D
Deleted member 5849
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More assertions.
Yet not putting weight behind a call to resolution.
How does that help us move forward?
ACL don't want to sell to SISU. Who could blame them after their efforts so far?
SISU don't want to pay anywhere near it's value. We also need to remember that the arena is much more than the football bowl. By the sound of it Joy also wants the surrounding land.
More assertions.
Yet not putting weight behind a call to resolution.
How does that help us move forward?
You don't want a resolution then?
More assertions?
Shall I try again. ACL is CCC and Higgs. Higgs have said in public that they have no trust left in SISU and can't see there being a deal now. CCC have said that the Ricoh isn't for sale to Joy. Or was Joy bullshitting?
SISU moved us to Northampton to try and lower the value of the arena. SISU tried to get the Higgs share for 2m. They refused rent free and 150k to try and send ACL to the wall.
Do I have to explain at all how the arena is much more than just a football stadium?
And do I have to explain how the process is to rebuild trust?
Do I also have to explain how there are many possible resolutions?
Or, we can carry on with hate, if we're comfortable in negativity.
For somebody who was reserving judgement, you seem very swift to judge...
The first step is getting them both to agree to arbitration...after that there is a long road to be travelled. Even then arbitration would not necessarily be binding.
It could be binding...
One thing's for sure, they certainly won't agree if we remain in a polarised hell of negativity and destructiveness, where we fill our days with vindictiveness rather than a desire to try and move things forward, and dismiss attempts to resolve because they'll never happen.
Many things far far more serious than a financial dispute have been resolved, yet we seem determined to give in, so we can wallow in our self-pity.
ACL don't want to sell to SISU. Who could blame them after their efforts so far?
SISU don't want to pay anywhere near it's value. We also need to remember that the arena is much more than the football bowl. By the sound of it Joy also wants the surrounding land.
More assertions.
Yet not putting weight behind a call to resolution.
How does that help us move forward?
More assertions?
Shall I try again. ACL is CCC and Higgs. Higgs have said in public that they have no trust left in SISU and can't see there being a deal now. CCC have said that the Ricoh isn't for sale to Joy. Or was Joy bullshitting?
SISU moved us to Northampton to try and lower the value of the arena. SISU tried to get the Higgs share for 2m. They refused rent free and 150k to try and send ACL to the wall.
Do I have to explain at all how the arena is much more than just a football stadium?
And do I have to explain how the process is to rebuild trust?
Do I also have to explain how there are many possible resolutions?
Or, we can carry on with hate, if we're comfortable in negativity.
For somebody who was reserving judgement, you seem very swift to judge...
Yes, where do you get that sisu don't want to pay 'anywhere near it's value'?
What is the value? Nill according to CCC, £13m according to Higgs. Who is right?
Why can't you support an independent valuation?
Why can't you support an independent arbitration?
Is your number 1 priority not to bring the club home?
Is you priority number 2 not to have the club and stadium united?
Or is your only priority to get sisu out and f*ck the rest - even the club?
Yes, where do you get that sisu don't want to pay 'anywhere near it's value'?
What is the value? Nill according to CCC, £13m according to Higgs. Who is right?
Why can't you support an independent valuation?
Why can't you support an independent arbitration?
Is your number 1 priority not to bring the club home?
Is you priority number 2 not to have the club and stadium united?
Or is your only priority to get sisu out and f*ck the rest - even the club?
So you think SISU will agree to something when they can't decide which direction everything takes? T
The resolution doesn't even necessarily have to be that ACL is sold to SISU/the club, if it is found that this is not the 'fairest' solution.
The only reasons, to be honest, that I could see not to do it would be time and cost.
Time? Well... not starting a process and moving towards all-out war has lead to a swift resolution, hasn't it.
Cost? Not ideal, to be debated. Then again, if all parties seem determined to sue one another, it might be better if they used those pots of money constructively. Perhaps there would be a way to factor the cost into any final deal?
I am afraid it will be all-out-war for quite some time no matter the result of the JR.
How could a mediator force either Sisu to buy or the council to sell?
