Ricoh events and Wasps ticket outlet (7 Viewers)

[SkyBlueZack]

I'm sure I read that in recent years at Adams Park, 80% of Wasps STH's were from the Wycombe area, so in effect they'd already turned over their support from one place to another. I realise that two wrongs don't make a right, and moving to Coventry was basically a second offence. But it tends to destroy the argument that Wasps should have gone to Upton Park or wherever, because that would have been just as much of a kick in the teeth for the Buckinghamshire supporters. The bottom line is that everyone knew Adams Park wasn't sustainable, and there was no scenario that didn't involve creating some losers. Coventry ended up "acquiring" a top-level sports club, and however distasteful that is in terms of sporting tradition, it's something that I suspect any other local authority would have done under the circumstances. It's happened.

Must be on the wind up? It's ridiculous how you can swap Wasps for SISU and the whole attitude of people changes. Mind boggling. More so that most don't see the irony or hypocrisy.

 

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[Grendel]

Must be on the wind up? It's ridiculous how you can swap Wasps for SISU and the whole attitude of people changes. Mind boggling. More so that most don't see the irony or hypocrisy.

90% of his posts are geared to defending wasps. I suspect he is a member of their infamous PR machine.

 

[Nick]

Must be on the wind up? It's ridiculous how you can swap Wasps for SISU and the whole attitude of people changes. Mind boggling. More so that most don't see the irony or hypocrisy.

"you what? SISU giving free tickets away? Desperate, just trying to trick attendances, just trying to get locals there."
"you what? Wasps giving away free tickets? top marketing! how can I get one?"

 

[italiahorse]

They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.

Why did the Wasps owner pay himself back when the bonds came in? Why did he wait to get some of his money back when they took over the Ricoh?

The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.

Wasps had regard for fans when they moved them PERMANENTLY about 80 miles?

Is your post a wind up or do you miss the irony completely?

He asked what the Sisu plan was not what the Wasps plan was.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

You tell me you went along with it ?

No, I'll entertain you again.
They wanted to obtain the Ricoh freehold but were not prepared to pay what it was worth.
Sisu or wasps? Richardson is rumoured to have had his eye on the arena before and during the dispute. Why wait all that time other than to see the price lowered? But sisu distressed it deliberately you will say. Does it matter? Both hedge funds who had the same ambitions. Richardson is rumoured to have purchased wasps as a vehicle to buy the arena. Is that not just as underhand as sisu? See the point is no one agrees with how sisu went about things nor do they think there blameless. It's just you think wasps are good guys when they aint. There just as bad. So if you loathe one why not the other.
They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.
The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.
To an extent wasps fans had no idea what their owner was up to. Does that make it better? You call for sisu to be transparent whilst supporting a club with an owner who is anything but. Straight out the sisu school of transparency if you like. Oh and to top it off the deal wad done in secret so no wasps or ccfc fans knew until it was too late. So where was the regard for fans of wasps and ccfc shown by the wasps owner or the council? You know the council who claimed a club should not be moved?

 

[chiefdave]

I'm sure I read that in recent years at Adams Park, 80% of Wasps STH's were from the Wycombe area

Are you sure about that? They've been running coaches from London which would give the impression the fan base stuck with them in Wycombe. They only moved half an hour up the M40, not the other end of the country. They saved that for later.

 

[Calista]

Isn't this a rehash of a post you made two years ago?

I'm sure it will be similar, because it remains my take on this subject, although I didn't actually refer back to whatever I wrote before. If there was a prize for repetition on here, you’d be somewhere near the top of the Premier League.

Sorry if you recognised something from 2 years ago Day after bloody day, the stuff I disagree with gets trundled out ad nauseam, so I reckon I’m quite restrained.

 

[Grendel]

Are you sure about that? They've been running coaches from London which would give the impression the fan base stuck with them in Wycombe. They only moved half an hour up the M40, not the other end of the country. They saved that for later.

