Questions that I genuinely can't answer (4 Viewers)

[Cally Fedora]

I’m not saying our players are bad. But if you’ve got Thomas, Kitching, Latibeaudiere for instance you’ve got to play to their strengths. The tactic is very high risk and normally very low reward.

 

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[covcity4life]

Be pragmatic and play for results.

Luton stayed up last season did they?

It's absurd to say that you have to be cloggers to stay up in the prem

But hey if u wanna aim low I got good news for you. We ain't going down this year

Rejoice

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sit back, relax, and enjoy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Luton stayed up last season did they?

It's absurd to say that you have to be cloggers to stay up in the prem

But hey if u wanna aim low I got good news for you. We ain't going down this year

Rejoice

Ha, you misunderstand me my friend. It isn’t a question of playing triangles in your own 6 yard box or hoofing to a target man. I want high tempo football with a mix of quick short passes, diagonals, and players carrying the ball forward, with the off the ball movement to match.

Few teams in world football can successfully play out from the back without a big technical advantage over the opposition. We don’t have that, but we do have players who thrive on chasing balls over the top and counter attacking at pace. Let’s play to our strengths.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Luton stayed up last season did they?

It's absurd to say that you have to be cloggers to stay up in the prem

But hey if u wanna aim low I got good news for you. We ain't going down this year

Rejoice

Who is talking about aiming low or being cloggers? Just saying don’t ask your players who are least comfortable on the ball to have the most time with it 30 yards from your own goal. It’s very simple, it’s a totally stupid tactic.

 

[covcity4life]

Ha, you misunderstand me my friend. It isn’t a question of playing triangles in your own 6 yard box or hoofing to a target man. I want high tempo football with a mix of quick short passes, diagonals, and players carrying the ball forward, with the off the ball movement to match.

Few teams in world football can successfully play out from the back without a big technical advantage over the opposition. We don’t have that, but we do have players who thrive on chasing balls over the top and counter attacking at pace. Let’s play to our strengths.

I'm not asking for much different from you then. Time and place for playing out from back. But it does need to be the majority of time these days if you want to be successful that's all

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who is talking about aiming low or being cloggers? Just saying don’t ask your players who are least comfortable on the ball to have the most time with it 30 yards from your own goal. It’s very simple, it’s a totally stupid tactic.

Also he talks about Luton not staying up. Ignoring how little they spent on new players, their results started to really go south once Edwards gave in and tried getting his players to arse around at the back as well. Now it’s screwing them over in this league too.

As I said, play to your strengths. Copying whatever Pep does next isn’t necessary for teams nowhere near the level of his.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm not asking for much different from you then. Time and place for playing out from back. But it does need to be the majority of time these days if you want to be successful that's all

I’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.

 

[covcity4life]

I’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.

I don't think robins wants it to be slow tempo

But for some reason it is and buck stops with him to sort it

 

[skybluecam]

Sit back, relax, and enjoy.

just a meaningless addition to the discussion really. Everyone knows there's risks to playing out from the back.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

just a meaningless addition to the discussion really. Everyone knows there's risks to playing out from the back.

It’s a pretentious and unnecessary risk to take, especially when you’re tasking it to Ben Wilson. Either get the players capable of playing out in one or two touches or find an alternative. We give the ball away from it so often it’s not doing what it’s designed to anyway.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think robins wants it to be slow tempo

But for some reason it is and buck stops with him to sort it

Agreed with you there. Well, it stops with him and the coaches working on it anyway.

 

[skybluecam]

I’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.

Agreed.

I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his touch is not good enough for interplay.

I think we're way too conservative in possession. An interesting stat I found when trying to work us out is that we're currently 22nd in the league for attempted take ons - but 2nd for success rate. Which teams have the most attempted? Sheff Utd & Sunderland... So we're simply not trying to beat a man and open up the space, we're always taking the easy pass. I'd like to see us play a flatter midfield 3, encourage defenders to be immediately looking to pass the ball into midfield, and have Sheaf/Rudoni trying to beat a man and go forward quickly. We very often miss any chance of exploiting the transition.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agreed.

I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his touch is not good enough for interplay.

