Richardson started debt crisis? (1 Viewer)

[SonOfSnoz]

People blame Sisu, but Richardson started Ricoh move & splashed out on very expensive players!
Should have stayed at Highfield & stuck with likes of Billing & Flynn!
Hope FL investigate Richardson as he created CCFC Holdings in 1995,
start of confusion.
Bet blame lies somewhere around that period!
Investigate the Richadson era!

 

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[Sisued]

Well that era certainly started the rot. All the board members since Richardson should be held accountable to greater or least degrees.
Hangings to good for them in my present state of mind

 

[shmmeee]

People blame Sisu, but Richardson started Ricoh move & splashed out on very expensive players!
Should have stayed at Highfield & stuck with likes of Billing & Flynn!
Hope FL investigate Richardson as he created CCFC Holdings in 1995,
start of confusion.
Bet blame lies somewhere around that period!
Investigate the Richadson era!

To be fair the game had moved on a bit since Billing or Flynn. Had we taken the course you suggest we would've hemmoraged fans to Prem clubs as we get relegated early on, leading to us being roughly where we are now but with less support and less interest in buyers.

I think it's easy in hindsight to say he ruined the club, but the fact of the matter was everyone agreed HR wasn't sustainable if we wanted to stop throwing money away trying to keep up with the Prem. In an alternate universe this thread could be about how Richardson ruined us by not "speculating to accumulate".

Our debt was always manageable until ITV digital collapses and McGinnity fucked up our chances of a quick promotion.

The game turned very quickly from something a local businessman could do in his spare time into a multimillion multinational industry. I think it's a little harsh to judge those caught out of their depth.

All this wallowing in the past just serves Sisus cause. Yes there were mistakes, but the facts are all the current debt is Sisus, as is the relegation and move to Northampton.

Edit: don't buy into Sisus FUD that this Holdings confusion ever existed. Let alone that it went back to 1995.

 

[RFC]

At long, long last, finally getting much closer to the truth IMHO! PUSB

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

At long, long last, finally getting much closer to the truth IMHO! PUSB

You have'nt got an HO

 

[Sisued]

Are you still here?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Our downfall was staying in the prem to long. If we had of got relegated in the mid 90`s the Ricoh would not of come off and we could of regrouped at Highfield Rd over a 10 year period and been more sustainable. Look at WBA, Norwich and Palace all at there existing stadiums too.
Please HR come back

 

[oldskyblue58]

Don't get me wrong Richardson was a disaster for our club but we need to be clear on the debt. Richardson played a a big part in creating the path to where we are today but things have moved on

Just about all the net debt we had in 2007 however has been written off. The real debt we have now is generated under SISU. I say real debt because the headline figure includes pre SISU takeover debt that has been written off by creditors but left as outstanding in CCFC Ltd and CCFC H Ltd.

You can argue about whether the new debt was unavoidable, money well spent or SISU supporting or crippling the club. Just be clear as to when the real debt has arisen

 

[Warwickhunt]

How is this going to help today's situation

 

[chiefdave]

Don't think anyone would argue Richardson got us in a right old mess but you can't escape the fact that SISU would (or at least should) have known exactly what the situation was when they took over and failed spectacularly at turning things round.

You can't keep going back and blaming old regimes or are we saying that noone can sort out CCFC and if we are what do we do, give up?

 

[SkyBlueBlood]

People blame Sisu, but Richardson started Ricoh move & splashed out on very expensive players!
Should have stayed at Highfield & stuck with likes of Billing & Flynn!
Hope FL investigate Richardson as he created CCFC Holdings in 1995,
start of confusion.
Bet blame lies somewhere around that period!
Investigate the Richadson era!

Thats like saying it's King Alfred's fault for the current recession because he burnt the cakes!

Richardson made a huge mess, but that was years ago and owners since had a chance to put it right and did reduce the debt (just not enough) and then these SISU retards waltzed in and took us from £25m in debt to an alleged £70m in debt and growing as well as playing in a lower league, no prospect of avoiding relegation this season or probably next and playing 35 miles from Coventry City.

I wonder why "some" people blame SISU, could it be because they have an ounce of intelligence?

 

[thaiskyblue]

Don't think anyone would argue Richardson got us in a right old mess but you can't escape the fact that SISU would (or at least should) have known exactly what the situation was when they took over and failed spectacularly at turning things round.

You can't keep going back and blaming old regimes or are we saying that noone can sort out CCFC and if we are what do we do, give up?

sisu do know we are just a dustbin for there fiddles, i wish people would wake up and see
it.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

How is this going to help today's situation

Hindsight is a fine thing?
Learn from mistakes?
In Paul Fletcher's words, "there's no future in the past"?

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Thats like saying it's King Alfred's fault for the current recession because he burnt the cakes!

Richardson made a huge mess, but that was years ago and owners since had a chance to put it right and did reduce the debt (just not enough) and then these SISU retards waltzed in and took us from £25m in debt to an alleged £70m in debt and growing as well as playing in a lower league, no prospect of avoiding relegation this season or probably next and playing 35 miles from Coventry City.

I wonder why "some" people blame SISU, could it be because they have an ounce of intelligence?