No - he thought he read it somewhere. Nick Eastwood probably told him over dinner

 

[SkyBlueZack]

So you disagree with franchising?

 

[italiahorse]

You tell me you went along with it ?

No, I'll entertain you again.
They wanted to obtain the Ricoh freehold but were not prepared to pay what it was worth.
Sisu or wasps? Richardson is rumoured to have had his eye on the arena before and during the dispute. Why wait all that time other than to see the price lowered? But sisu distressed it deliberately you will say. Does it matter? Both hedge funds who had the same ambitions. Richardson is rumoured to have purchased wasps as a vehicle to buy the arena. Is that not just as underhand as sisu? See the point is no one agrees with how sisu went about things nor do they think there blameless. It's just you think wasps are good guys when they aint. There just as bad. So if you loathe one why not the other.
They needed to do that to get back money they lost in CCFC due to their poor management and lack of due diligence.
The plan had no regards for fans who were placed in an unenviable position of having to support the team knowing what Sisu were up to.
To an extent wasps fans had no idea what their owner was up to. Does that make it better? You call for sisu to be transparent whilst supporting a club with an owner who is anything but. Straight out the sisu school of transparency if you like. Oh and to top it off the deal wad done in secret so no wasps or ccfc fans knew until it was too late. So where was the regard for fans of wasps and ccfc shown by the wasps owner or the council? You know the council who claimed a club should not be moved?

Never mentioned Wasps plans or the rights or wrongs just the Sisu plan.

I have no idea when the Wasps plan started or what the details were.

I do know though that you don't know either but I value your observations.

 

[Nick]

Never mentioned Wasps plans or the rights or wrongs just the Sisu plan.

I have no idea when the Wasps plan started or what the details were.

I do know though that you don't know either but I value your observations.

Surely, its been proven the Wasps plans started a good while ago. Maybe you just ignore that.

So how come nobody knows the Wasps plan but you know the SISU plan as fact?

 

[italiahorse]

Surely, its been proven the Wasps plans started a good while ago. Maybe you just ignore that.

So how come nobody knows the Wasps plan but you know the SISU plan as fact?

Where's the Wasps plan then?
I see the speculation on here but it's seems based on an informal discussion some time ago.

What do you think the Sisu plan was ?
Or are you scared to hazard a guess.?

 

[chiefdave]

I see the speculation on here but it's seems based on an informal discussion some time ago.

Its hardly speculation, they're here. You should know as you support them and go to the games.

What we do know is that before Richardson purchased Wasps he held talks with CRFC.

In a recent in an interview with Stuart Linnell on BBC Coventry & Warwickshire, Rossborough said that two years ago, he met Wasps owner Derek Richardson and discussed, very generally, how the two clubs might work together and the word “merger” was mentioned, albeit informally.

We also know that while they were still telling their own fans they would be moving back to London they were in talks with CSF about how to facilitate a move to Coventry

Paul Breed, chief executive of Coventry Sports Foundation (CSF), told the Telegraph the club had approached his organisation to discuss how they could establish Coventry as their home.

Mr Breed confirmed he has also held talks with the city council about the potential relocation of Wasps to Coventry.

Mr Breed dismissed suggestions the Alan Higgs Centre, in Allard Way, could act as a training base for Wasps should the move go through

He added: “There would be similarities to when Coventry City relocated to Northampton.

Even if there was nothing else those two things alone would indicate that Wasps plan, for a lot longer than they are prepared to admit to anyone, has been to move to Coventry.

What do you think the Sisu plan was ?
Or are you scared to hazard a guess.?

In my opinion you can break it down into three stages.

First was the Ranson era. I'm pretty sure SISU had minimal involvement then. They were sold an investment opportunity and financed Ransons plan on the promise of a healthy return. Of course as we all know Ranson had budgeted on higher crowds than he achieved. I suspect the point at which Dann and Fox were sold was when he went to SISU saying he had run out of cash and needed a top up and was told to sort it out himself.