I think we're way too conservative in possession. An interesting stat I found when trying to work us out is that we're currently 22nd in the league for attempted take ons - but 2nd for success rate. Which teams have the most attempted? Sheff Utd & Sunderland... So we're simply not trying to beat a man and open up the space, we're always taking the easy pass. I'd like to see us play a flatter midfield 3, encourage defenders to be immediately looking to pass the ball into midfield, and have Sheaf/Rudoni trying to beat a man and go forward quickly. We very often miss any chance of exploiting the transition.

Preaching to the converted on that one.

 

[wingy]

Agreed with you there. Well, it stops with him and the coaches working on it anyway.

And the owner!

 

[skyblue025]

Agreed.

I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his touch is not good enough for interplay.

I think we're way too conservative in possession. An interesting stat I found when trying to work us out is that we're currently 22nd in the league for attempted take ons - but 2nd for success rate. Which teams have the most attempted? Sheff Utd & Sunderland... So we're simply not trying to beat a man and open up the space, we're always taking the easy pass. I'd like to see us play a flatter midfield 3, encourage defenders to be immediately looking to pass the ball into midfield, and have Sheaf/Rudoni trying to beat a man and go forward quickly. We very often miss any chance of exploiting the transition.

Palmer often beat his man and carried the ball forward. He wasn't always the best with it after but we miss that option now. Wright and EMC can do it but both play best on the left. Tats can also do it but can't stay fit.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Like Burnley last year they have a way of playing.

What's the alternative? Play like Luton?

No thanks

Well for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.

Secondly, be willing to be flexible. If you rigidly try to play out from the back regardless the opposition know to always press you. And that's when most fuck ups happen. So be willing to play it into space over the top if they press and get a pacy player onto it (ok, with Simms that may prove more difficult but BTA, Bassette, Wright, EMC and Saka should be able to make a fist of it given the right instructions. Do that, teams are more wary to press and you get a bit more time to try and play it out from the back.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.

Secondly, be willing to be flexible. If you rigidly try to play out from the back regardless the opposition know to always press you. And that's when most fuck ups happen. So be willing to play it into space over the top if they press and get a pacy player onto it (ok, with Simms that may prove more difficult but BTA, Bassette, Wright, EMC and Saka should be able to make a fist of it given the right instructions. Do that, teams are more wary to press and you get a bit more time to try and play it out from the back.

Bang on with this.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s a pretentious and unnecessary risk to take, especially when you’re tasking it to Ben Wilson. Either get the players capable of playing out in one or two touches or find an alternative. We give the ball away from it so often it’s not doing what it’s designed to anyway.

But we give the ball away almost 100% of the time from a long kick. If our players can’t pass ten yards why would they be able to pass fifty?

 

[wingy]

Agreed.

I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his t

But we give the ball away almost 100% of the time from a long kick. If our players can’t pass ten yards why would they be able to pass fifty?

As recently as the Blackburn match?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But we give the ball away almost 100% of the time from a long kick. If our players can’t pass ten yards why would they be able to pass fifty?

At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goal

 

[shmmeee]

At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goal

I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.

 

[wingy]

I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.

Don't!!

 

[skybluecam]

I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.

I don’t think it’s as black and white as passing vs hoofball.

Agree with shmmeee that you have to be looking to play short the majority of the time if you want to be successful.

I think our problem is the length of that sequence- rather than making just 1 or 2 passes between defenders and then the ball going forward it often seems to be more like 4/5+, then the opposition is fully reset and much harder to break down.

We certainly shouldn’t be hoofing it over the top but I think we definitely need to be playing it into midfield much quicker.

 

[wingy]

At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goal

Except it's not is it!

 

[Matt smith]

Be pragmatic and play for results.

Some of our best performances and results have been when we’ve let the other team have all the ball, sat in a good shape and hit on transition

We’ve always been a counter attack transitional team in this league, or that’s when we’ve been at our best, I feel we recruit the forwards that suit this style

I definitely feel there’s a conscious effort to play more possession based, but it’s not working

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.

I’ve been clear about how I actually want us to play and it isn’t hoofball. But what I’m saying is about what we do if we can’t get these players to play out from the back in 1-2 touches per player.

 

[covcity4life]

Well for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.

