Robins and King (1 Viewer)

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Well the method itself has been successful and is generally the method used by teams we’re wishing to emulate.

I’d argue the players we have in are talented players, @Saddlebrains suggests above that the training is much higher quality, Robins himself has mentioned multiple times that he needed more behind the scenes and it’s being provided to him.

his remit is to get the team playing as a cohesive unit, and as I’ve said before I feel that Robins strength is getting limited players to fight for each other, almost creating a siege mentality.

I’ve said this before - how many permanent players since league two have bettered their careers since leaving us? There’s about 5/6, 2 of them were two of the most talented players we’ve ever had in Hamer and Gyokeres

Since we sold Gyokeres and Hamer, the calibre of player we have recruited has improved and it’s up to Robins to adapt his management style to suit the better players.

Yeah sorry still not convincing me it’s not being done “because that’s what everyone’s doing” rather than for actual considered reasons. I’ve seen companies with a windfall do this sort of hiring all the time to “move them to the next level” and “because that’s what the best do”. But it’s cart before horse. The best got there organically over time because that’s what they needed or mostly because they have cash burning a hole in their pocket so fuck it.

Every Google team has a resident artist. I can hear my bosses laughter already if I suggested we get one in for that reason.

What makes those teams successful is a cohesive back room. Not just headcount.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

AFCCOVENTRY said:
pre-Madonna syndrome

Amazing

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Yeah sorry still not convincing me it’s not being done “because that’s what everyone’s doing” rather than for actual considered reasons. I’ve seen companies with a windfall do this sort of hiring all the time to “move them to the next level” and “because that’s what the best do”. But it’s cart before horse. The best got there organically over time because that’s what they needed or mostly because they have cash burning a hole in their pocket so fuck it.

Every Google team has a resident artist. I can hear my bosses laughter already if I suggested we get one in for that reason.

What makes those teams successful is a cohesive back room. Not just headcount.

Decision making is part plan part situational.

Our plan is to put in place the support structures modern football clubs have in place to enable us to compete.

Our situation was that Lawrence left and Adi left for undisclosed non football reasons.

Seems like the right time to make the decision to evolve the structure to me …..

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Yeah sorry still not convincing me it’s not being done “because that’s what everyone’s doing” rather than for actual considered reasons. I’ve seen companies with a windfall do this sort of hiring all the time to “move them to the next level” and “because that’s what the best do”. But it’s cart before horse. The best got there organically over time because that’s what they needed or mostly because they have cash burning a hole in their pocket so fuck it.

Every Google team has a resident artist. I can hear my bosses laughter already if I suggested we get one in for that reason.

What makes those teams successful is a cohesive back room. Not just headcount.

I’d agree - my one criticism maybe that it’s been done too quick. I still expect more to be brought in.

It’s more than likely what’s been holding us back in the transfer market aswell, players want to develop.they want more tailored and individual programs which again is now the norm at elite level.

Mucca Mad Boys · Sep 23, 2024

Saddlebrains said:
He's not going to come out and say he didn't want loads of coaches and is fucked off we are piss thin in midfield is he?

He did say that about the midfield last season, numerous times and particularly raised it against quality opposition.

Going into the season, the squad felt incomplete and nothing changed as the window closed. Defensively, and in midfield we look weak.

I feel like we’ve allowed expectations to get OTT. This summer we’ve only strengthened in wide areas and with strikers. The midfield and defence hasn’t changed and with that, the issues carrying over from last season.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

Deity said:
Decision making is part plan part situational.

Our plan is to put in place the support structures modern football clubs have in place to enable us to compete.

That’s not a plan. Or if it is it’s like planning to be rich by buying a mansion and a Bentley cos that’s what rich people have.

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
That’s not a plan. Or if it is it’s like planning to be rich by buying a mansion and a Bentley cos that’s what rich people have.

Of course it’s a plan.

That analogy is not correct.

Your examples are things rich people do with the money they have once successful.

My example is the things people do to build a business into one that increases their chances of making them successful.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

Deity said:
Of course it’s a plan.

That analogy is not correct.

Your examples are things rich people do with the money they have once successful.

My example is the things people do to build a business into one that increases their chances of making them successful.

Do they? Where’s the evidence for this? What said that was the problem we were having in our organisation?

You’re just looking at big teams and going “that’s what success looks like”, I’ve not had a single justification for why we needed this change other than “it’s modern” and “it’s what other big clubs do”. Which isn’t a justification at all.

All of Coventry City’s recent success has been built on being a well drilled close knit squad. I’m struggling to see the thought process that ripping out all experience and hiring as many people to wear ugly Birmingham City tracksuits as possible was what we needed.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Do they? Where’s the evidence for this? What said that was the problem we were having in our organisation?

