Religious intolerance (23 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

That's fine absoluteky. I think one of the biggest problems is Christian's focusing so much on Jesus death that they don't live the life that he calls us to live.

As in they live "good" to make sure they get into heaven?

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

A difficult question? Bloody hell. It's no different to someone being born with a particular colour of skin or being right or left handed.

It's perfectly natural and has been going on before religion was invented by mankind. It was also perfectly acceptable and common in ancient Greece and Rome.

Yet more innocent human beings who have been persecuted and suffered due to religion.

I agree that loving and having sex with someone of the same sex is absolutely natural but society doesn't agree historically or across the world. The church is in a pickle on it too. Pretty convinced it will be similar to slavery hundreds of years ago in generations to come in the church as it already is in western society at large

I would ask though who should decide what's natural and ok rather than criminal and not ok? straight majority? Am I able to do whatever comes naturally to me? Get angry hit someone? Fancy sex grab the person closest to me? Of course not as these things are criminal and seen as not ok but who decides?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

As in they live "good" to make sure they get into heaven?

No we should live good lives cause it shows gods character to all and it's the right thing to do for followers of Jesus to do as he did.

The certainty is after 45 years life makes I sense without God. I know others would say completely the opposite and I respect that. Read some of Mandela and Desmond Tutu books that sort of certainty there's no question in their minds even after what Mandela went through in prison etc

 

[ccfc92]

No we should live good lives cause if shows gods character to all and it's the right thing to do for followers of Jesus to do as he did.

The certainty is after 45 years life makes I sense without God. I know others would say completely the opposite and I respect that. Read some of Mandela and Desmond Tutu books that sort of certainty there's no question in their minds even after what Mandela went through in prison etc

Yes, but you said people focus on his death, so surely some people live "good lives" despite not actually having a good soul? For example, I could give to the church, help the homeless, feed the starving etc whilst having evil thoughts in my head, so surely it counteracts as my soul isn't pure?

What prompted you to be so certain? A vision? An epiphany? Genuine question

 

[skybluedan]

Do you think it was a scaremongering tactic when civilisation realised anarchy existed , and was thought up by whoever ???

Because just thinking even though I don't know anything about God apart from he's santas dad, and jesus of course and don't believe in anything like that , I do try to live my life good and proper I suppose

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes, but you said people focus on his death, so surely some people live "good lives" despite not actually having a good soul? For example, I could give to the church, help the homeless, feed the starving etc whilst having evil thoughts in my head, so surely it counteracts as my soul isn't pure?

What prompted you to be so certain? A vision? An epiphany? Genuine question

I absolutely believe many people live good lives without faith and unfortunately people of faith make many if not more mistakes than those without.
In Christianity the belief is that we have freedom through faith in Jesus and by his death he makes us pure before God. you can see the danger in announcing forgiveness and freedom before someone accepts their wrong.

The certainty Comes from Experiences over my life and I feel that god as I talk about him has pulled me back despite myself on numerous occasions. It's not a great answer I'm sorry. Tutu framed it for me in that God just is.
Main experiences have been the times I have been so aware of a presence outside of myself during a service and a deep sense of peace about my life.
I'd suggest try it out for yourself for 6 months. Attend a church community with an open heart and open mind and see what happens.

 

[martcov]

I agree that loving and having sex with someone of the same sex is absolutely natural but society doesn't agree historically or across the world. The church is in a pickle on it too. Pretty convinced it will be similar to slavery hundreds of years ago in generations to come in the church as it already is in western society at large

I would ask though who should decide what's natural and ok rather than criminal and not ok? straight majority? Am I able to do whatever comes naturally to me? Get angry hit someone? Fancy sex grab the person closest to me? Of course not as these things are criminal and seen as not ok but who decides?

