there claim to compensation for events that happened during this time frame? I suspect not. You could even argue that if they sold the club and had to write of a load of debt in the process this could even help with a compensation claim should they win. Maybe any new buyer could have an agreement where the club relinquishes any claim to any compensation won as a result of a JR victory, should there have been any right by the club to this in the first place.

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