Someone could negotiate a deal, but unless sisu are serious about buying for a fair price, and the council and higgs selling, then it would be pointless.
Yes, where do you get that sisu don't want to pay 'anywhere near it's value'?
What is the value? Nill according to CCC, £13m according to Higgs. Who is right?
Why can't you support an independent valuation?
Why can't you support an independent arbitration?
Is your number 1 priority not to bring the club home?
Is you priority number 2 not to have the club and stadium united?
Or is your only priority to get sisu out and f*ck the rest - even the club?
Why would people not want it to be done via a third party who wants to do it fair to get us back to the Ricoh for a fair price?
How could a mediator force either Sisu to buy or the council to sell?
Someone could negotiate a deal, but unless sisu are serious about buying for a fair price, and the council and higgs selling, then it would be pointless.
Almost like some are afraid of SISU saying yes and ACL/CCC saying no...
If SISU are the devil incarnate there's little reason to oppose such a call, is there, as it'll be more bad news for SISU as there spouting off in public about how they want to do a deal but the nasty evil council won't let them... will prove to be a sham.
There is absolutely no sensible reason whatsoever not to push for an independent mediator and/or arbitrator, unless you are worried that the position you have taken could be challenged and you may end up looking a bit of a know-it-all twat. I am happy to take that risk.
Reduced to even twisting values now?
And where did I say I don't support an independent valuation or arbitration? I did raise points on why one won't happen though.
I am also as interested in our clubs long term future as well as our club coming home. To me it isn't bring our club home and hope for the best. We seem to have a few on here that don't care about any consequences as long as our club comes home.
And how can you say about not having our club and stadium united when you know it won't be owned by our club? We need this explained more.
What I would be the happiest with would be if SISU and CCC came to an agreement that the arena was always tied to our club, and if there were ever bad debts to cover like admin or even liquidation the arena would be converted back to CCC but would belong to CCFC otherwise.
There is absolutely no sensible reason whatsoever not to push for an independent mediator and/or arbitrator, unless you are worried that the position you have taken could be challenged and you may end up looking a bit of a know-it-all twat. I am happy to take that risk.
"30: Are ACL willing to be bound by an agreement brokered by independent mediators or arbitrator?
ACL: No. We have put our best and final offer on the table after months of negotiation with both SISU and CCFC. It was a reasonable and generous offer, as recognised by all 3 CCFC directors in attendance on 29 January 2013, as they verbally accepted it and shook hands in confirmation. We are not prepared to make further concessions, nor do we believe that any mediator could reasonably expect that we would. The ball is in CCFC’s court. Negotiations are now at an end, and the Board of CCFC have been duly notified.
CCFC: Yes. Any Arbitrator(s) would need to look at matters such as the lawfulness of the original licence, the financial viability of ACL, monies paid to ACL for utilities/other services and the fact there appears to be no contract for these and the monies paid by CCFC to ACL during the period of the dispute."
Exactly, if it turns out it's worth £20 million and SISU are offering £1m, we can pressure SISU then can't we?
Thing is, it wasn't the club/SISU who refused to discuss mediation or a three year run-off clause in a rental deal when this all blew up. What's done is done, however, and we are where we are and all that jizz.
We're also not going to get anywhere by raking up the past. That includes SISU raking up the great ills done to them - the only way we move forward is if we ask the question 'how can this be resolved?'
What I want to know is what reasons exist that make the current situation better than attempting resolution?
Or if it turns out it is worth nothing and ACL are taking the piss, the shoe is on the other foot and 75% of members on here suddenly leavePressure SISU? :claping hands::laugh:
Hasn't their best and final offer changed a few times? Why not offer their best and final in the first place, being best and final and all?
And didn't SISU want a reduced rent......sorry the pie money.....sorry freehold.........sorry unencumbered freehold.
Or if it turns out it is worth nothing and ACL are taking the piss, the shoe is on the other foot and 75% of members on here suddenly leave
Hasn't their best and final offer changed a few times? Why not offer their best and final in the first place, being best and final and all?
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