Cally Fedora
Well-Known Member
I’m not saying our players are bad. But if you’ve got Thomas, Kitching, Latibeaudiere for instance you’ve got to play to their strengths. The tactic is very high risk and normally very low reward.
Luton stayed up last season did they?Be pragmatic and play for results.
Ha, you misunderstand me my friend. It isn’t a question of playing triangles in your own 6 yard box or hoofing to a target man. I want high tempo football with a mix of quick short passes, diagonals, and players carrying the ball forward, with the off the ball movement to match.Luton stayed up last season did they?
It's absurd to say that you have to be cloggers to stay up in the prem
But hey if u wanna aim low I got good news for you. We ain't going down this year
Rejoice
Who is talking about aiming low or being cloggers? Just saying don’t ask your players who are least comfortable on the ball to have the most time with it 30 yards from your own goal. It’s very simple, it’s a totally stupid tactic.Luton stayed up last season did they?
It's absurd to say that you have to be cloggers to stay up in the prem
But hey if u wanna aim low I got good news for you. We ain't going down this year
Rejoice
I'm not asking for much different from you then. Time and place for playing out from back. But it does need to be the majority of time these days if you want to be successful that's allHa, you misunderstand me my friend. It isn’t a question of playing triangles in your own 6 yard box or hoofing to a target man. I want high tempo football with a mix of quick short passes, diagonals, and players carrying the ball forward, with the off the ball movement to match.
Few teams in world football can successfully play out from the back without a big technical advantage over the opposition. We don’t have that, but we do have players who thrive on chasing balls over the top and counter attacking at pace. Let’s play to our strengths.
Also he talks about Luton not staying up. Ignoring how little they spent on new players, their results started to really go south once Edwards gave in and tried getting his players to arse around at the back as well. Now it’s screwing them over in this league too.Who is talking about aiming low or being cloggers? Just saying don’t ask your players who are least comfortable on the ball to have the most time with it 30 yards from your own goal. It’s very simple, it’s a totally stupid tactic.
I’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.I'm not asking for much different from you then. Time and place for playing out from back. But it does need to be the majority of time these days if you want to be successful that's all
I don't think robins wants it to be slow tempoI’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.
just a meaningless addition to the discussion really. Everyone knows there's risks to playing out from the back.Sit back, relax, and enjoy.
It’s a pretentious and unnecessary risk to take, especially when you’re tasking it to Ben Wilson. Either get the players capable of playing out in one or two touches or find an alternative. We give the ball away from it so often it’s not doing what it’s designed to anyway.just a meaningless addition to the discussion really. Everyone knows there's risks to playing out from the back.
Agreed with you there. Well, it stops with him and the coaches working on it anyway.I don't think robins wants it to be slow tempo
But for some reason it is and buck stops with him to sort it
Agreed.I’m asking for us to find something that works for the players we have in the league we’re in. It isn’t slow tempo football played in our own penalty area.
Preaching to the converted on that one.Agreed.
I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his touch is not good enough for interplay.
I think we're way too conservative in possession. An interesting stat I found when trying to work us out is that we're currently 22nd in the league for attempted take ons - but 2nd for success rate. Which teams have the most attempted? Sheff Utd & Sunderland... So we're simply not trying to beat a man and open up the space, we're always taking the easy pass. I'd like to see us play a flatter midfield 3, encourage defenders to be immediately looking to pass the ball into midfield, and have Sheaf/Rudoni trying to beat a man and go forward quickly. We very often miss any chance of exploiting the transition.
And the owner!Agreed with you there. Well, it stops with him and the coaches working on it anyway.
Palmer often beat his man and carried the ball forward. He wasn't always the best with it after but we miss that option now. Wright and EMC can do it but both play best on the left. Tats can also do it but can't stay fit.Agreed.
I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his touch is not good enough for interplay.
I think we're way too conservative in possession. An interesting stat I found when trying to work us out is that we're currently 22nd in the league for attempted take ons - but 2nd for success rate. Which teams have the most attempted? Sheff Utd & Sunderland... So we're simply not trying to beat a man and open up the space, we're always taking the easy pass. I'd like to see us play a flatter midfield 3, encourage defenders to be immediately looking to pass the ball into midfield, and have Sheaf/Rudoni trying to beat a man and go forward quickly. We very often miss any chance of exploiting the transition.
Well for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.Like Burnley last year they have a way of playing.
What's the alternative? Play like Luton?
No thanks
Bang on with this.Well for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.
