Religious intolerance (11 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

It sounds as though you are cherry picking here.

Cherry picking what? Genesis is not a historical account it's a myth to show a truth i.e. God made the world

 

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[Sick Boy]

Cherry picking what? Genesis is not a historical account it's a myth to show a truth i.e. God made the world

If that is a myth then the whole Bible can be discounted as nothing other than a myth.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If that is a myth then the whole Bible can be discounted as nothing other than a myth.

Course not why? Only if you think the bible is written like an encyclopaedia. It's not

 

[Sick Boy]

Course not why? Only if you think the bible is written like an encyclopaedia. It's not

So bits of it are myths and other bits are real?

 

[Astute]

That's a brilliant proposition isn't it?

Very intelligent people and their thoughts.

Then you have god and hearsay.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Very intelligent people and their thoughts.

Then you have god and hearsay.

They are really not mutually exclusive. They may be in your experience but they don't have to be. Look up John Polkinghorne

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So bits of it are myths and other bits are real?

Yep absolutely. How else could you make sense of many books written thousands of years ago to different people?

 

[Astute]

Yep absolutely. How else could you make sense of many books written thousands of years ago to different people?

Are you saying that the bible makes no sense?

 

[Sick Boy]

Yep absolutely. How else could you make sense of many books written thousands of years ago to different people?

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Astute]

They are really not mutually exclusive. They may be in your experience but they don't have to be. Look up John Polkinghorne

I have not said that they are.

Don't you find it strange that so many highly intelligent and highly regarded people have come to the same conclusion?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Are you saying that the bible makes no sense?

I dont think so but it's not as simple as trying to just read it and pick holes in its narrative. It's written about gods people over thousands of years
Illuminating book for me by Brian mclaren - a new kind of Christianity

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I have not said that they are.

Don't you find it strange that so many highly intelligent and highly regarded people have come to the same conclusion?

You keep making that comment but there are loads of highly intelligent people who have faith
Some interesting information here astute

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/phys...religion-science-scientists.amp?client=safari

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is getting ridiculous.

Why? Because it's not black and white? You want to reject god and the bible based on a certain standpoint and I'm suggesting it's more complex than that?
The bible is written across thousands of years, in languages that are different, some of the languages are no longer spoken. It is a whole series of books written with different literary practice and has only been available to humans at large since the advent of the printing press in the 16th century.
You cannot approach the bible as one book or dismiss it on contradictions alone I don't think. There is a deep collective wisdom to be unearthed in its study

 

[martcov]

I follow a church set up by Jesus martcov

Oh good. My church has the usual god problem. Maybe you can help? Whatever god you choose, they all have one thing in common. They can do loads of different things e.g. Create billions of stars, but the one common denominator is that none of these gods can create enough money. As with all churches, my church needs money. Sorry not able to create any, but you can gladly transfer all your life savings to my church. In return you will go to heaven and receive blessings for the rest of eternity. Good deal isn't it?

 

[martcov]

What do you want? Black and white answers? Life is rarely like that.

Wriggle wriggle. Have you got evidence that Jesus existed and that he was the son of god? Hard to explain that he was the son of himself being the father, the son and the Holy Ghost at the same time. But I assume you must have some evidence to be so convinced of the story. The 500 witnesses don't count as they have not recorded what they saw or given us their names as a sort of cross reference.

 

[Astute]

You keep making that comment but there are loads of highly intelligent people who have faith
Some interesting information here astute

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/phys...religion-science-scientists.amp?client=safari

So in highly religious countries only half of scientists are athiest. But just about everywhere else most scientists are athiest. Not really a revelation is it.

 

[Captain Dart]

Sorry I think that what was written in the gospels was a follow up to the word of mouth stories that was typically how history was told in that world. There is strong literary evidence for the information included in the gospels and acts of the apostles

False stories permeate the bible, do you believe a bloke was swallowed by a whale and survived , a boat saved all living species from a flood, someone turned water in to wine or fed a multitude with 5 loaves & 2 fishes. That book has little credibility when it comes to claims of miracles.

 

[Captain Dart]

So in highly religious countries only half of scientists are athiest. But just about everywhere else most scientists are athiest. Not really a revelation is it.

Its more like self preservation where might be dangerous to speak your mind.

 

[Astute]

False stories permeate the bible, do you believe a bloke was swallowed by a whale and survived , a boat saved all living species from a flood, someone turned water in to wine or fed a multitude with 5 loaves & 2 fishes. That book has little credibility when it comes to claims of miracles.

It says a lot to me that those who are considered to be the most intelligent prefer to think that we are part of an experiment or a more advanced video game than believing in God and the bible.

 

[martcov]

Sorry I think that what was written in the gospels was a follow up to the word of mouth stories that was typically how history was told in that world. There is strong literary evidence for the information included in the gospels and acts of the apostles

Is there? What about the census at Christ's birth? There wasn't one. The duty to go to your home town for census purposes. There wasn't one. Pontius Pilat wasn't governor at the time of Christ's death, I would put the evidence on a par with that for Robin Hood.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So in highly religious countries only half of scientists are athiest. But just about everywhere else most scientists are athiest. Not really a revelation is it.