Then we had the Orange Ken era. Ranson left, along with most of the board, as he knew his plan was not workable. My feeling is that SISU, not being football people, had no idea who to appoint. The only other football person they would have had any level of contact with was Dulieu as he was the one pushing for them to takeover Southampton. Someone, either Dulieu or SISU, came up with the plan to be self sustaining. As we all know that proved to be a disaster at championship level and ended up in relegation.

So we come to the current era. This is where I feel SISU have become more hands on. They identified ownership of the Ricoh as key. We all know what happened from there.

Now I think they are out of ideas on how to get any sort of return so I just sticking in a holding pattern while the club is self sustaining hoping for a miracle.

 

[italiahorse]

Its hardly speculation, they're here. You should know as you support them and go to the games.

What we do know is that before Richardson purchased Wasps he held talks with CRFC.



We also know that while they were still telling their own fans they would be moving back to London they were in talks with CSF about how to facilitate a move to Coventry



Even if there was nothing else those two things alone would indicate that Wasps plan, for a lot longer than they are prepared to admit to anyone, has been to move to Coventry.



In my opinion you can break it down into three stages.

First was the Ranson era. I'm pretty sure SISU had minimal involvement then. They were sold an investment opportunity and financed Ransons plan on the promise of a healthy return. Of course as we all know Ranson had budgeted on higher crowds than he achieved. I suspect the point at which Dann and Fox were sold was when he went to SISU saying he had run out of cash and needed a top up and was told to sort it out himself.

Then we had the Orange Ken era. Ranson left, along with most of the board, as he knew his plan was not workable. My feeling is that SISU, not being football people, had no idea who to appoint. The only other football person they would have had any level of contact with was Dulieu as he was the one pushing for them to takeover Southampton. Someone, either Dulieu or SISU, came up with the plan to be self sustaining. As we all know that proved to be a disaster at championship level and ended up in relegation.

So we come to the current era. This is where I feel SISU have become more hands on. They identified ownership of the Ricoh as key. We all know what happened from there.

Now I think they are out of ideas on how to get any sort of return so I just sticking in a holding pattern while the club is self sustaining hoping for a miracle.

You need to provide dates or it just appears you are piecing info together to suit an argument.

CRFC tried to buy A PL club so Coventry could be in the PL.
Do I need to mention dates ?

 

[Calista]

"you what? SISU giving free tickets away? Desperate, just trying to trick attendances, just trying to get locals there."
"you what? Wasps giving away free tickets? top marketing! how can I get one?"

Couldn’t give a monkeys about who gives out free tickets or why, and I have no idea why some people are obsessed with it. I doubt if I’ve ever posted anything about it.

 

[chiefdave]

You need to provide dates or it just appears you are piecing info together to suit an argument.

CRFC tried to buy A PL club so Coventry could be in the PL.
Do I need to mention dates ?

I love how you make sweeping vague statements backed with no evidence but then demand evidence of others. You then get presented with evidence and either ignore it or try and make out its not valid!

The talks with between Richardson and Rossborough about Wasps and CRFC working together were Oct 2012. Richardson didn't take over Wasps until April 2013.

The work Wasps did with CSF were 2014. They were described by the CT as secret talks and they took place while Wasps were still publicly stating to their fans they were planning to move back to London.

 

[chiefdave]

Couldn’t give a monkeys about who gives out free tickets or why, and I have no idea why some people are obsessed with it. I doubt if I’ve ever posted anything about it.

 

[italiahorse]

So CRFC didn't try and buy Bedford ?
You've made my point

 

[chiefdave]

So CRFC didn't try and buy Bedford ?
You've made my point

What have Bedford got to do with anything. You were asking about Wasps plan.

 

[Nick]

So CRFC didn't try and buy Bedford ?
You've made my point

What point is that? The one where you ask for evidence, get it and ignore out and just keep saying the same thing?

 

[Calista]

No - he thought he read it somewhere. Nick Eastwood probably told him over dinner

I like your style Grendel, I really do.