You’re just looking at big teams and going “that’s what success looks like”, I’ve not had a single justification for why we needed this change other than “it’s modern” and “it’s what other big clubs do”. Which isn’t a justification at all.

All of Coventry City’s recent success has been built on being a well drilled close knit squad. I’m struggling to see the thought process that ripping out all experience and hiring as many people to wear ugly Birmingham City tracksuits as possible was what we needed.

At some point you’re going to hit a ceiling. Once you get some resource you’ve got to look at spending it cleverly.

we can’t compete with Leeds Burnley etc, so we have to look at new markets. The recruitment team is increased - Robins can’t be watching 1000s of videos of random Dutch kids we’ve found in the eredivisie.

These players we sign are clearly talented, but they’ve got weaknesses. These are identified by analysts. Coaching standards will have to be increased and individualised becuase what improves Bassette won’t necessarily improve Haji Wright.

then you’ve got to extract an extra 10% out of these players - hence your nutritionists who will tailor each menu to each player and even your sleep coaches. It’s all about getting ahead of the curve and trying to get more out of players than the other teams.

Vivaesh was a disciplinarian by the sounds of it, but after so long these mercurial talents we’re signing from all over aren’t going to respond to this. Robins stated he agreed with letting Vivaesh go - he’s probably noticed this

Calista · Sep 23, 2024

Deity said:
It’s fine margins guys…..

We have created more than enough chances to have killed teams off and had many more points. We just haven’t taken them. We could easily have another 4 points by now and the start looks much brighter.

Yes we were woeful on Saturday for 30 mins but I honestly believe had Bassette or Rudi scored when we hit the bar and we go in at 2-2 that we go on to win the match ….

Then we would have had a good perf at Watford, very good against Spurs, and a great comeback …. We would be talking about having turned a corner today, the spirit in the camp etc etc

Fine margins …..

Couldn't agree more. But you need to realise that there are no fine margins on here. The team is either full of world beaters or League 1 cloggers, depending on the most recent result.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
At some point you’re going to hit a ceiling. Once you get some resource you’ve got to look at spending it cleverly.

we can’t compete with Leeds Burnley etc, so we have to look at new markets. The recruitment team is increased - Robins can’t be watching 1000s of videos of random Dutch kids we’ve found in the eredivisie.

These players we sign are clearly talented, but they’ve got weaknesses. These are identified by analysts. Coaching standards will have to be increased and individualised becuase what improves Bassette won’t necessarily improve Haji Wright.

then you’ve got to extract an extra 10% out of these players - hence your nutritionists who will tailor each menu to each player and even your sleep coaches. It’s all about getting ahead of the curve and trying to get more out of players than the other teams.

Vivaesh was a disciplinarian by the sounds of it, but after so long these mercurial talents we’re signing from all over aren’t going to respond to this. Robins stated he agreed with letting Vivaesh go - he’s probably noticed this

So why are we worse than ever?

Calista · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
So why are we worse than ever?

We're not.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

Calista said:
We're not.

We are.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Sep 23, 2024

Lack of central midfield and Robins not knowing his best team don’t help.

Calista · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
We are.

You're seriously saying we're 'worse than ever'? It's becoming surreal on here.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

Calista said:
You're seriously saying we're 'worse than ever'? It's becoming surreal on here.

Yes. I’ve not seen a Robins side this devoid of motivation or ideas or organisation.

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Do they? Where’s the evidence for this? What said that was the problem we were having in our organisation?

You’re just looking at big teams and going “that’s what success looks like”, I’ve not had a single justification for why we needed this change other than “it’s modern” and “it’s what other big clubs do”. Which isn’t a justification at all.

All of Coventry City’s recent success has been built on being a well drilled close knit squad. I’m struggling to see the thought process that ripping out all experience and hiring as many people to wear ugly Birmingham City tracksuits as possible was what we needed.

Think about it differently.

Having larger teams of specialist positions is now common place amongst elite football clubs all over the globe.

Having larger teams of specialist coaches is also common place amongst elite teams across many sports across many continents.

why ? Is it group think or because it’s proven to work ? Clearly the latter.

Elite sport is about marginal gains.

With that context in mind why would it not be the right thing for Coventry to put in similar structures ?

