Ricoh events and Wasps ticket outlet (7 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

was that their new found fans who usually watched the football? Wasn't you was it italia? ;-)

I sleep on the printout

 

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[Calista]

While I was checking the historical average attendances for Wasps I thought I'd copy various comments I saw.

I’ve never been in the “hate Wasps” camp, but I’m always willing to be persuaded by proper arguments / evidence, and the list of comments you posted is quite distressing – thanks for unearthing them CD, because I had looked in vain a few times for such stuff on the web. It’s never nice to see fans of any sports club mistreated.

But then I keep coming back to the feeble nature of the opposition that was put up. No marches or anything like that, and I think there was a petition that only mustered a small fraction of their home gate. Compare that to the furious storms of protests and activities that accompanied the Sixfields move (even though it was temporary). Different sports, different tribal attitudes, different circumstances, different motives, different effects. IMHO it’s wrong to say, as it often is on here, that the two things are equivalent.

Why the different reactions? By the time of the move, most Wasps fans lived around Wycombe, but that town couldn’t really claim to own Wasps could it? And it’s some distance from London - the only consensus about where they should play seemed to be along the lines of “somewhere in London or the Home Counties”. That’s a truly enormous area which suggests no real sense of place among the fans - like Birmingham City playing in Stratford on Avon for 12 years and then people suggesting Lichfield or Halesowen. By contrast, everybody knows that Coventry City belong specifically in Coventry and NOWHERE ELSE.

The move is done & dusted, is most likely successful, and seems to be giving pleasure to many people including a lot of traditional Wasps fans. I respect the “evil franchise” argument, I just think it’s overdone and pointless. The cause of our problems lies elsewhere.

 

[Grendel]

I’ve never been in the “hate Wasps” camp, but I’m always willing to be persuaded by proper arguments / evidence, and the list of comments you posted is quite distressing – thanks for unearthing them CD, because I had looked in vain a few times for such stuff on the web. It’s never nice to see fans of any sports club mistreated.

But then I keep coming back to the feeble nature of the opposition that was put up. No marches or anything like that, and I think there was a petition that only mustered a small fraction of their home gate. Compare that to the furious storms of protests and activities that accompanied the Sixfields move (even though it was temporary). Different sports, different tribal attitudes, different circumstances, different motives, different effects. IMHO it’s wrong to say, as it often is on here, that the two things are equivalent.

Why the different reactions? By the time of the move, most Wasps fans lived around Wycombe, but that town couldn’t really claim to own Wasps could it? And it’s some distance from London - the only consensus about where they should play seemed to be along the lines of “somewhere in London or the Home Counties”. That’s a truly enormous area which suggests no real sense of place among the fans - like Birmingham City playing in Stratford on Avon for 12 years and then people suggesting Lichfield or Halesowen. By contrast, everybody knows that Coventry City belong specifically in Coventry and NOWHERE ELSE.

The move is done & dusted, is most likely successful, and seems to be giving pleasure to many people including a lot of traditional Wasps fans. I respect the “evil franchise” argument, I just think it’s overdone and pointless. The cause of our problems lies elsewhere.

Pretty dumb though isn't it to say we were opposed to franchised sport when we are a city that embraces it?

As for furious storms of protest - when? A fee thousand strolling around town, 3 blokes and a dog at FA Hq and a few people standing on a hill? Hardly the Tollpuddle Martyrs is it?

 

[chiefdave]

I think a big part of it was that is was only made public once it was a done deal. Think about how long it took before there was a decent sized protest against the Sixfields move.

 

[Calista]

Pretty dumb though isn't it to say we were opposed to franchised sport when we are a city that embraces it?

As for furious storms of protest - when? A fee thousand strolling around town, 3 blokes and a dog at FA Hq and a few people standing on a hill? Hardly the Tollpuddle Martyrs is it?

The protests against Northampton weren't fancy notions about being opposed to franchised sport. It was much simpler - Coventry City have to play in Coventry. Strange that you can so easily dismiss the march in Cov and the season-long hill protests by CCFC fans. Yet you endlessly argue a moral case on behalf of Wasps fans, who couldn't even be bothered to "stroll around" High Wycombe or London or wherever they belong.

 

[Calista]

I think a big part of it was that is was only made public once it was a done deal. Think about how long it took before there was a decent sized protest against the Sixfields move.

It's a fair point - although I have to say that it took me precisely half a second to decide that I wouldn't go to games in Northampton, even though Mr. Fisher presumed I would. That boycott by the vast majority of City supporters was in itself a protest, and it kicked in on day one.

