Nick
Administrator
That's ok then. Go council
Ricoh (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter higgs
- Start date
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
SISU beat you too it the complaint is in.
Do you think SISU have a chance of winning in the EU or do you think its another delaying tactic knowing Wasps financial state and hoping they go bust in the time it takes for investigation. Genuine question.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Joy did not pull the plug:
https://www.ccfc.co.uk/contentasset...kh-email-18-aug-2012-highlighted_redacted.pdf
“I believe that speed is of the essence. CCC are not going to be able to keep their negotiations with Sisu running indefinitely, which currently is the only way we have to create sufficient time for us to work out the approach to the YB and for CCC to have the deal taken through the various steps needed within a local authority.”
twistandshout
Well-Known Member
It appears that Sisu approach of its business, nothing personal. Was taken personally.
They have been aggressive historically and the other parties simply do not like them.
They have been aggressive historically and the other parties simply do not like them.
Nick
Administrator
The eu action isn't sisu, it's the EU doing it if they think it needs to be done.
twistandshout
Well-Known Member
Sisu do not win anything, the Council may be found guilty and Wasps have to pay more.
If that happens Sisu then could sue again and may win
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
They can all go as far as i'm concerned.
I can't see anyway out of it while SISU remain in charge. Its not like its Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem etc council are against them its all party's so its not going to change with the next council election. SISU aren't going to leave until the legals have finished. We are in limbo just bobbing along. On the pitch we are in touching distance of the Championship, but i'm not sure SISU even want us there. Fishface said last time the business model didn't work in the championship or words to that effect. We are fucked.
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
If the Council are found guilty it is a win for SISU because it gives them that exact option to sue again. The question still remains do you think the EU will find anything wrong or is it just a delaying tactic?
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
Nick do you think the EU will find any wrong doing?
Nick
Administrator
No idea, if they find grounds to investigate then it will be the EU Vs ccc.
Certainly they got it on the cheap as the lease extension was ridiculous. Anyone who has ever extended a lease on a property that is not freehold will tell you the landlord has you over a barrel and in most cases will have your eyes out.
The most disturbing factor is how the same offer wasn’t put to SISU or the package just put on the open market where a company could have bought the stadium and had CCFC, wasps or anybody else as tenants and generally used the venue as they see fit. Of course in this scenario wasps would never have moved as it’s nowhere near as good a deal for them. The reason the council did everything behind closed doors could be explained as spite due to their previous issues with SISU (unprofessional but understandable). That is until the document release showed they’d been in communication with wasps beforehand.
Something extremely underhand has gone on here and, personally, I find it inconceivable that members of the council haven’t acted illegally. The fact there has been PR coordination, the consortium pops up at just the right moments and local media conveniently miss important bits of information back this up.
I would think SISU know or suspect this but the only way they can start a legal process is via a state aid case.
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The most disturbing factor is how the same offer wasn’t put to SISU or the package just put on the open market where a company could have bought the stadium and had CCFC, wasps or anybody else as tenants and generally used the venue as they see fit. Of course in this scenario wasps would never have moved as it’s nowhere near as good a deal for them. The reason the council did everything behind closed doors could be explained as spite due to their previous issues with SISU (unprofessional but understandable). That is until the document release showed they’d been in communication with wasps beforehand.
Something extremely underhand has gone on here and, personally, I find it inconceivable that members of the council haven’t acted illegally. The fact there has been PR coordination, the consortium pops up at just the right moments and local media conveniently miss important bits of information back this up.
I would think SISU know or suspect this but the only way they can start a legal process is via a state aid case.
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Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I know this is true but can you for my sake point me to a link to the pdf that confirms this?
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Nick
Administrator
Why don't you try to understand the basics?
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
It’s about 15 posts up.
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate SISU, Wasps and CCC equally, but don't think what you said is illegal.
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As they say, to understand someone’s actions understand their motivations. What would motivate the council to put the cities football club in this situation and go behind their backs to bring in a rugby club from outside of the city? It is beyond reckless.
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skyblue025
Well-Known Member
From what i understand from that there is no mention of the Higgs deal? Its talking about the debt to YB and how to restructure it.
