Response from MEP regarding SISU complaint to EU Commission (1 Viewer)

Colin Steins Smile · Sep 3, 2019

I've just received this response from Rupert Lowe this morning, who is one of the West Midland MEPs, when or if I receive any further information I'll post again :
Dear.....

I am still waiting for more information from the Commission re the ongoing dispute between Sisu, the owners of CCFC, and Wasps.

The complaint was filed to the European Commission in February and it is still being assessed so therefore it has not moved into full investigation yet.

If the European Commission decide to investigate, this could take many more months and would be classed as a legal investigation into Coventry City Council to see if Wasps underpaid in their purchase of the Ricoh Arena.

There is a dispute between Sisu and Wasps on whether this is legal action or not. However, the European Commission do define this as a “legal process”. This is a new process as the UK Court process ended in the Supreme Court.

If the commission establishes that there is a breach of the competition rules, then it will act accordingly.

If the final result of the European Commission is appealed, then this process could take many more years.

I will let you know as soon as I hear from the Commission, but unfortunately it looks like this is going to be a very long process and by the time any conclusion is made, the football clubs future will have already been decided.

Very best,

Rupert Lowe MEP

Otis · Sep 3, 2019

And I will be long in my grave too by the sounds of it.

JimmyHillsbeard · Sep 3, 2019

Colin Steins Smile said:
I've just received this response from Rupert Lowe this morning, who is one of the West Midland MEPs, when or if I receive any further information I'll post again :
Dear.....

I am still waiting for more information from the Commission re the ongoing dispute between Sisu, the owners of CCFC, and Wasps.

The complaint was filed to the European Commission in February and it is still being assessed so therefore it has not moved into full investigation yet.

If the European Commission decide to investigate, this could take many more months and would be classed as a legal investigation into Coventry City Council to see if Wasps underpaid in their purchase of the Ricoh Arena.

There is a dispute between Sisu and Wasps on whether this is legal action or not. However, the European Commission do define this as a “legal process”. This is a new process as the UK Court process ended in the Supreme Court.

If the commission establishes that there is a breach of the competition rules, then it will act accordingly.

If the final result of the European Commission is appealed, then this process could take many more years.

I will let you know as soon as I hear from the Commission, but unfortunately it looks like this is going to be a very long process and by the time any conclusion is made, the football clubs future will have already been decided.

Very best,

Rupert Lowe MEP

Rupert Lowe now a Brexit Party MEP was the former Southampton chairman who decided after weeks of negotiation not to sell that club to SiSU

Colin Steins Smile · Sep 3, 2019

One of the key statements in this response was: "the European Commission do define this as a “legal process”. =
Therefore, unless Wasps move from their position of not committing to a new contract for the club to play at the Ricoh until legal action is concluded. Then we face years playing away from Coventry, as this process could take years.

chiefdave · Sep 3, 2019

Colin Steins Smile said:
There is a dispute between Sisu and Wasps on whether this is legal action or not. However, the European Commission do define this as a “legal process”. This is a new process as the UK Court process ended in the Supreme Court.

Isn't the dispute over who would be taking any legal action? With Wasps and the council declaring it to be legal action taken by the club and CCFC saying it is for the commission to decide if there is a case to answer and therefore any legal action would be taken by them/

ajsccfc · Sep 3, 2019

Colin Steins Smile said:
One of the key statements in this response was: "the European Commission do define this as a “legal process”. =
Therefore, unless Wasps move from their position of not committing to a new contract for the club to play at the Ricoh until legal action is concluded. Then we face years playing away from Coventry, as this process could take years.

This is my fear, I don't see how we're back in the city any time soon with all this

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 3, 2019

JimmyHillsbeard said:
Rupert Lowe now a Brexit Party MEP was the former Southampton chairman who decided after weeks of negotiation not to sell that club to SiSU

And what a wise man (on that issue!) he was...