Well Sisu have finally got Cov playing in a third division stadium, with third division players in front of third division crowds!
So they got the level right, but prem level is the key!

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Jesus Christ...it's as though a few people seem to be sympathetic to Richardson because of their anti-SISU views. Each to their own and all that but OSB/ChiefDave, your posts almost have a hint of 'yeah, Richardson was bad, but actually we're in the mess mainly because of SISU'.

Let's not let that toe-rag of the hook. You're right OSB about the legacy debt from Richardsons era pretty much being non-existent. But, had we not been £64m in debt towards the end of our prem reign, we wouldn't be where we are now. OK, so we might have got relegated earlier but Richardson is most definitely as much to blame for our demise as SISU.

WM

 

[ricohman]

I for one loved those years, watching the likes of hadji, boateng, chippo, mc allister, keane, huckerby, etc. If we hadnt of invested in them players we would of been relegated sooner

 

[SkyBlueBlood]

Jesus Christ...it's as though a few people seem to be sympathetic to Richardson because of their anti-SISU views. Each to their own and all that but OSB/ChiefDave, your posts almost have a hint of 'yeah, Richardson was bad, but actually we're in the mess mainly because of SISU'.

Let's not let that toe-rag of the hook. You're right OSB about the legacy debt from Richardsons era pretty much being non-existent. But, had we not been £64m in debt towards the end of our prem reign, we wouldn't be where we are now. OK, so we might have got relegated earlier but Richardson is most definitely as much to blame for our demise as SISU.

WM

Can't see where anyone has said Richardson did ok! The point is that SISU started with an almost blank page and wrote their own disaster story.

 

[stupot07]

I for one loved those years, watching the likes of hadji, boateng, chippo, mc allister, keane, huckerby, etc. If we hadnt of invested in them players we would of been relegated sooner

True, but that would have given us the opportunity to build properly like West Brom before silly season wages kicked in.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Can't see where anyone has said Richardson did ok! The point is that SISU started with an almost blank page and wrote their own disaster story.

And if Richardson hadn't taken us where he did, SISU would never have needed to come into town and Robinson etc wouldn't have needed to bring them to the table.

WM

 

[SonOfSnoz]

sisu do know we are just a dustbin for there fiddles, i wish people would wake up and see
it.

Exactly! Sisu know exactly what they're doing from day one!
Made a few booboos along the way, but they found the right distressed company to clear their debts, which is the purpose of their business!
When will people reliase this?
Of course we want our club in the prem, owning the Ricoh.
Sisu have us in the 3rd division playing in a 4th, but we finally sustainable!
Living within our means!
Sisu clear their debts, cov clears its.
Everyone's a winner!
Hopefully Sixfields is just the horrible short term before the long successful!
Who remembers when we had crowds of 12k at Highfield in the prem?
10k at Ricoh in league one was good!

 

[Jack Griffin]

Richardson was bad for the club, but SISU took ownership of the club in 2007 knowing the score & having completed due diligence.

Do you think SISU would be slow in suing the ass off Richardson, Robinson other CCFC former board members if they had found a shred of evidence to indicate they had suffered financial losses because of lies they'd been told?

We have to take things as they are.. there is no magic time travelling bullet of blame to wipe out the ills of the past.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Exactly! Sisu know exactly what they're doing from day one!
Made a few booboos along the way, but they found the right distressed company to clear their debts, which is the purpose of their business!
When will people reliase this?
Of course we want our club in the prem, owning the Ricoh.
Sisu have us in the 3rd division playing in a 4th, but we finally sustainable!
Living within our means!
Sisu clear their debts, cov clears its.
Everyone's a winner!
Hopefully Sixfields is just the horrible short term before the long successful!
Who remembers when we had crowds of 12k at Highfield in the prem?
10k at Ricoh in league one was good!

Yes I can remember when we had crowds of 12000 in the prem when Man U had average of 35000 which is less than half of what they get now. Things have moved on AFC Wimbledon now get bigger crowds than when Wimbledon were in the top flight

 

[oldskyblue58]

not absolving him wm in any way shape or form. But in 2007/2008 there was an opportunity for a new start from pretty close to a nil net debt situation. There were opportunities to do things in different ways. To do things in ways that may have seen the club prosper. Have never changed in what i think should have been done and to some degree some of what I wanted done from the start is now being done (cut costs to match income, reliance on youth for example). Sadly SISU have created the current debt even if they didnt create the situation that meant they are here at all.

It isnt a question of hating or loving SISU and it isnt a question of letting any of the other characters involved in the last 20 years off the hook.

But to be honest we need to deal with what is, not what happened leading up to 2007. We can change the future we cant change the past

 

[TurkeyTrot]

not absolving him wm in any way shape or form. But in 2007/2008 there was an opportunity for a new start from pretty close to a nil net debt situation. There were opportunities to do things in different ways. To do things in ways that may have seen the club prosper. Have never changed in what i think should have been done and to some degree some of what I wanted done from the start is now being done (cut costs to match income, reliance on youth for example). Sadly SISU have created the current debt even if they didnt create the situation that meant they are here at all.