Hitting people and raping people is doing harm to others. No society accepts that long term. Unless it is only minorities that are on the receiving end ( see ISIS occupied areas ). Gays having consensual sex is harming no-one. Without religion, I think most people wouldn't bother too much. Two guys kissing in the street still seems odd to me though, but I see that as being a result of being brought up in a society that didn't openly accept homosexuality. It may be different if had been born at a later date.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do you think it was a scaremongering tactic when civilisation realised anarchy existed , and was thought up by whoever ???

Because just thinking even though I don't know anything about God apart from he's santas dad, and jesus of course and don't believe in anything like that , I do try to live my life good and proper I suppose

It's an interesting philosophy that might ring true in our western culture where we have freedom to believe and act how we wish, short of criminality of course.

But how does that work when the faith community are the ones not in power bringing about justice at the expense of their lives

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hitting people and raping people is doing harm to others. No society accepts that long term. Unless it is only minorities that are on the receiving end ( see ISIS occupied areas ). Gays having consensual sex is harming no-one. Without religion, I think most people wouldn't bother too much. Two guys kissing in the street still seems odd to me though, but I see that as being a result of being brought up in a society that didn't openly accept homosexuality. It may be different if had been born at a later date.

The argument I've had thrown at me is that of where does one draw the line if the bible is not the truth. I think they have a point cause someone could say that they are naturally attracted to animals or young people and why shouldn't they have rights to act out their natural urges. It's why I ask who decides. I absolutely agree with you about two guys and admire your honesty about it seeming odd to you. I also agree future generations will wonder what the hell we had a problem with

 

[skybluedan]

I

It's an interesting philosophy that might ring true in our western culture where we have freedom to believe and act how we wish, short of criminality of course.

But how does that work when the faith community are the ones not in power bringing about justice at the expense of their lives

Yeah because it was my Nan that made me good not God like I don't think , but actually thinking about it maybe

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I


Yeah because it was my Nan that made me good not God like I don't think , but actually thinking about it maybe

Was your nan a lady of faith??

 

[martcov]

No we should live good lives cause it shows gods character to all and it's the right thing to do for followers of Jesus to do as he did.

The certainty is after 45 years life makes I sense without God. I know others would say completely the opposite and I respect that. Read some of Mandela and Desmond Tutu books that sort of certainty there's no question in their minds even after what Mandela went through in prison etc

You only know about 10% of Jesus' life at most. Telling people to leave their families and to follow him - as he did - is not good. Look at it from the family's point of view.

I lead a good life because I get on better. I have good relations with my fellow humans and benefit from that. Most people do live relatively good lives for the same reason.

People who have never heard of your God or Jesus also live good lives. You don't need Jesus to live a good life, and if he is the only reason you are good, then you are a prick. Without your belief your true self would come out. I am good without an excuse to be good.

 

[skybluedan]

Was your nan a lady of faith??

Nah mate, but taught me what is right and what is wrong

 

[ccfc92]

I absolutely believe many people live good lives without faith and unfortunately people of faith make many if not more mistakes than those without.
In Christianity the belief is that we have freedom through faith in Jesus and by his death he makes us pure before God. you can see the danger in announcing forgiveness and freedom before someone accepts their wrong.

The certainty Comes from Experiences over my life and I feel that god as I talk about him has pulled me back despite myself on numerous occasions. It's not a great answer I'm sorry. Tutu framed it for me in that God just is.
Main experiences have been the times I have been so aware of a presence outside of myself during a service and a deep sense of peace about my life.
I'd suggest try it out for yourself for 6 months. Attend a church community with an open heart and open mind and see what happens.

I do appreciate that some people just feel like there is a god.

Over the last year, I've been to America three times, particularly Vegas twice. In those two visits, I've seen the Grand Canyon, Bryce and Zion national parks, Death Valley, and numerous other places and wildlife. I have wondered who or what made the world as it is naturally, and whether there was "a design". It does provoke thoughts of a greater being, but the rational side of me points towards science and how physics work etc.