Colin Steins Smile · Sep 3, 2019

chiefdave said:
Isn't the dispute over who would be taking any legal action? With Wasps and the council declaring it to be legal action taken by the club and CCFC saying it is for the commission to decide if there is a case to answer and therefore any legal action would be taken by them/

It's a question of interpretation by the parties & wasps out of financial need may drop their current position.
However, the issue for the club is the potential for this to be a long process with the uncertainties attached. Therefore, they may wish to hold off making a decision to build a bespoke stadium until the conclusion.......assuming our owners are serious about funding it & an agreement could be reached with CCC for land. I'm not holding my breath.
In the interim, following OSB's assessment of the finances of SISU and the lack of impact NOPM has on the hedge fund.....I whilst I respect those who have chosen to stay away, I feel I must back the club and attend St Andrews.

fernandopartridge · Sep 3, 2019

Of course it's a 'legal process'. I think a lot of terms are conflated, court cases are not always legal cases and legal cases aren't always court cases.

Sky Blue Pete · Sep 3, 2019

Received the same word for word this morning too.

Very good point about who Rupert Lowe was and now is. Surely a story there for a journalist to ask him from his perspective why he didn’t sell to Sisu and what he know thinks of the situation

Also for a solution

hill83 · Sep 3, 2019

SkyblueBazza · Sep 3, 2019

Otis said:
And I will be long in my grave too by the sounds of it.

Me too.

Not the same one of course!

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Otis · Sep 3, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
Me too.

Not the same one of course!

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Yeah, get your own, cheapskate!

oldskyblue58 · Sep 3, 2019

Tie those responses in with what the wasps sports CEO Steve Vaughn was saying on CWR last night and it is hard to see any imminent return to the Ricoh. It is also pretty clear that wasps are setting up to continue without CCFC being there for foreseeable future. The problem is viewed by wasps as a legal dispute and that dispute is between the two sets of owners not the two clubs.

BBC Coventry & Warwickshire - BBC Coventry & Warwickshire Sport: The Sky Blues phone-in, 02/09/2019 after about 30 minutes or so

There is as ever a lot of playing with words. Bottom line is both sets of owners are entitled to act as they see fit for their respective businesses, so long as it is legal. SISU cant really hide behind its not us taking the action, they instigated the process knowing full well what would happen next and set it in motion for a purpose. Wasps owners have chosen not to engage with SISU any further, they could have done a deal despite the EC investigation but have taken a decision not to.

From the their own individual and selfish stand points neither is actually wrong in the actions they have chosen to take no matter how much it hurts the two clubs or the fans disagree. Brinksmanship pure and simple, but you could argue SISU have lost control of their side because they can not now stop or change how it all runs out.

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 3, 2019

oldskyblue58 said:
you could argue SISU have lost control of their side because they can not now stop or change how it all runs out.

As you say, they knew what would happen.

It plays into their PR efforts better than previous legal moves, as it allows them to say they can't stop it. With the others, that was always the option. Now? Well, they can play the victim...

oldskyblue58 · Sep 3, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
As you say, they knew what would happen.

It plays into their PR efforts better than previous legal moves, as it allows them to say they can't stop it. With the others, that was always the option. Now? Well, they can play the victim...

they can play it but a lot of interested parties and fans simply do not believe it

It is very difficult to believe given all of their business experience and £££££££'s of legal advice spent that they simply did not see how things would play out when they made the complaint in February....... it was their choice to do it, and clearly had an objective in mind in doing so, i doubt said objective was ever centred on CCFC and its fans mind you. They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew the likely reaction.

You can argue they had a fair idea of process and timescales involved and have planned accordingly. Complaint made in February, knowing timescales and probable reactions, not disclosed till April. Accounts signed off as going concern for at least 12mths to February 2020 by directors and auditors 28 February 2019 you would assume just after complaint made. There must have been some assessment of going concern risk to be able to sign off, there must have been a plan that involved staying and not staying. SISU very often leave things to the last moment to go public in order to cut down opponents reaction time but to think they hadn't carefully planned ahead would be quite wrong

covcity4life · Sep 3, 2019

Depressing in contrast to how season is going

oldskyblue58 · Sep 3, 2019

covcity4life said:
Depressing in contrast to how season is going

very true ........ current future on the pitch looks good, long term future off it still as clear as mud

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 3, 2019

covcity4life said:
Depressing in contrast to how season is going

Don't want to get too happy, we're City fans!

