@martcov... You must have a cupboard somewhere where you squeeze somebody in.... As many people have been saying, anywhere is better than Syria
The arrivals in Kiel are living in a Container village and are better off there than in my flimsy Ikea wardrobe.
The arrivals in Kiel are living in a Container village and are better off there than in my flimsy Ikea wardrobe.
So your just talking the talk, you would prefer people to live I a container village instead of your comfortable Ikea flat? ..
...opening the flood gates won't make the problem go away either.
I would be quite happy offering temporary refugee status on the guarantee that they all go back when things improve. However we all know this will never happen- they will be here for good.
I know of no instance where the middle east or north Africa has offered refuge to people from Europe- not one. The last time was 1948 when Jews fought tooth and nail to found the state of Israel- and have been at war ever since in a fight for survival. However cases of forced conversion to Islam are very widespread and there was also European slavery as practiced by the Barbaray pirates.
Quote from the Economist:
"The churches better pray that the new immigrants show as much love and compassion for them when a few years down they are settled and begin to flex their political muscle. Me suspects they'll give more credit to Allah rather than the vicars of Christ for their new condition, and will exercise the loyalties accordingly. For all their desire to welcome immigrants to Europe, if they're not careful they will be come immigrants themselves in no long long order"
Forget your labels of "left" and "right". They are meaningless. Open your eyes to what actually is.
PUSB.
What actually is, is that people are here on our doorstep and they are desperate. Whether other people offer refuge or not, these people have sold everything and risked their lives to get here and they cannot go back - there are no people smugglers going in the other direction and they have no money to pay anyone anyway. Yes, Islam is a shit religion, but so are all religions because they are based on pure Fantasy - and guess what.... there is always someone at the top with enormous Wealth and power. Plus none of the Gods is capable of printing money and relieving poverty. In fact the more poverty, the better. You can keep the wealth and power for yourself and let the poor believe they will get their share in paradise. Badness is not unique to Islam and it's Extremist followers. Personally, I think treating people well will work out better in the end. Why drop to the level of religious fanatics? The floodgates are not set on permanently open and the sooner countries like Syria are free from war the better.
I think the issue is that every refugee needs to be vetted to see how needy they are. I don't doubt there are thousands upon thousands who do need help and they should get help. There will also be people taking the piss who could potentially ruin it for others / take the aid for somebody who does need it.
What is happening now though is that there are too many desperate people to vet - Germany has 140,000 claims to process. Yes, the scum will take advantage of this, but it is a bit like at an overcrowded stadium with thousands pushing to get in. At a derby game here ( Kiel ) in 2004 against St Pauli Hamburg, everyone was being searched and thousands were still outside at kick off. The crush was so bad that they opened the gates and everyone piled in with or without tickets - I made it as far as the bar and all I saw from the game was when the ball was high in the air - had a good time though. It is like that here - refugees were arriving in Germany with kids with no shoes, hardly enough clothes stinking and exhausted. The choice was let them in without screening all of them or let them rot....Pleased Merkel let them in, but the problem just won't go away. The claims still have to be processed and those from "safe" countries will be sent home. Germans know about trekking across Europe - older people remember the refugees from the east. Even then there was resentment as some people were forced to have them in their homes. But they took them in. Memories are coming back and that is probably why Germans are mucking in to help them. Living on an island with no land borders probably gives you a different perspective, but I was pleased to see them get a standing ovation before the Kiel game on Saturday. They have risked everything to get away from scumbags and I'm for showing them humanity - even if some scumbags come with them ( cannot avoid that ).
Amongst many in Germany, I imagine Merkel is as popular as a rattle snake in a lucky dip !
She is very popular because of the decision to let them in - except in some parts of East Germany where the neo Nazis are stronger. The CSU, her coalition partners from Bavaria ( catholic and conservative - except in Munich ), are fuming because she made the decision without consulting them. Up here, the people agree - most of them - with the decision and there are lots of people wanting to help. Now people want to know where we go from here. Most know we cannot take everybody on the move. Some of the people on here would be on the side of the Nazis judging by their staements. I find that worrying.