 

[chiefdave]

That boycott by the vast majority of City supporters was in itself a protest, and it kicked in on day one.

Given the % of ticket sales they claim to be to CV postcodes the same could be said of Wasps fans. The difference is the Northampton public didn't turn up in their thousands to support a team that had moved to another city.

 

[Sick Boy]

What was the % from CV postcodes?

 

[chiefdave]

What was the % from CV postcodes?

Can't remember exactly, they said something along the lines of 70% of tickets were CV1 - CV6 postcodes. If you then add in other local areas outside those postcodes thats a very large % so not many coming from Wycombe.

And of course that was last season when they were laying on free transport from London and Wycombe so likely to be lower now.

I've said before there's a reason Wasps haven't said what % of pre-Ricoh season ticket holders have renewed.

 

[Grendel]

What was the % from CV postcodes?

92% according to Eastwood.

 

[skybluetony176]

The protests against Northampton weren't fancy notions about being opposed to franchised sport. It was much simpler - Coventry City have to play in Coventry. Strange that you can so easily dismiss the march in Cov and the season-long hill protests by CCFC fans. Yet you endlessly argue a moral case on behalf of Wasps fans, who couldn't even be bothered to "stroll around" High Wycombe or London or wherever they belong.

It's because it showed up SISU and their decision making. Grendull doesn't like to speak out against SISU or the disastrous decisions they make for CCFC. He much prefers to cause a distraction from that by endlessly waffling on about wasps, ccc, Higgs, Andy thorn, the ct etc. etc.

They would have gotten away with it to if it wasn't for those pesky strolling around the town protesters.

 

[Grendel]

It's because it showed up SISU and their decision making. Grendull doesn't like to speak out against SISU or the disastrous decisions they make for CCFC. He much prefers to cause a distraction from that by endlessly waffling on about wasps, ccc, Higgs, Andy thorn, the ct etc. etc.

They would have gotten away with it to if it wasn't for those pesky strolling around the town protesters.

Gotten away with what?

 

[skybluetony176]

Gotten away with what?

Well at least you finally admit that you think they've done nothing wrong. I guess that means your old "I know SISU carry some of the blame but..." get out line is finally out the window.

 

[Grendel]

Well at least you finally admit that you think they've done nothing wrong. I guess that means your old "I know SISU carry some of the blame but..." get out line is finally out the window.

Sorry? You said gotten away with it. I didn't know what you were referring to? Gotten away with what?

 

[skybluetony176]

Sorry? You said gotten away with it. I didn't know what you were referring to? Gotten away with what?

If you thought that they've done something wrong you really wouldn't have to be asking now would you?

 

[Captain Dart]

Pretty dumb though isn't it to say we were opposed to franchised sport when we are a city that embraces it?

As for furious storms of protest - when? A fee thousand strolling around town, 3 blokes and a dog at FA Hq and a few people standing on a hill? Hardly the Tollpuddle Martyrs is it?

You expose your pro SISU agenda by dismissing 2 very well attended protest marches as nothing but a stroll around town. You could only say that if you didn't really care that CCFC were not playing in Coventry.

 

[Nick]

You expose your pro SISU agenda by dismissing 2 very well attended protest marches as nothing but a stroll around town. You could only say that if you didn't really care that CCFC were not playing in Coventry.

Are you going to reply to my PMs or not?

 

[italiahorse]

You expose your pro SISU agenda by dismissing 2 very well attended protest marches as nothing but a stroll around town. You could only say that if you didn't really care that CCFC were not playing in Coventry.

Backed up by attending with the minority at Sixfields.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well at least you finally admit that you think they've done nothing wrong. I guess that means your old "I know SISU carry some of the blame but..." get out line is finally out the window.

Gotten away with what, Tony?

 

[Moff]

Backed up by attending with the minority at Sixfields.

I thought you didnt critcise people who went to Sixfields. A bit hypoctitical in my opinion.

 

[italiahorse]

I thought you didnt critcise people who went to Sixfields. A bit hypoctitical in my opinion.[/

Not criticising him for going just pointing out that Sisu plan needed him there.

 

[skybluetony176]

Gotten away with what, Tony?

As a collective of fans we held them accountable wether that be the two marches, legends game, the continuos presence on the Hill, petition, boycotting Sixfields etc.

