D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
More assertions.
Yet not putting weight behind a call to resolution.
How does that help us move forward?
Reasons not to push for an independent mediator and/or arbitrator (1 Viewer)
More assertions.
Yet not putting weight behind a call to resolution.
How does that help us move forward?
Astute
Well-Known Member
More assertions?
Shall I try again. ACL is CCC and Higgs. Higgs have said in public that they have no trust left in SISU and can't see there being a deal now. CCC have said that the Ricoh isn't for sale to Joy. Or was Joy bullshitting?
SISU moved us to Northampton to try and lower the value of the arena. SISU tried to get the Higgs share for 2m. They refused rent free and 150k to try and send ACL to the wall.
Do I have to explain at all how the arena is much more than just a football stadium?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
He hasn't said he doesn't want a resolution has he? His opinion was the divide is so deep between the parties arbitration just wouldn't work.
The first step is getting them both to agree to arbitration...after that there is a long road to be travelled. Even then arbitration would not necessarily be binding.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
And do I have to explain how the process is to rebuild trust?
Do I also have to explain how there are many possible resolutions?
Or, we can carry on with hate, if we're comfortable in negativity.
For somebody who was reserving judgement, you seem very swift to judge...
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Suggest you put yourself forward as arbitrator, in fact I think you have done it yourself, good luck.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It could be binding...
One thing's for sure, they certainly won't agree if we remain in a polarised hell of negativity and destructiveness, where we fill our days with vindictiveness rather than a desire to try and move things forward, and dismiss attempts to resolve because they'll never happen.
Many things far far more serious than a financial dispute have been resolved, yet we seem determined to give in, so we can wallow in our self-pity.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
How do you enforce it to be binding. You are confident you have all the answers, I am right behind you. You become the arbitrator....I will support anyone who can provide a reasonable solution to this scenario.
Yes, where do you get that sisu don't want to pay 'anywhere near it's value'?
What is the value? Nill according to CCC, £13m according to Higgs. Who is right?
Why can't you support an independent valuation?
Why can't you support an independent arbitration?
Is your number 1 priority not to bring the club home?
Is you priority number 2 not to have the club and stadium united?
Or is your only priority to get sisu out and f*ck the rest - even the club?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You don't have to explain it to me. I listen. Then I decide. I know it might be good if it would happen.
So you think SISU will agree to something when they can't decide which direction everything takes? They don't do negotiating. If they would negotiate there would be many different possibilities of an outcome. We all know what they want though.
So we should go to arbitration. Someone decides what the value is. If the value is too high SISU will walk away. If the value is too low ACL will walk away. SISU are only interested in a low valuation as they want to make lots of money out of the deal. Both sides are so far apart and can't see either side agreeing to such. I am not being swift to judge either. If you had been following all this crap closely you would agree with it all.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The resolution doesn't even necessarily have to be that ACL is sold to SISU/the club, if it is found that this is not the 'fairest' solution.
The only reasons, to be honest, that I could see not to do it would be time and cost.
Time? Well... not starting a process and moving towards all-out war has lead to a swift resolution, hasn't it.
Cost? Not ideal, to be debated. Then again, if all parties seem determined to sue one another, it might be better if they used those pots of money constructively. Perhaps there would be a way to factor the cost into any final deal?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Who is right? Higgs as it is there share to sell. Until that changes why should they sell for less than they want. The same applies to Otium/SISU with the club....independent valuations are opinions and actually have no value unless one of them goes into administration and it is taken out of there hands. so get off your high horse it is lame.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
How could a mediator force either Sisu to buy or the council to sell?
Someone could negotiate a deal, but unless sisu are serious about buying for a fair price, and the council and higgs selling, then it would be pointless.
Someone could negotiate a deal, but unless sisu are serious about buying for a fair price, and the council and higgs selling, then it would be pointless.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Back in the day, it wasn't SISU who rejected meditation and a short term run-off deal out of hand...
Maybe they would now, maybe not. To decide beforehand the conclusion however, guarantees the call to resolution doesn't even happen.
I am afraid it will be all-out-war for quite some time no matter the result of the JR.
The only thing I see as a potential deadline is in the latest accounts where all loans are set to expire per December. If there's no sign of a resolution by then something drastic will happen.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I fear I agree with you, it won't be the 'resolution' many hope it will be... in my opinion.
All the more reason to call for a ceasefire then, and commence negotiations on the peace treaty.
He couldn't, but the parties could decide heads of terms and then the arbitrator steps in whenever the parties disagree.
L
limoncello
Guest
There is absolutely no sensible reason whatsoever not to push for an independent mediator and/or arbitrator, unless you are worried that the position you have taken could be challenged and you may end up looking a bit of a know-it-all twat. I am happy to take that risk.
"30: Are ACL willing to be bound by an agreement brokered by independent mediators or arbitrator?