I do hope you don't take this the wrong way, , but it does illustrate the things in the world, like the biological design of human's circulatory for example, and makes you wonder and how easy it is the dismiss "god's work".

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You only know about 10% of Jesus' life at most. Telling people to leave their families and to follow him - as he did - is not good. Look at it from the family's point of view.

I lead a good life because I get on better. I have good relations with my fellow humans and benefit from that. Most people do live relatively good lives for the same reason.

People who have never heard of your God or Jesus also live good lives. You don't need Jesus to live a good life, and if he is the only reason you are good, then you are a prick. Without your belief your true self would come out. I am good without an excuse to be good.

Happy to be a prick if that helps you. I think it's bloody hard to not be selfish, greedy, bitter, angry etc etc and of course if we don't exert personal responsibility for our actions then we are pricks with or without faith. I don't do the good things I do cause I'm pleasing god or scared of him I do it because of gratitude for life itself.

 

[ccfc92]

Just a quick one, isn't it nice debating with SBP over the finer points of religion, with no hostility? Pete seems a reasonable, realistic person who doesn't throw insults to us "non-believers" and actually explains things, to help us understand.

Maybe he could pass this on to Trevel

 

[ccfc92]

Happy to be a prick if that helps you. I think it's bloody hard to not be selfish, greedy, bitter, angry etc etc and of course if we don't exert personal responsibility for our actions then we are pricks with or without faith. I don't do the good things I do cause I'm pleasing god or scared of him I do it because of gratitude for life itself.

I tried to find it but there is a cartoon of someone taking a selfie, while carrying out charity work. Basically, illustrating "look at me, look how good a person I am".

The people who are truly good, IMO, are those who carry out charitable or loving acts, without seeking recognition. Regardless of religion or race.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just a quick one, isn't it nice debating with SBP over the finer points of religion, with no hostility? Pete seems a reasonable, realistic person who doesn't throw insults to us "non-believers" and actually explains things, to help us understand.

Maybe he could pass this on to Trevel

You'll make me blush. I see most communication as an opportunity to learn something and for that to happen I need to do less of the talking and more of the listening. I know what I think I don't know what you lot think and I'm interested in that more than I am regurgitating my own thoughts.
It's also bloody arrogant of me to think I can tell you anything you don't already know and why would you listen in any case. It's different if someone asks my opinion of course and then I'll try and explain things as clearly as I'm able

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I tried to find it but there is a cartoon of someone taking a selfie, while carrying out charity work. Basically, illustrating "look at me, look how good a person I am".

The people who are truly good, IMO, are those who carry out charitable or loving acts, without seeking recognition. Regardless of religion or race.

Yep real humility is powerful

 

[ccfc92]

You'll make me blush. I see most communication as an opportunity to learn something and for that to happen I need to do less of the talking and more of the listening. I know what I think I don't know what you lot think and I'm interested in that more than I am regurgitating my own thoughts.
It's also bloody arrogant of me to think I can tell you anything you don't already know and why would you listen in any case. It's different if someone asks my opinion of course and then I'll try and explain things as clearly as I'm able

No, I know exactly what you mean

For example, the question earlier of 0-100% faith in God's existence, I find it intriguing how someone can have unwavering faith, despite the atrocities within the world that God created.

I'm humble enough to admit, I don't know, but if evidence was presented to me, I would base my opinion on that. At the minute, I only have what others have told me to go off, and seen the horrors in the world via the news etc, unfortunately

 

[ccfc92]

Yep real humility is powerful

I do also find it ironic how George Michael would, to some, be in Hell for his "sinful acts of Homosexuality", yet also carried out some incredibly Christian acts in his time on Earth to people in need, without seeking the media attention or recognition.

How sad, however, that it took his death to realise what a human being he was, rather than what the tabloids putting his personal life out for all to see, were making him out to be.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No, I know exactly what you mean

For example, the question earlier of 0-100% faith in God's existence, I find it intriguing how someone can have unwavering faith, despite the atrocities within the world that God created.