Something to be proud of not dismissive of I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Moff]

I thought you didnt critcise people who went to Sixfields. A bit hypoctitical in my opinion.[/

Not criticising him for going just pointing out that Sisu plan needed him there.

The SISU plan did need people there and it failed. As you would say, 'you need to move on'

I dont balme fans for going, it was SISU that moved us not them. On the other hand whereas you deny it, I suspect your post has the tone of criticism about it.

 

[Grendel]

Not criticising him for going just pointing out that Sisu plan needed him there.

What was the sisu plan then?

 

[Grendel]

As a collective of fans we held them accountable wether that be the two marches, legends game, the continuos presence on the Hill, petition, boycotting Sixfields etc.

Something to be proud of not dismissive of I'm sure you'll agree.

He asked what they had or would have gotten away with.

Why will you not answer the point?

 

[skybluetony176]

He asked what they had or would have gotten away with.

Why will you not answer the point?

Are you pretending to be stupid or are we to believe that you don't know what the protests, petition and boycott of Sixfields were about?

 

[Grendel]

Are you pretending to be stupid or are we to believe that you don't know what the protests, petition and boycott of Sixfields were about?

To stop sisu getting away with something you said? What?

 

[skybluetony176]

To stop sisu getting away with something you said? What?

So you don't know what the protests etc. were about. That explains alot.

 

[Grendel]

So you don't know what the protests etc. were about. That explains alot.

Fair enough you made a comment you can't back up and now are embarrassed - same as yesterday with some player that didn't exist.

I'll leave you alone now.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fair enough you made a comment you can't back up and now are embarrassed - same as yesterday with some player that didn't exist.

I'll leave you alone now.

Oh dear. Would I not play along with you're leading questions so you've had to result to plan B, personal attacks. Seriously, if you don't know what the protests, boycott etc. was over read up. It's well documented from a number of sources. Local papers covered the marches extensively, the national papers picked up the back ground also. You might find it very revealing as you've clearly missed alot.

 

[italiahorse]

What was the sisu plan then?

You tell me you went along with it ?

No, I'll entertain you again.
They wanted to obtain the Ricoh freehold but were not prepared to pay what it was worth.
They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.
The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.

 

[Nick]

You tell me you went along with it ?

No, I'll entertain you again.
They wanted to obtain the Ricoh freehold but were not prepared to pay what it was worth.
They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.
The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.

They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.

Why did the Wasps owner pay himself back when the bonds came in? Why did he wait to get some of his money back when they took over the Ricoh?

The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.

Wasps had regard for fans when they moved them PERMANENTLY about 80 miles?

Is your post a wind up or do you miss the irony completely?

 

[Calista]

Can't remember exactly, they said something along the lines of 70% of tickets were CV1 - CV6 postcodes. If you then add in other local areas outside those postcodes thats a very large % so not many coming from Wycombe.

And of course that was last season when they were laying on free transport from London and Wycombe so likely to be lower now.

I've said before there's a reason Wasps haven't said what % of pre-Ricoh season ticket holders have renewed.

I'm sure I read that in recent years at Adams Park, 80% of Wasps STH's were from the Wycombe area, so in effect they'd already turned over their support from one place to another. I realise that two wrongs don't make a right, and moving to Coventry was basically a second offence. But it tends to destroy the argument that Wasps should have gone to Upton Park or wherever, because that would have been just as much of a kick in the teeth for the Buckinghamshire supporters. The bottom line is that everyone knew Adams Park wasn't sustainable, and there was no scenario that didn't involve creating some losers. Coventry ended up "acquiring" a top-level sports club, and however distasteful that is in terms of sporting tradition, it's something that I suspect any other local authority would have done under the circumstances. It's happened.

 

[Nick]

I suspect any other other local authority would have done under the circumstances. It's happened.

Even after saying how wrong it is to move clubs?

 

[Grendel]

I'm sure I read that in recent years at Adams Park, 80% of Wasps STH's were from the Wycombe area, so in effect they'd already turned over their support from one place to another. I realise that two wrongs don't make a right, and moving to Coventry was basically a second offence. But it tends to destroy the argument that Wasps should have gone to Upton Park or wherever, because that would have been just as much of a kick in the teeth for the Buckinghamshire supporters. The bottom line is that everyone knew Adams Park wasn't sustainable, and there was no scenario that didn't involve creating some losers. Coventry ended up "acquiring" a top-level sports club, and however distasteful that is in terms of sporting tradition, it's something that I suspect any other local authority would have done under the circumstances. It's happened.

Isn't this a rehash of a post you made two years ago?