Ricoh events and Wasps ticket outlet (3 Viewers)

[martcov]

Dealing with sisu? Manhattan group walked away from a ccfc takeover stating the council were unworkable. There as bad as each other.

Obviously not. Manhattan had it sussed and walked. SISU thought they had it sussed and we know the rest.

 

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[SkyBlueZack]

Obviously not what?

 

[italiahorse]

Dealing with sisu? Manhattan group walked away from a ccfc takeover stating the council were unworkable. There as bad as each other.

Do you know why the council were unworkable?
Was it anything to do with a derisory offer for the Ricoh freehold ? (Speculation by the way before being quoted )
Again we need the facts before we assume the position.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Not seen that reported or mentioned before. One offer was knocked back as the buyer wanted land to develop. Surely as a council that would be welcome? The arena after all was part of a regeneration project. Development usually means new jobs. Of course if the offer was acceptable. Problem is there seems to be a lot of evidence the council were unwilling to relinquish control of the stadium particularly to the football club.
Have any idea what the derisory offer for the freehold was?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Another thing. You are assuming your position on speculation yet there is a quote from Manhattan stating they were unworkable. Now if Manhattan were telling porkies why did the council not challenge this? As we are aware there quite good at pr. You ask for facts before assuming a position yet want the court case dropped? Which is one way of finding facts out? Is that not contradictory?

 

[italiahorse]

Not seen that reported or mentioned before. One offer was knocked back as the buyer wanted land to develop. Surely as a council that would be welcome? The arena after all was part of a regeneration project. Development usually means new jobs. Of course if the offer was acceptable. Problem is there seems to be a lot of evidence the council were unwilling to relinquish control of the stadium particularly to the football club.
Have any idea what the derisory offer for the freehold was?

I think you have made my point.
You got something that is undocumented/unknown/speculated and then assumed the council were wrong and used it to make a case against the council.

We keep going round in circles and nothing moves on.

'SISU what's the plan ?'

 

[Nick]

I think you have made my point.
You got something that is undocumented/unknown/speculated and then assumed the council were wrong and used it to make a case against the council.

We keep going round in circles and nothing moves on.

'SISU what's the plan ?'

Nobody is making your point are they?

You are proving everybody elses point by just ignoring everything and then making your own stuff up and repeating it or you throw something unrelated in.

 

[italiahorse]

Another thing. You are assuming your position on speculation yet there is a quote from Manhattan stating they were unworkable. Now if Manhattan were telling porkies why did the council not challenge this? As we are aware there quite good at pr. You ask for facts before assuming a position yet want the court case dropped? Which is one way of finding facts out? Is that not contradictory?

If the offer was not made public then there is no need to make a public statement.
Don't forget you can make a fFOI request to obtain that information.
I'm assuming they made an offer and the council said no.
Happens every day !!

 

[Calista]

Apologies Calista, as you know I was just playing devils advocate with Italia.

Re the percentage issue, I am keeping out of that one, as I know its already caused some debate and i think I am best out of it

We have a lot of CCFC supporting years between us, lets hope in the not too distant future we can turn the corner and actually be rewarded for our support.

Cheers Moff

I did realise that your post wasn't directed at me, and nor was mine aimed at you. It was more of a desperate cry in the wind, after an unpopular statement became even more unpopular when shown to be true.

Totally agree about needing to turn a corner. There hasn’t really been a City team in the last quarter of a century that did us proud, other than for a few short purple patches. What I would give for a reason to celebrate an achievement on the field, before I get too senile to care

 

[Grendel]

I think you have made my point.
You got something that is undocumented/unknown/speculated and then assumed the council were wrong and used it to make a case against the council.

We keep going round in circles and nothing moves on.

'SISU what's the plan ?'

The council rejected 2 companies one of which wanted to regenerate land as part of a deal - there offer for the stadium was more than they ended up with.

Sisu were lauded as the only bidder the council were interested in as they never wanted the club to own the ground.

Remember according to PWKH on this forum Tim Fisher was the best chairman he has ever dealt with at the club. His words not mine.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The comment was reported. Not entirely speculation. Your derisory offer theory has only just surfaced via your mouth. If the comment was incorrect. Why was it not challenged? After all it could be seen as a derogatory remark. Other businesses would have seen it and it does not look good. Again what was the derisory offer? How much?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The offer was part of the local football club being taken over so it was in the public domain. Just not the amount on offer. You seem to have an idea. So again how much was it?