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 3, 2019

oldskyblue58 said:
they can play it but a lot of interested parties and fans simply do not believe it

They've got more traction than before.

covcity4life · Sep 3, 2019

Im just stikcing to hope that promotion chnages sumthing in this sorry saga

Will get me thru season

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 3, 2019

covcity4life said:
Im just stikcing to hope that promotion chnages sumthing in this sorry saga

Will get me thru season

It may be the mindset of a Cov fan, but I always think the higher up the ladder we are, the more cushion there is for when we fall!

covcity4life · Sep 3, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
It may be the mindset of a Cov fan, but I always think the higher up the ladder we are, the more cushion there is for when we fall!

It is fantasy but more chance of super rich conglomerate coming in to buy us abd ricoh in champiobship than their is in league 1

RegTheDonk · Sep 3, 2019

So what's the difference in £ what Wasps paid compared to how much they should have paid, under the same terms (ie. eleventy billion years or whatever the lease was)?

oldskyblue58 · Sep 3, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
They've got more traction than before.

yes they have managed the situation better this time, but success on the pitch has helped

SkyblueBazza · Sep 3, 2019

oldskyblue58 said:
they can play it but a lot of interested parties and fans simply do not believe it

It is very difficult to believe given all of their business experience and £££££££'s of legal advice spent that they simply did not see how things would play out when they made the complaint in February....... it was their choice to do it, and clearly had an objective in mind in doing so, i doubt said objective was ever centred on CCFC and its fans mind you. They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew the likely reaction.

You can argue they had a fair idea of process and timescales involved and have planned accordingly. Complaint made in February, knowing timescales and probable reactions, not disclosed till April. Accounts signed off as going concern for at least 12mths to February 2020 by directors and auditors 28 February 2019 you would assume just after complaint made. There must have been some assessment of going concern risk to be able to sign off, there must have been a plan that involved staying and not staying. SISU very often leave things to the last moment in order to cut down opponents reaction time but to think they hadnt carefully planned ahead would be quite wrong

Let's face it...they are huge chancers.

They have chanced their way through from the start. Sometimes it works, mostly it hasn't.

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shmmeee · Sep 3, 2019

covcity4life said:
Im just stikcing to hope that promotion chnages sumthing in this sorry saga

Will get me thru season

Our only hope at the moment is cooler heads prevailing at Wasps and then deciding we’re worth more than the principle of not dealing with people trying to put you out of business.

You’d hope promotion, and the crowds that came with it, would strengthen our case.

Of course it also means we’re a richer target for a fleecing on the deal and round we go again. Remember the issues with the Ricoh rent only really arose after relegation.

oldskyblue58 · Sep 3, 2019

RegTheDonk said:
So what's the difference in £ what Wasps paid compared to how much they should have paid, under the same terms (ie. eleventy billion years or whatever the lease was)?

anywhere between 0 and £27m apparently depending on your view point

hill83 · Sep 3, 2019

covcity4life said:
Depressing in contrast to how season is going

What? We are shit and finishing 17th.

Mcbean · Sep 3, 2019

Does the action stop when we leave the EU on 31 October ?

Colin Steins Smile · Sep 3, 2019

Mcbean said:
Does the action stop when we leave the EU on 31 October ?

My understanding is no! This was raised whilst the uk was a member

covcity4life · Sep 3, 2019

hill83 said:
What? We are shit and finishing 17th.

Sorry grendel

Sky Blue Pete · Sep 3, 2019

Mcbean said:
Does the action stop when we leave the EU on 31 October ?

Potentially if depends on the deal but the other meps who’ve replied have said absolutely it could end when uk leaves

ccfcricoh · Sep 3, 2019

None of this reads too well for us, I do think SISU are just waiting for W*sps to be financially in trouble, which i imagine will come before CCFC are, in the hope they either disappear or change their stance and let us back.

Best get used to my seat at Stans in the meantime...

Just build a ground please SISU so we never have to deal with them again (optimistic i know!)

cc84cov · Sep 3, 2019

St Andrews 5-10 years my guess

Response from MEP regarding SISU complaint to EU Commission (1 Viewer)

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