I'm humble enough to admit, I don't know, but if evidence was presented to me, I would base my opinion on that. At the minute, I only have what others have told me to go off, and seen the horrors in the world via the news etc, unfortunately

There's a lot of good

Friends of mine run the charity carriers of hope
Friends of mine run coffee tots
Friends of mine run the winter night shelter for homeless people

The news doesn't often show these things - I don't know why!

There's no rush on these things in a sense we have our whole lives to understand all there is and even then martcov is absolutely right we'll only know a small part of all there is to know

 

[ccfc92]

There's a lot of good

Friends of mine run the charity carriers of hope
Friends of mine run coffee tots
Friends of mine run the winter night shelter for homeless people

The news doesn't often show these things - I don't know why!

There's no rush on these things in a sense we have our whole lives to understand all there is and even then martcov is absolutely right we'll only know a small part of all there is to know

Sorry, I should have clarified, I know there is a lot of good in the world generally, by all people.

I just mean, like that little girl killed recently or the suffering of millions on daily basis. It makes it seems like maybe "Hell" is Earth itself at times.

 

[skybluedan]

Nah mate, but taught me what is right and what is wrong

Tbf she has started swearing hahahah

 

[skybluedan]

I mean we evolved straight from apes? Then why are there still apes

 

[skybluedan]

Sorry, I should have clarified, I know there is a lot of good in the world generally, by all people.

I just mean, like that little girl killed recently or the suffering of millions on daily basis. It makes it seems like maybe "Hell" is Earth itself at times.

Hell is earth sometimes pal

 

[skybluedan]

I was thinking if I know when m gonna kick it like , I would like to swallow loads of conkers or acorns so when I decompose I grow into a tree, i would say a big cannabis tree but as I'm not there to smoke myself I'd be so jealous , saying that it could be a place where folk meet up from all walks of life , punks Rastas emos, and just hang out and get stoned and naked that be so cool

 

[ccfc92]

I mean we evolved straight from apes? Then why are there still apes

We didn't. It took thousands of years with slight changes each generation

 

[skybluedan]

We didn't. It took thousands of years with slight changes each generation

So why has it stopped now then like ? These changes I mean,
Would love a set of wings like

 

[ccfc92]

So why has it stopped now then like ? These changes I mean,
Would love a set of wings like

It hasn't. We are taller than 100 years ago, living longer etc

 

[ccfc92]

I was thinking if I know when m gonna kick it like , I would like to swallow loads of conkers or acorns so when I decompose I grow into a tree, i would say a big cannabis tree but as I'm not there to smoke myself I'd be so jealous , saying that it could be a place where folk meet up from all walks of life , punks Rastas emos, and just hang out and get stoned and naked that be so cool

"What's that?"

"That's a SkyBlueDan tree, no one knows where the name came from, but it's a century old tradition to get baked under the tree"

 

[skybluedan]

"What's that?"

"That's a SkyBlueDan tree, no one knows where the name came from, but it's a century old tradition to get baked under the tree"

Touché my friend, and it starts again

 

[skybluedan]

"What's that?"

"That's a SkyBlueDan tree, no one knows where the name came from, but it's a century old tradition to get baked under the tree"

You know after that lovely comment I feel euphoric so I'm gonna have a big mug of tea and a blunt,
Tbf neither of the two are going to help me read through a shitload auditors reports that should of been done over a week ago,

 

[ccfc92]

You know after that lovely comment I feel euphoric so I'm gonna have a big mug of tea and a blunt,
Tbf neither of the two are going to help me read through a shitload auditors reports that should of been done over a week ago,

I've been on the beers since 4, so I'm not exactly sober

 

[skybluedan]

"What's that?"

"That's a SkyBlueDan tree, no one knows where the name came from, but it's a century old tradition to get baked under the tree"

Knowing my luck pal , it would probably be woooooo the scary tree been there for years branches like scary long arms , and just where that bloke was murdered