 

[Moff]

Do you know why the council were unworkable?
Was it anything to do with a derisory offer for the Ricoh freehold ? (Speculation by the way before being quoted )
Again we need the facts before we assume the position.

You said it yourself we need facts.....so why bother posting supposition based on nothing to try to prove your point. :facepalm:

 

[Moff]

The council rejected 2 companies one of which wanted to regenerate land as part of a deal - there offer for the stadium was more than they ended up with.

Sisu were lauded as the only bidder the council were interested in as they never wanted the club to own the ground.

I certainly recall that the baove was the case, and as I have mentioned before in long gone posts, SISU were the COUNCILS preferred bidder, as they rejected everyone else.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

They were italias favourite hedge fund too at one point ;-). Moonstone has his heart now ;-)

 

[skybluetony176]

I thought Manhattan pulled out due to finances? Seem to remember the exchange rate from dollars to pounds (or vice versa) being something to do with it.

Of course if someone else has a link to something completely different I'm happy to be proved wrong. Only going by memory and it was the best part of ten years ago.

 

[italiahorse]

The council rejected 2 companies one of which wanted to regenerate land as part of a deal - there offer foru the stadium was more than they ended up with.

Sisu were lauded as the only bidder the council were interested in as they never wanted the club to own the ground.

Remember according to PWKH on this forum Tim Fisher was the best chairman he has ever dealt with at the club. His words not mine.

Documents and dates ?
Otherwise that means nothing !!

 

[chiefdave]

Do you know why the council were unworkable?
Was it anything to do with a derisory offer for the Ricoh freehold?

You may not know the ins and outs of all talks the council have had but you have to look at the bigger picture. Several groups have spoken with the council about purchasing the Ricoh with a view to uniting the club and stadium. Every time the interest has ended after speaking with the council. Even the supposed saviour Preston Haskell was reported in the CT to have had a meeting at the council house and promptly disappeared back to the US never to be heard from again. You also have the public and private comments made by the council about never selling to the club.

When you talk about a derisory offer what figure are you referring to as derisory. Seem to recall at the time the asking price was £41m to buy a company that was struggling to break even, even more so if we were to take ownership and stop paying £1.2m a year, and with a large debt to Yorkshire Bank. Or are you referring to the less than £6m Wasps paid?

One offer was knocked back as the buyer wanted land to develop.

Looking back now its crazy. There was a decent amount of interest yet we ended up with the councils preferred owners in SISU. Hard to believe any of the other options could have turned out worse.

Three more consortiums have shown an interest in buying Coventry City. The Manhattan Group is believed still to be interested along with another American consortium and two UK based consortiums.

I think its the other American consortium you're referring to. Forget their name but Mutton blasted them in a public statement as they wanted to develop land around the Ricoh. Said that the Ricoh and football club wasn't to be viewed as a development opportunity. He then had a pop at Manhattan Group because their proposal didn't include any development! Their bid seemed the best from what details we had. They promised big money for the manager, Dowie at the time, and ownership of the stadium. They had a bid accepted by the club and a heads of agreement but it all fell apart after they met the council.

Coventry have moved a step closer to a takeover after confirming that an American consortium are in advanced talks to buy the club.

The Manhattan Sports Capital Partners are the bid vehicle for American investors Sean McDevitt and Philip Harris who, along with US-based English investment advisor Roger Marment, have already agreed a deal to buy the Coca-Cola Championship club and take on their estimated debts of £28million.

Talks are being spearheaded by US-based business consultant Gary Hopkins who is a lifelong Sky Blues fan and has been putting the consortium together over the last five months.

A club statement said: “The chairman and board of Coventry City Football Club confirm that non-binding heads of agreement have been signed with Manhattan Capital Sports Partners, a US group led by Gary Hopkins.

“Meanwhile, we have made it clear to the Manhattan group that any new arrangements for the club must involve substantial investment in improving and strengthening the squad to achieve the club’s Premiership ambitions.”