Anyway, here’s the link.

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s130.htm?129,14938011
'The biggest impact will be felt by the hospitality sector'
Wasps say they had to move when plans for a new stadium fell through
First published 12:00 Friday 10 October 2014 in Sport by Alan Feldberg
WASPS’ decision to leave High Wycombe will cost the South Bucks economy millions of pounds a year. On Wednesday the club announced they would move permanently to Coventry’s Ricoh Arena, playing their first match at their new stadium in December. Wasps, who have 2,800 season ticket holders, 80 per cent of whom are from the area, say the move was forced on them after annual losses at Adams Park of about £3m took the club to within an hour of going out of business in 2010.

If you read the full article, it kind of illustrates the complexities, with the planning application in Wycombe turned down etc. Councils up and down the country are trying every day to get economic advantages for their area, and I’m not in the least bit surprised that the deal was done with Wasps.

Guys, the irony here is that I don't even feel that strongly either way on this topic! I suppose once in a blue moon I just react badly to the knee-jerk “Council hypocrites” statements which get posted ad nauseam every day. In an ideal world Wasps would never have left London. In an ideal world, CCC might have said to Wasps “Sorry, we disagree with franchising. People in the Home Counties and London have threatened to take to the streets, and it has been raised in parliament. And besides, the owners of our local football club are willing to take on the debt, and have put forward proposals we really like”.

 

[Grendel]

I like your style Grendel, I really do.

Anyway, here’s the link.

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s130.htm?129,14938011
'The biggest impact will be felt by the hospitality sector'
Wasps say they had to move when plans for a new stadium fell through
First published 12:00 Friday 10 October 2014 in Sport by Alan Feldberg
WASPS’ decision to leave High Wycombe will cost the South Bucks economy millions of pounds a year. On Wednesday the club announced they would move permanently to Coventry’s Ricoh Arena, playing their first match at their new stadium in December. Wasps, who have 2,800 season ticket holders, 80 per cent of whom are from the area, say the move was forced on them after annual losses at Adams Park of about £3m took the club to within an hour of going out of business in 2010.

If you read the full article, it kind of illustrates the complexities, with the planning application in Wycombe turned down etc. Councils up and down the country are trying every day to get economic advantages for their area, and I’m not in the least bit surprised that the deal was done with Wasps.

Guys, the irony here is that I don't even feel that strongly either way on this topic! I suppose once in a blue moon I just react badly to the knee-jerk “Council hypocrites” statements which get posted ad nauseam every day. In an ideal world Wasps would never have left London. In an ideal world, CCC might have said to Wasps “Sorry, we disagree with franchising. People in the Home Counties and London have threatened to take to the streets, and it has been raised in parliament. And besides, the owners of our local football club are willing to take on the debt, and have put forward proposals we really like”.

Well it's all find and dandy but in one radio interview Eastwood actually claimed that the majority of season ticket holders would find it easier to get to the Ricoh in terms if travel time than Adams Park.

If 80% of ticket holders live in Wycombe how is that possible? Is it so congested traffic wise in Wycombe you can only go at one mile an hour?

 

[italiahorse]

What point is that? The one where you ask for evidence, get it and ignore out and just keep saying the same thing?

The point I'm making is people are making statements but missing dates off.

Richardson talked about the Ricoh before he bought Wasps. It was a conversation not a plan.

But hey big it up !!!

 

[italiahorse]

Well it's all find and dandy but in one radio interview Eastwood actually claimed that the majority of season ticket holders would find it easier to get to the Ricoh in terms if travel time than Adams Park.

If 80% of ticket holders live in Wycombe how is that possible? Is it so congested traffic wise in Wycombe you can only go at one mile an hour?

80%. ????
Prove it.

 

[chiefdave]

Richardson talked about the Ricoh before he bought Wasps.