Secondly, be willing to be flexible. If you rigidly try to play out from the back regardless the opposition know to always press you. And that's when most fuck ups happen. So be willing to play it into space over the top if they press and get a pacy player onto it (ok, with Simms that may prove more difficult but BTA, Bassette, Wright, EMC and Saka should be able to make a fist of it given the right instructions. Do that, teams are more wary to press and you get a bit more time to try and play it out from the back.
It’s a pretentious and unnecessary risk to take, especially when you’re tasking it to Ben Wilson. Either get the players capable of playing out in one or two touches or find an alternative. We give the ball away from it so often it’s not doing what it’s designed to anyway.
Agreed.
I'd say, looking at our front 3, the only player we have that would actually suit a slower build up style with more intricate passing is Sakamoto. He's got the quick feet to do it. Wright and now Bassette clearly absolutely thrive in fast break scenarios where they can exploit their pace and isolate defenders. Simms too is better with more space as his t
As recently as the Blackburn match?But we give the ball away almost 100% of the time from a long kick. If our players can’t pass ten yards why would they be able to pass fifty?
At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goalBut we give the ball away almost 100% of the time from a long kick. If our players can’t pass ten yards why would they be able to pass fifty?
At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goal
Don't!!I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as passing vs hoofball.I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.
Except it's not is it!At least then you’re giving it away a safe distance from your own goal
Some of our best performances and results have been when we’ve let the other team have all the ball, sat in a good shape and hit on transitionBe pragmatic and play for results.
I’ve been clear about how I actually want us to play and it isn’t hoofball. But what I’m saying is about what we do if we can’t get these players to play out from the back in 1-2 touches per player.I still think on balance I’d prefer to keep the ball. The logical end of your argument is hoofball after all. Our issues come from players refusing to move all over the pitch so they can receive a pass. Unless we’re going to sign a bunch of Kyle Hudlins in Jan I can’t see it working for us, would just be wave after wave of attacks against us.
Yes so like I said you persist till you do it right rather than quittingWell for a start we could look to play the way it's intended. As few touches as possible looking to release to the midfield or forwards. Not taking a load of touches and passing it sideways to the other CB. That probably means spending more time in training with the defenders on moving the ball quicker. I wonder if they do training exercises that involve them being pressed heavily as if they were playing at game intensity. And if so do the coaches keep track of how often they succeed and how often they fail to see if they are actually capable of pulling it off.
Secondly, be willing to be flexible. If you rigidly try to play out from the back regardless the opposition know to always press you. And that's when most fuck ups happen. So be willing to play it into space over the top if they press and get a pacy player onto it (ok, with Simms that may prove more difficult but BTA, Bassette, Wright, EMC and Saka should be able to make a fist of it given the right instructions. Do that, teams are more wary to press and you get a bit more time to try and play it out from the back.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as passing vs hoofball.
Agree with shmmeee that you have to be looking to play short the majority of the time if you want to be successful.
I think our problem is the length of that sequence- rather than making just 1 or 2 passes between defenders and then the ball going forward it often seems to be more like 4/5+, then the opposition is fully reset and much harder to break down.
We certainly shouldn’t be hoofing it over the top but I think we definitely need to be playing it into midfield much quicker.
I’d argue we tried that at Leeds and we got absolutely obliteratedBe pragmatic and play for results.
Agreed on the ball carrying point. We've really missed this from Sheaf and whilst he's good at this, he's not one of the best.I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.
We seem to be so static on the ball that long or short we’re tying one hand behind our back. There’s far bigger issues than how quickly we move forward. Our best counter attacking team had Hamer Vik and O’Hare who could carry the ball, Hamer who could spot and play a 50 years pass quickly and Vik who could fight off an entire back four on his own. We lack all of that now.
Without talent you need a system so players know where to be and where they can pass to. We don’t have that either. All the talk of formation and style seems a little high minded when that’s the case.
Triangles man, triangles.I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.
We seem to be so static on the ball that long or short we’re tying one hand behind our back. There’s far bigger issues than how quickly we move forward. Our best counter attacking team had Hamer Vik and O’Hare who could carry the ball, Hamer who could spot and play a 50 years pass quickly and Vik who could fight off an entire back four on his own. We lack all of that now.
Without talent you need a system so players know where to be and where they can pass to. We don’t have that either. All the talk of formation and style seems a little high minded when that’s the case.
This is exactly it. Too many managers going around copying Pep and embracing a pretentious, over complicated way of playing that relies on you having much better or world class players to pull off.I just feel footballs a simple game at its heart. You move into space to receive the ball, you receive the ball, you pass to someone who has moved into space to receive it.
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