All I know is that the Manhattan Group hastily jumped on a plane and went home

 

[italiahorse]

The offer was part of the local football club being taken over so it was in the public domain. Just not the amount on offer. You seem to have an idea. So again how much was it?

Nobody knows
That's my point.
You can't say there were other offers to prove your case when you have no idea what they were. Pure guesswork and speculation does not count, surely?

 

[chiefdave]

Documents and dates ?
Otherwise that means nothing !!

Do you know why the council were unworkable?
Was it anything to do with a derisory offer for the Ricoh freehold ?

 

[Nick]

Pure guesswork and speculation does not count, surely?

But that is what 99% of your posts and replies are?

 

[skybluetony176]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/coventry_city/7033426.stm

Only story I can find online regarding Manhattan pulling out sights interest rates and exchange rates. Interest rates is interesting, isn't this about the same time the credit crunch hit due to toxic debt in the US? Maybe they just couldn't finance the deal and it's as simple as that?

Like I said earlier if someone has a link that proves otherwise I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

 

[chiefdave]

Fletcher and Robinson have both done interviews in the CT where they have both stated that Manhattan pulled out after meeting with the council.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fletcher and Robinson have both done interviews in the CT where they have both stated that Manhattan pulled out after meeting with the council.

Do you have a link to the full interview Dave? I'd be interested in reading it/them.

 

[Grendel]

Do you have a link to the full interview Dave? I'd be interested in reading it/them.

If you are that interested why don't you look yourself?

 

[Grendel]

Can someone remember the name of the other group trying to buy the club? The one who wanted to regenerate the land?

 

[chiefdave]

Do you have a link to the full interview Dave? I'd be interested in reading it/them.

Fletcher has mentioned in numerous times, found a few references to it in the CT

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/paul-fletcher-exclusive-iain-dowie-3083185
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/fletcher-why-i-quit-3105888
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/save-the-sky-blues-3110730

Robinson talked about it in an interview with Bob Brolly on CWR, doubt you'll be able to track that down.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/robinson-quits-as-city-chairman-3106030
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/sisu-turned-coventry-city-disaster-3043242

 

[chiefdave]

Can someone remember the name of the other group trying to buy the club? The one who wanted to regenerate the land?

Can't remember the name of the one you are referring to. There were others apart from them and Manhattan. One called Windsor possibly and there was a couple of guys from Texas who flew over wanting to take the lot over, found out they wouldn't be able to get the Ricoh off the council and disappeared back to the states.

 

[Nick]

http://www.localgov.co.uk/Club-urges-council-to-back-US-takeover-bid/29948

The council has hit back saying it fully supports efforts to save the football club but warned it was under no obligation – or pressure from local people – to sell its share in the arena.

One here:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/paul-fletcher-exclusive-iain-dowie-3083185

Fletcher walked away from the Sky Blues in October 2007 after reaching his wits’ end trying to bring about a buy-out of the club by American consortium Manhattan Sports Capital, which failed, ultimately, because of differences of opinion with the city council about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena.

A cached but deleted report in Google says:

UTTED Sky Blues former managing director Paul Fletcher has admitted the Coventry City's Operation Premiership project has come off the rails in the wake of resignation.
Fletcher, who was in the middle of spearheading a takeover deal for the club, said he felt like he had had his heart broken as he handed his resignation in today after it was revealed potential American buyers Manhattan Sports Capital flew in to discuss a deal this week but left almost straight away without even meeting him.


Fletcher says their reason for leaving so quickly was that Coventry City Council and the Higgs charity frightened them out of a deal with the price they were asking for their share of the Ricoh Arena.


The new stadium has been a consistent stumbling block for any takeover deal, which has appeared increasingly vital to the club's financial future since it was revealed it is losing around £90,000 a week minimum by not being able to take most of the profits the ground makes.


The council and the Higgs trust own the shares to the ground and have so far shown they are not willing to sell to any investors unless the price is right to benefit the city as a whole, while investors are only interesting in buying the club if the Ricoh comes with it.


But Fletcher admitted any takeover now looks extremely unlikely in the current climate despite 'four or five potential investors' coming forward to express an interest.
Fletcher, speaking to the Coventry Observer, said: "I've always been open and told the fans the truth and this has really broken my heart. The truth is as far as the takeover is concerned we are no nearer or further than we were six or seven months ago.