But that shows that Richardson with thinking of moving Wasps to the city before he even purchased the club. The talks with Rossborough would have been around the same time he was in talks with Ross to buy Wasps and only a few weeks before he lent Wasps £1m. It very much goes to show that he had a long term plan for the club to move to Coventry.

 

[Nick]

The point I'm making is people are making statements but missing dates off.

Richardson talked about the Ricoh before he bought Wasps. It was a conversation not a plan.

But hey big it up !!!

You have the dates?

 

[Grendel]

80%. ????
Prove it.

Ask the wasps fan boy who made the claim to prove it you idiot

 

[Moff]

80%. ????
Prove it.

Perhaps you should be addressing that to Calista. He made the reference.

How is it if someone disgarees with you you ask for evidence/proof, but when someone doesnt you let it pass without judgement?

 

[italiahorse]

Ask the wasps fan boy who made the claim to prove it you idiot

You quoted it
I can't be bothered to read back your drivel with others.

 

[Moff]

You quoted it
I can't be bothered to read back your drivel with others.

I am sure Calista will be very happy you think his posts are drivel

 

[Calista]

I am sure Calista will be very happy you think his posts are drivel

Calista doesn’t really mind, he’s just a fake user created for Wasps PR purposes. The 53 years of loyal support for CCFC went out of the window when Wasps offered him top dollar

For what it’s worth, it looks to me like there are crossed wires here, and Italia thought Grendel was claiming that 80% are still from High Wycombe?

Anyway, I simply quoted (and linked) an article that said 80% of Wasps STH’s were from the Wycombe area before the Coventry move. It could be wrong, but it makes perfect sense to me, since after leaving London they spent well over a decade putting down unsustainable roots in a another town. Doesn’t stop people painting it as a simple black and white picture though, where Wasps can just move to anywhere in London with no harm done.

 

[Calista]

View attachment 5139

On the contrary, I get the point completely. That if you disagree with someone, you can take the piss out of them by quoting a mindless argument that they have never made.

 

[Calista]

Isn't this a rehash of a post you made two years ago?

It’s beginning to dawn on me that you have seriously, I mean seriously, devoted some of your precious time on this earth to somehow trawl back through my posts because you’ve got a little theory that I work for Wasps. It’s like McCarthyism on here, and by repeating your slur you’re planting it in other people’s minds too.


Why not step back and consider the simple possibility that as a CCFC fan I might not hate Wasps or blame them for our problems? That if the likes of Worcester RFC had upped sticks and come to Coventry, flying in the face of huge protests from their fans, I would have been dead against it? Indeed that I might have joined a stroll around town about it? That I find it hard to blame Coventry City Council, because dealing with SISU must be like nailing jelly to the wall? That when a major sports club came in with an offer which dealt with the debt and would raise the profile of the City, I think CCC only did what any other Council would do? And that all of these things are possible without being a hypocrite, a Council whore, a Wasps fanboy, or going to dinner with some bloke from Wasps you mentioned, but whose name escapes me?

 

[Moff]

Calista doesn’t really mind, he’s just a fake user created for Wasps PR purposes. The 53 years of loyal support for CCFC went out of the window when Wasps offered him top dollar

For what it’s worth, it looks to me like there are crossed wires here, and Italia thought Grendel was claiming that 80% are still from High Wycombe?

Anyway, I simply quoted (and linked) an article that said 80% of Wasps STH’s were from the Wycombe area before the Coventry move. It could be wrong, but it makes perfect sense to me, since after leaving London they spent well over a decade putting down unsustainable roots in a another town. Doesn’t stop people painting it as a simple black and white picture though, where Wasps can just move to anywhere in London with no harm done.

Apologies Calista, as you know I was just playing devils advocate with Italia.

Re the percentage issue, I am keeping out of that one, as I know its already caused some debate and i think I am best out of it

We have a lot of CCFC supporting years between us, lets hope in the not too distant future we can turn the corner and actually be rewarded for our support.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Dealing with sisu? Manhattan group walked away from a ccfc takeover stating the council were unworkable. There as bad as each other.