It also says
"CCC is prepared to accept the Sisu offer of £5.5m as the value which they would have to meet should they exercise their right of preemption."
Nick
Administrator
Is there much point in trying to explain to you if you don't want to be told?
They wanted to delay talks about the higgs share while they sorted the debt with yb.
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day Coventry CIty are being used as a pawn by SISU, Council and Wasps. Its the club that's getting fucked over and the fans suffering.
Yes i get that but they also said they would agree the 5.5mil SISU offer.
I'm open to be proved wrong if you can explain it too me differently.
Yes i get that but they also said they would agree the 5.5mil SISU offer.
I'm open to be proved wrong if you can explain it too me differently.
Nick
Administrator
Because you have no interest in them.
Nick
Administrator
They weren't agreeing to it, they were dragging it out while they worked out a story to give the bank.
You don’t know yourself do you, explain how the EU could pursue any claim if the UK are no longer members
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
Yes i agree they were dragging it out but it also states "CCC is prepared to accept the Sisu offer of £5.5m as the value which they would have to meet should they exercise their right of preemption."
There is a lot of "if, maybe, might and doubt" in the email which people can read one way or the other. Not much evidence as too what has or will happen.
skyblue025
Well-Known Member
I agree with a lot of that but its been through the courts on 4 or 5 times for different reason in JR1, JR2 + appeals and still nothing has been found to be illegal. It's underhand certainly but keep being thrown out of court. I cant see the EU having a different opinion and just see it as a delaying tactic.
If there is nothing to hide - why wont the questions be answered?
I said "This did not preclude them for putting the stadium out to the general market with an option to have an extended lease."
Did not mention SISU
Sure and I may be wrong but the courts were looking at the specific point of law regarding state aid. What I mean is something else has gone on which may be uncovered in the process of looking into the state aid. For example, the court process did uncover things SISU didn’t know like the emails released in the document dump.
The reason I think something else has gone on is that otherwise I just don’t understand the actions of the council.
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Ok I'll bite ,when city moved out there was not enough income to cover the debt/loan ,city got wind of wasps buying the stadium and came back council had already done the deal with had the situation was then ,not what is easier could become
This is top post can we all stop attacking each other because we all know the blame lies with wasps CCC and sisu ,the percentages of who's more to blame are that small it's irrevelent just because someone coments on something doesn't make them a Sisu or council stooge ,save the anger for the above 3
Pete in Portugal
Well-Known Member
It's irrelevant because the UK was in the EU at the time of the CCC sale to Wasps.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Care to explain how it went from £5.5m for 50% to c.£6.5m for 100%?
The quote I initially highlighted says about CCC not being able to keep talks going on indefinitely, and speed being of the essence to enact their intentions.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="wince, post: 1764293, ,city got wind of wasps buying the stadium and came back council had already done the deal[/QUOTE]
Had city got wind of wasps buying the stadium? City were enticed back with false statements that a route to Ricoh ownership was still available. But as you point out, the deal with wasps was already agreed, almost certainly on the basis that ccc would get ccfc back as tenants (under false pretences). That made the deal even better for wasps and completed the joint shafting of our club.
Had city got wind of wasps buying the stadium? City were enticed back with false statements that a route to Ricoh ownership was still available. But as you point out, the deal with wasps was already agreed, almost certainly on the basis that ccc would get ccfc back as tenants (under false pretences). That made the deal even better for wasps and completed the joint shafting of our club.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The council were speaking with Wasps and trying to move them to the Ricoh before there was even a dispute with SISU let alone the club moving out.
pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
The debt was ACLs debt. £14m to be precise, owed to Yorkshire bank. For the 50% share in ACL owned by CCC, w**ps paid that debt off! So they didn't buy debt, the bought the stadium for the price of the debt.
In terms of SISU "getting wind" of the stadium sold, that's why they came back. They came back because they'd come to a reasonable rent agreement to come back. Only 3 days after the Gillingham game, the council were talking about building bridges and CCFC maybe owning part of the ricoh
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The case will be dealt with in line with what was in place at the time. That will be a condition of any deal.
In theory if we leave with no deal the UK could just choose to ignore any action but in practice at some point we will need to agree a trade deal so even a no deal Brexit won't stop the EC investigation should they decide one is required.