More nuanced than you were suggesting. Intelligent people are atheist, thick people are not.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is there? What about the census at Christ's birth? There wasn't one. The duty to go to your home town for census purposes. There wasn't one. Pontius Pilat wasn't governor at the time of Christ's death, I would put the evidence on a par with that for Robin Hood.

Well you'd be wrong. Historical evidence for historical books is based on two variables. The length of time between the actual events and the first copy/ies and the number of copies that there are. The bible trumps other history significantly. Doesn't prove the events but that's how we judge accuracy

The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? |

You can argue with how historical experts deem accuracy you can't argue the New Testament comes out well when judged against these tests

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

More nuanced than you were suggesting. Intelligent people are atheist, thick people are not.

False stories permeate the bible, do you believe a bloke was swallowed by a whale and survived , a boat saved all living species from a flood, someone turned water in to wine or fed a multitude with 5 loaves & 2 fishes. That book has little credibility when it comes to claims of miracles.

Which book captain? The bible is a compendium of books. There are 66 books in total. 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New.
One of my closest friends visibly saw her leg grow when prayed for. Makes no sense but that's her reality

 

[Otis]

Which book captain? The bible is a compendium of books. There are 66 books in total. 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New.
One of my closest friends visibly saw her leg grow when prayed for. Makes no sense but that's her reality

Yeah, but then I know people who have had cancer, not been religious and the cancer has vanished after positive thinking.

 

[Astute]

More nuanced than you were suggesting. Intelligent people are atheist, thick people are not.

So where did I say that?

I didn't mention above average intelligence. Just like I didn't mention average or below average intelligence. And you slip in the word 'thick'

And the post you have quoted only mentions scientists. Do you consider everyone else to be thick?

Maybe we could add your post to the fables in the bible

 

[Astute]

Yeah, but then I know people who have had cancer, not been religious and the cancer has vanished after positive thinking.

My sister being one last year.

 

[Astute]

Well you'd be wrong. Historical evidence for historical books is based on two variables. The length of time between the actual events and the first copy/ies and the number of copies that there are. The bible trumps other history significantly. Doesn't prove the events but that's how we judge accuracy

The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? |

You can argue with how historical experts deem accuracy you can't argue the New Testament comes out well when judged against these tests

The new testament is where they have got rid of parts where people can see the sections can't be true. Give it a couple more hundreds of years of changes and it shouldn't be looking too bad.

 

[Otis]

The new testament is where they have got rid of parts where people can see the sections can't be true. Give it a couple more hundreds of years of changes and it shouldn't be looking too bad.

As I said, I went out with an Evangelist. They pretty much ignored the rest of the Bible and almost entirely concentrated on the four gospels only.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah, but then I know people who have had cancer, not been religious and the cancer has vanished after positive thinking.

Me too I'm saying what my friend's story was. I'm not trying to convert you just express opinions and illuminates areas people may not have considered in different ways

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So where did I say that?

I didn't mention above average intelligence. Just like I didn't mention average or below average intelligence. And you slip in the word 'thick'

And the post you have quoted only mentions scientists. Do you consider everyone else to be thick?

Maybe we could add your post to the fables in the bible

I was trying to help with the study presuming scientists would fall in your definition of 'highly intelligent people'. I think that's the term you used. I think intelligence is nuanced so I was reacting to your implication that clever people don't have faith and non clever people do. Sorry to use a pejorative term like 'thick'

This was your comment

I have not said that they are.

Don't you find it strange that so many highly intelligent and highly regarded people have come to the same conclusion?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

As I said, I went out with an Evangelist. They pretty much ignored the rest of the Bible and almost entirely concentrated on the four gospels only.

I think the common understanding would be the Old Testament is written to point to the messiah Jesus and therefore the New Testament is about his life and the age to come so that is why really

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If our inner journey does not match and lead to an outer journey, we have no true freedom

 

[martcov]

I was trying to help with the study presuming scientists would fall in your definition of 'highly intelligent people'. I think that's the term you used. I think intelligence is nuanced so I was reacting to your implication that clever people don't have faith and non clever people do. Sorry to use a pejorative term like 'thick'

This was your comment

I have not said that they are.

Don't you find it strange that so many highly intelligent and highly regarded people have come to the same conclusion?

The conclusion that evolution is true? So many of the uneducated people of the world are religious and don't think the theory of evolution is provable fact. Education has a lot to do with religion or lack of it - the USA being a possible exception with relatively educated people being religious. Many accept it as "spiritually true" and not literally true to get around being associated with atheists. Atheists being seen as something similar to the devil in some parts of the USA.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The conclusion that evolution is true? So many of the uneducated people of the world are religious and don't think the theory of evolution is provable fact. Education has a lot to do with religion or lack of it - the USA being a possible exception with relatively educated people being religious. Many accept it as "spiritually true" and not literally true to get around being associated with atheists. Atheists being seen as something similar to the devil in some parts of the USA.

No disagreement with the last sentence. I think that's not my experience in my church community many professors in many areas who have faith and can balance the anomalies whilst still questioning

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

our task is to create foretastes of the kingdom of god on this planet...living glimpses of what life is meant to be. including art, music, shared laughter, picnics, politics, moral outrage, special privileges for children only, wonder and humour and endless love.

Hirsch