Are they really Nazi's because they are concerned about too much immigration ? I find it worrying also that people are slammed for having a contrary opinion to the far left. I'm glad we have a Conservative government right now who will enable the UK to do it's bit { For genuine refugees } and by sensibly using money from the foreign aid budget to help the councils fund it. When folk jump on the bandwagon of slagging off ordinary Brits over this mess, they ought to remember that we are a prime destination for migration from many countries across the globe and we are currently taking in a number similar to the size of the City of Coventry every year. I might add that most of these settle in England too rather than spreading out into Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Are they really Nazi's because they are concerned about too much immigration ? I find it worrying also that people are slammed for having a contrary opinion to the far left.
And he demonstrates the lack of sympathy and compassion associated with Conservatism and the right.I find it worrying that it's classed as left wing to want to help others.
Shouldn't that be human nature, not a political ideology?
And he demonstrates the lack of sympathy and compassion associated with Conservatism and the right.
I find it worrying that it's classed as left wing to want to help others.
Shouldn't that be human nature, not a political ideology?
tbf, if we were talking politics, then a right wing free market economy would embrace economic migrants as improving efficiency in a labour market.
So it's fair to say an aversion to economic migrants is not a right wing position in that sense.
However...
We're not talking economic migrants here anyway. Personally I'm not sure that politics should piggy-back on humanity. Not convinced it's good to generalise full-stop, be it right wing, left wing... or migrants as a whole.
I find it worrying that it's classed as left wing to want to help others.
Shouldn't that be human nature, not a political ideology?
It is. Economically no doubt I'd be given a right wing label but I have no issue with the offer of assistance.
It seems Cameron's offer is woefully inadequate though from today's announcement.
Funnily enough, does that mean that the "far left" includes Merkel and the Pope who are also of a contrary opinion to the previous poster - Ashdown? Ashdown is glad that we have a conservative government in Britain ....... our coalition in Germany is led by the conservatives and many Germans are glad that the CDU ( conservatives ) let the refugees come and are even applauding the refugees as they arrive. Me too. The pope has instructed his church to take in refugees and some are in the Vatican. It is strange that German conservatives, right wing catholics, and myself, a liberal atheist, are standing with the left, whilst UK conservatives like Ashdown find themselves standing with the German Nazis and the extreme right UKIP, against helping refugees.
Where have I or the UK Conservatives said that help shouldn't be given to genuine refugees ? All I've said is that we are taking record amounts of migrants as it is from all over the world. This clamour to take Syrians seems to be ignoring the plight of South Sudanese, Burmese, Kenyans, Nigerians, Palestinians, Libyans and many more who live in fear of tyranny and terrorism
What is the offer?
Glad you agree we should open the door to more from Palestine etc.
How incredibly naive. Really, what would be the point?
What would be the point of assisting victims of oppression, brutality and torture indeed...
Because they are not white and Ayrian race perhaps?
tbf, I think that's a harsh low blow in general.
I'll quite happily, for example, say I got it wrong about Ashdown, and be pleased to see that, as he rightfully points out, other nations have people deserving of our help. Furthermore, when he says his arguments are economic, he shows himself more pro migration as migration overall is of vast benefit to this country economically.
Therefore extending it, it would be naive not to encourage migration from economic migrants, as they lift our standard of living higher. As for refugees then, well... the numbers are remarkably small in the grand scheme of things, and I'm sure the overall net benefit of migration shows we can accept our charitable acts.
My concern is that as well as doing what we can to deal with the current issue we also deal with the root cause. It isn't really a sustainable future plan to have vast areas of the world lawless with the decent law abiding folk of these nations travelling thousands of miles to escape their own homes.
That's a perfectly fair point.
My concern is that as well as doing what we can to deal with the current issue we also deal with the root cause. It isn't really a sustainable future plan to have vast areas of the world lawless with the decent law abiding folk of these nations travelling thousands of miles to escape their own homes.
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