It isnt a question of hating or loving SISU and it isnt a question of letting any of the other characters involved in the last 20 years off the hook.

But to be honest we need to deal with what is, not what happened leading up to 2007. We can change the future we cant change the past

I can't believe I'm going to type this, maybe the older you get the more wiser you get, or senile...
Probably out of all the people he finger has been pointed at Richardson was the one I held most accountable along with our Geoffrey, from the days of "where's the money gone" to the first SoS and the first rebirth of it etc etc.
Looking back, Richardson had a vision, not a Sky Blue vision, he wanted the Ricoh to be the new Wembley don't forget. when that fell through the 64k capacity stadium got halved in size and the retractable roof went the same way as the retractable pitch.
But he very nearly pulled it off. He was unlucky, relegation was our downfall, close but no cigar, we've gone from roll ups to dog ends ever since. I think he fell into the same thinking as all of us, the Sky Blue ship was unsinkable and never planned for that fateful day at Villa Park.
The club simply ran out of money.
The council bailed us out.
The club ran out of money
Higgs bailed us out
The club ran out of money
The owners of the club had nowhere to go and SISU stepped up to the plate. Maybe the didn't realise the plate only had a few scraps left on it.

 

[Tank Top]

Don't get me wrong Richardson was a disaster for our club but we need to be clear on the debt. Richardson played a a big part in creating the path to where we are today but things have moved on

Just about all the net debt we had in 2007 however has been written off. The real debt we have now is generated under SISU. I say real debt because the headline figure includes pre SISU takeover debt that has been written off by creditors but left as outstanding in CCFC Ltd and CCFC H Ltd.

You can argue about whether the new debt was unavoidable, money well spent or SISU supporting or crippling the club. Just be clear as to when the real debt has arisen

Its absolutely undeniable, Richardson got the club in serious dept by signing expensive players, that were beyond our budget,
But SiSu have got the club in similar dept, without signing anyone, and just look at our sad plight at the moment, who were worse owners,
The Richardson lot did have assets in the club, What do SISU have, except a destructive attitude.
I'm not a Richardson Fan by the way, but were we better off then or now?

 

[stupot07]

Why didn't Robinson and Elliot et al put ccfc into admin in 2007?

I'm not convinced Robinson ever 'wrote' off that money which is why it's still listed as a liability.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Why didn't Robinson and Elliot et al put ccfc into admin in 2007?

I'm not convinced Robinson ever 'wrote' off that money which is why it's still listed as a liability.

It was mentioned somewhere that a condition of SISU taking over was that they retained the debt GR wrote off on the books.. I wish I'd bookmarked that claim now..

 

[stupot07]

It was mentioned somewhere that a condition of SISU taking over was that they retained the debt GR wrote off on the books.. I wish I'd bookmarked that claim now..

Why not go for admin and see who takes over? Why were they so adamant on SISU buying them?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Why not go for admin and see who takes over? Why were they so adamant on SISU buying them?

There was some sort of % payback to GR etc. if the club got to the PL inside a certain time.

 

[SkyBlueSid]

Our downfall was staying in the prem to long. If we had of got relegated in the mid 90`s the Ricoh would not of come off and we could of regrouped at Highfield Rd over a 10 year period and been more sustainable. Look at WBA, Norwich and Palace all at there existing stadiums too.
Please HR come back

But the Premier League was where the money was, so that's where we needed to stay. We were relegated with a team that was good enough to finish mid-table, simply because Strachan lost the plot. I am still convinced that, had we sacked Strachan at Christmas, we would have survived. We were certainly spending too heavily, but with the subsequent income received by Premier clubs, it may have been survivable. Once we were relegated we were stuffed!

The sale of Highfield Road was certainly a huge factor. We could have continued there for longer than we did, but remember we sold the ground and ended up renting it. Then the money had been squandered before the Ricoh was built. It was certainly poor management on a huge scale, but relegation was no blessing, it sealed our fate. A change of ownership could have seen us rebuild like the teams you mention, but instead we got this bunch of shysters. We thought it couldn't get worse - how wrong we were!

 

[stupot07]

There was some sort of % payback to GR etc. if the club got to the PL inside a certain time.

Probably 10 years...

 

[Jack Griffin]

Probably 10 years...

Nope, I believe OSB spotted a £6M liability write off in the accounts.. which he thought was it.

 

[stupot07]

Nope, I believe OSB spotted a £6M liability write off in the accounts.. which he thought was it.

So not confirmed then.

 

[chiefdave]

Jesus Christ...it's as though a few people seem to be sympathetic to Richardson because of their anti-SISU views. Each to their own and all that but OSB/ChiefDave, your posts almost have a hint of 'yeah, Richardson was bad, but actually we're in the mess mainly because of SISU'.

surely we are in this mess now because of SISU? Richardson was terrible for the club there's no doubting that but you have to draw a line under it at some point and that was when SISU took over without a requirement to pay off the old debt, essentially they picked up a debt free club for nothing (the fact that the debt suddenly reappeared during the administration process means little). So from that point SISU have got us in more debt than Richardson ever did, in League 1 and playing in Northampton in front of less than 1000 of our own fans.