ACL: No. We have put our best and final offer on the table after months of negotiation with both SISU and CCFC. It was a reasonable and generous offer, as recognised by all 3 CCFC directors in attendance on 29 January 2013, as they verbally accepted it and shook hands in confirmation. We are not prepared to make further concessions, nor do we believe that any mediator could reasonably expect that we would. The ball is in CCFC’s court. Negotiations are now at an end, and the Board of CCFC have been duly notified.
CCFC: Yes. Any Arbitrator(s) would need to look at matters such as the lawfulness of the original licence, the financial viability of ACL, monies paid to ACL for utilities/other services and the fact there appears to be no contract for these and the monies paid by CCFC to ACL during the period of the dispute."
"30: Are ACL willing to be bound by an agreement brokered by independent mediators or arbitrator?
ACL: No. We have put our best and final offer on the table after months of negotiation with both SISU and CCFC. It was a reasonable and generous offer, as recognised by all 3 CCFC directors in attendance on 29 January 2013, as they verbally accepted it and shook hands in confirmation. We are not prepared to make further concessions, nor do we believe that any mediator could reasonably expect that we would. The ball is in CCFC’s court. Negotiations are now at an end, and the Board of CCFC have been duly notified.
CCFC: Yes. Any Arbitrator(s) would need to look at matters such as the lawfulness of the original licence, the financial viability of ACL, monies paid to ACL for utilities/other services and the fact there appears to be no contract for these and the monies paid by CCFC to ACL during the period of the dispute."
Astute
Well-Known Member
Reduced to even twisting values now?
And where did I say I don't support an independent valuation or arbitration? I did raise points on why one won't happen though.
I am also as interested in our clubs long term future as well as our club coming home. To me it isn't bring our club home and hope for the best. We seem to have a few on here that don't care about any consequences as long as our club comes home.
And how can you say about not having our club and stadium united when you know it won't be owned by our club? We need this explained more.
What I would be the happiest with would be if SISU and CCC came to an agreement that the arena was always tied to our club, and if there were ever bad debts to cover like admin or even liquidation the arena would be converted back to CCC but would belong to CCFC otherwise.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Almost like some are afraid of SISU saying yes and ACL/CCC saying no...
If SISU are the devil incarnate there's little reason to oppose such a call, is there, as it'll be more bad news for SISU as there spouting off in public about how they want to do a deal but the nasty evil council won't let them... will prove to be a sham.
Astute
Well-Known Member
No they couldn't. But if you are like me and mention what could go wrong you have a few jump on your back and want to know why you don't want it :thinking about:
Nick
Administrator
Exactly, if it turns out it's worth £20 million and SISU are offering £1m, we can pressure SISU then can't we?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If all it took was me being a know-it-all twat to get this resolved, then it'd have been sorted long ago
I'm quite happy to ramp up the know-all twatness however, if it means peace in our time!
Nick
Administrator
Which values have been twisted?
Nick
Administrator
Hasn't their best and final offer changed a few times? Why not offer their best and final in the first place, being best and final and all?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Pressure SISU? :claping hands::laugh:
I wasn't raking up the past or suggesting sisu were the reason there was no independent mediation in the past. I was saying 18 months ago there was no good reason not to push for independent mediation, however it's now been proved without doubt sisu shouldn't continue to be owners of our club, so there is no point in pushing for independent mediation any longer. If they do stay as owners I wish them the best at doing well with the club but I won't be part of it.
Nick
Administrator
Or if it turns out it is worth nothing and ACL are taking the piss, the shoe is on the other foot and 75% of members on here suddenly leave
Astute
Well-Known Member
And didn't SISU want a reduced rent......sorry the pie money.....sorry freehold.........sorry unencumbered freehold.
Nick
Administrator
L
limoncello
Guest
We really should push for it.
Sisu say no, ACL say yes - confirms what we know, Sisu are scum.
Sisu say no, ACL say no - both as bad as each other, idiots.
Sisu say yes, ACL say no - hmm.
Sisu say yes, ACL say yes - bingo. Things could possibly move on.
Sisu say no, ACL say yes - confirms what we know, Sisu are scum.
Sisu say no, ACL say no - both as bad as each other, idiots.
Sisu say yes, ACL say no - hmm.
Sisu say yes, ACL say yes - bingo. Things could possibly move on.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Or if it turns out it is worth nothing and ACL are taking the piss, the shoe is on the other foot and 75% of members on here suddenly leave
So what sort of deal are you talking about? Purchasing ACL? Valueless? Joy wants much more anyway. Or are you saying the arena might be valueless whatever?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I think we can solve this thread by saying, let's wait until the JR has flew by, by that time more facts are in the open for all parties and fair negotiations can take place, while establishing a realistic value for purchase.
I would just say that if CCC value the 50% at £0 why don't the Club just purchase the Councils share if they know it's not worth anything??
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I would just say that if CCC value the 50% at £0 why don't the Club just purchase the Councils share if they know it's not worth anything??
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
Exactly what SISU need to do well said mate.