"The Manhattan Group came this week but I never got a chance to meet them. It was then I decided to resign.


"They came over and then just jumped back on the plane home and the reason for that is the Higgs charity could not come to an agreement over the price for their shareholding. It is up to the council and the Higgs charity to represent themselves.


"But I have looked over five, six, seven stadium projects and have never come across a project where the council have been wanting to take cash out of the deal. We know where the bank stands but the council and the Higgs charity seem to want a return but it appears their requests seem to be frightening.'


Managing director at the club for the last 18 months Fletcher, who has been awarded an MBE following his previous work on the Wembley and Reebok Stadium projects, stressed though he was not blaming the council or the Higgs charity for the breakdown in takeover talks.

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/fletcher_quit_shock_356831/index.shtml

Strangely, nothing on the telegraph about it....

 

[Nick]

Another one:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Rolle...lub's+bosses+and+the+fans;+SKY...-a0171841765

July 18: Paul Fletcher flies to New York to meet with the Manhattan team. Claims deal is still progressing.

July 31: Paul Fletcher admits deal with Manhattan is hanging in the balance and calls on Coventry City Council to save the floundering takeover. He believes they are asking too much for their share of the Ricoh.

August 1: Council hits back at claims it is holding up the bid and says it has received no offers from Manhattan. The Alan Edward Higgs Charity claims the same, and says it has not heard from Manhattan since March.

September 3: Reports appear claiming there are now four bids on the table, one from Manhattan, one from another American company and two from UK investors.

October 1: Sheldon Yellen, owner of a company called Belfer and the man putting up the Manhattan money, flies over for talks at the Ricoh.

October 5: Paul Fletcher quits as MD, claiming all bids have fallen through. Debts are now said to be at pounds 38 million.

October 6: Coventry City Council leader Ken Taylor reveals that two other "derisory" bids have been received, one from Sisu for pounds 15 million and one from Shapiro for pounds 26 million.

October 8: Manhattan confirms it has pulled out.

October 10: Geoffrey Robinson resigns as chairman of the club. He is replaced by Joe Elliott.

October 23: The Football League bans the club from taking on any new players because of the failure to meet payments for an earlier signing.

October 31: Ex-footballer Ray Ranson and Geoffrey Robinson table rival takeover bids.

November 23: Robinson's bid appears to be out of the running, with no further meetings planned.

shapiro and belfer were other names!

 

[Nick]

Found this one on the telegraph:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sky-blues-face-bleak-future-3105889

City council leader Ken Taylor revealed that two other "derisory" bids had been received from two other firms.One, called Sisu, had offered #15million.
The other was from a firm called Shapiro, which offered #26million but wanted the club to pay off its debts and the city council to give it a longer lease on the Ricoh Arena and some spare land to the north of the site.
Mr McGuigan said that deal would have cost the council #4million of taxpayers' money and left the Alan Edward Higgs charity #2.5million out of pocket.
He added: "Even if the bank and Geoffrey [Robinson] accepted they were not going to get a penny back of all the debt [owed to them], and someone bought the club for #1, they'd still have to have lots of money to be able to turn the club around over the next two years."

 

[chiefdave]

shapiro and belfer were other names!

Shapiro were the ones who wanted to develop around the Ricoh.

 

[skybluetony176]

If you are that interested why don't you look yourself?

Because as I said earlier I've looked and can't find anything other than them pulling out because of interest rates and exchange rates if that's ok with the link police. Can you not find a link to it either?

 

[skybluetony176]

Fletcher has mentioned in numerous times, found a few references to it in the CT

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/paul-fletcher-exclusive-iain-dowie-3083185
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/fletcher-why-i-quit-3105888
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/save-the-sky-blues-3110730

Robinson talked about it in an interview with Bob Brolly on CWR, doubt you'll be able to track that down.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/robinson-quits-as-city-chairman-3106030
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ws/sisu-turned-coventry-city-disaster-3043242

Thanks Dave. I'll have a read when I get ten minutes spare.

 

[Nick]

Didn't notice Dave beat me to them further up! Thought I was google king as well.