Secondly, be willing to be flexible. If you rigidly try to play out from the back regardless the opposition know to always press you. And that's when most fuck ups happen. So be willing to play it into space over the top if they press and get a pacy player onto it (ok, with Simms that may prove more difficult but BTA, Bassette, Wright, EMC and Saka should be able to make a fist of it given the right instructions. Do that, teams are more wary to press and you get a bit more time to try and play it out from the back.

Yes so like I said you persist till you do it right rather than quitting

 

[Cally Fedora]

But we don’t have the players to get it right. So how long do you persist. There is a huge difference between being a possession based team to one that dicks around on the edge of their own area. It needs to be popped into midfield quickly and accurately from the back. The irony is that playing it at a snails pace between the back four is the least likely way to beat the press that there is.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

They just dilly dally at the back with the ball but quite often there isn’t much ahead to pass to, BTA and Bertie don’t suit this way of play they both look to play off the last man and run in behind and the ball never gets there.

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t think it’s as black and white as passing vs hoofball.

Agree with shmmeee that you have to be looking to play short the majority of the time if you want to be successful.

I think our problem is the length of that sequence- rather than making just 1 or 2 passes between defenders and then the ball going forward it often seems to be more like 4/5+, then the opposition is fully reset and much harder to break down.

We certainly shouldn’t be hoofing it over the top but I think we definitely need to be playing it into midfield much quicker.

I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.

We seem to be so static on the ball that long or short we’re tying one hand behind our back. There’s far bigger issues than how quickly we move forward. Our best counter attacking team had Hamer Vik and O’Hare who could carry the ball, Hamer who could spot and play a 50 years pass quickly and Vik who could fight off an entire back four on his own. We lack all of that now.

Without talent you need a system so players know where to be and where they can pass to. We don’t have that either. All the talk of formation and style seems a little high minded when that’s the case.

 

[alexccfc99]

Be pragmatic and play for results.

I’d argue we tried that at Leeds and we got absolutely obliterated

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.

We seem to be so static on the ball that long or short we’re tying one hand behind our back. There’s far bigger issues than how quickly we move forward. Our best counter attacking team had Hamer Vik and O’Hare who could carry the ball, Hamer who could spot and play a 50 years pass quickly and Vik who could fight off an entire back four on his own. We lack all of that now.

Without talent you need a system so players know where to be and where they can pass to. We don’t have that either. All the talk of formation and style seems a little high minded when that’s the case.

Agreed on the ball carrying point. We've really missed this from Sheaf and whilst he's good at this, he's not one of the best.

After Sheff Wednesday, I ranted and raved about how Sheaf and Eccles are too similar and the stats support this and with all due respect to Eccles, Sheaf is better in about 90% of the categories. Then, you take Hamer's stats from 2022/23 and it paints a picture of why we were so good, he was a league leader; in shots, shot creation, xG/xA, touches in the box, ball carrying with slightly worse defending than Sheaf and Eccles.

References:

Josh Eccles Scouting Report for Last 365 Days Men's Next 14 Competitions | FBref.com

Compare Josh Eccles to others in passing, goal scoring, attacking, defense and more for the Last 365 Days Men's Next 14 Competitions

fbref.com

Ben Sheaf Scouting Report for Last 365 Days Men's Next 14 Competitions | FBref.com

Compare Ben Sheaf to others in passing, goal scoring, attacking, defense and more for the Last 365 Days Men's Next 14 Competitions

fbref.com

Gustavo Hamer Scouting Report for 2022-2023 Championship | FBref.com

 

[itsabuzzard]

I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.

We seem to be so static on the ball that long or short we’re tying one hand behind our back. There’s far bigger issues than how quickly we move forward. Our best counter attacking team had Hamer Vik and O’Hare who could carry the ball, Hamer who could spot and play a 50 years pass quickly and Vik who could fight off an entire back four on his own. We lack all of that now.

Without talent you need a system so players know where to be and where they can pass to. We don’t have that either. All the talk of formation and style seems a little high minded when that’s the case.

Triangles man, triangles.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.

This is exactly it. Too many managers going around copying Pep and embracing a pretentious, over complicated way of playing that relies on you having much better or world class players to pull off.

The classic riposte to this is to then call someone a Sam Allardynosaur who wants to hoof it up to Kyle Hudlin. No-we want to see pass and move and occasionally shoot at the goal.