Brylowes · Sep 23, 2024

Saddlebrains said:
Honestly couldn't say. There is definitely a squad disconnect that wasn't there before. Splinter groups so to speak of players. Some players don't spend any time with others outside of training and match days. Which is their perogative I suppose but doesn't exactly help team bonding

Some of the points you make may stack up, but definitely not this one, when you bring any group of people together in a working environment personalities will differ, some will naturally gravitate towards each other & form friendships that can last a lifetime whereas you’ll have others who wouldn’t give one another the time of day.

This will always happen with any group of people in any working environment, It comes down to management to get that mixed bag of personalities all pulling in the same direction.
They don’t have to be mates outside of work.

rockwoodfleet · Sep 23, 2024

Saddlebrains said:
No it doesn't. It shows that media soundbites regarding your boss aren't ever going to be negative are they?

How many managers across the 92 speak against owners in interviews? Il tell you. None of them. Because they are the people employing you

Would you plaster all over LinkedIn that you disagree with your boss and they've done things to piss you off? No you wouldn't

Same thing

Yawn...... no agenda at all from you eh Saddle? You just say it as you see it blah blah blah....

Robins quote straight from his mouth but of course you know better.

shmmeee · Sep 23, 2024

Deity said:
Think about it differently.

Having larger teams of specialist positions is now common place amongst elite football clubs all over the globe.

Having larger teams of specialist coaches is also common place amongst elite teams across many sports across many continents.

why ? Is it group think or because it’s proven to work ? Clearly the latter.

Elite sport is about marginal gains.

With that context in mind why would it not be the right thing for Coventry to put in similar structures ?

Because we aren’t an elite team with money to burn and massive egos to massage. Every major tech company has on staff chefs and massage pods. Because they have to attract the best talent that has options of other elite companies. That doesn’t mean any old slop house should hire a chef and a masseuse. It’s ignoring the fundamentals and hoping instead a few 1% increases will make up the difference.

As I said it’s real management consultancy thinking. Not looking at our situation and how to improve it, just writing down what you see in success and saying “do that”. Brainless.

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Because we aren’t an elite team with money to burn and massive egos to massage. Every major tech company has on staff chefs and massage pods. Because they have to attract the best talent that has options of other elite companies. That doesn’t mean any old slop house should hire a chef and a masseuse. It’s ignoring the fundamentals and hoping instead a few 1% increases will make up the difference.

As I said it’s real management consultancy thinking. Not looking at our situation and how to improve it, just writing down what you see in success and saying “do that”. Brainless.

Yes much better to decide we are uniquely different and should plot a completely different path ….

skybluecam · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Because we aren’t an elite team with money to burn and massive egos to massage. Every major tech company has on staff chefs and massage pods. Because they have to attract the best talent that has options of other elite companies. That doesn’t mean any old slop house should hire a chef and a masseuse. It’s ignoring the fundamentals and hoping instead a few 1% increases will make up the difference.

As I said it’s real management consultancy thinking. Not looking at our situation and how to improve it, just writing down what you see in success and saying “do that”. Brainless.

You’ve come out with some weird takes recently but comparing the club to “any old slop house” as if that’s a good thing is up there.

fernandopartridge · Sep 23, 2024

Viktor17 said:
The big question is @Saddlebrains from what you’ve heard is it fixable?

Talk of divide amongst players / players unhappy/unsettled at not getting moves - slippery slope and will be sad if MR falls because of them downing tools. He deserves so much better.

As much as saddle gets some decent goss, he hasn't half prone to sensationalism and adding his own spin to things. He was exactly the same 12 months ago, remember all the "all the players think the new signings are shit" nonsense he was coming out with.

skyblue_55 · Sep 23, 2024

There are so many issues , that have raised there ugly heads .
Doug , every time we’ve spoken to him , he seems so envious of Brentford , Brighton & Leicester’s “ model “ & success & in my eyes wants to run before he can walk .
Robins has very nearly got his “dream “ squad , of 2 per positions , but he’s not the best manager to choose a team, as we are seeing & bottles it when things aren’t working, when just throwing players on , in a hit & hope scenario.
The Vivash departure has taken us backwards & him never to return , the replacement coaches , now the players not knowing who to take notice of & really none of them up to scratch .
Robins , I’m being told , hasn’t a clue to his best 11 , so after the next 2 games , we could see another man at the helm
CTID

oldfiver · Sep 23, 2024

Sky Blue Goblin said:
Need a director of football if Mark is happier without having to do it all then. My worry is Doug will only learn when Robins either walks or is sacked.

He might learn but won't admit he was wrong

Just as he was totally wrong about buying the club assuming he would also get the ground.

Old Warwickshire lad · Sep 23, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
At some point you’re going to hit a ceiling. Once you get some resource you’ve got to look at spending it cleverly.

we can’t compete with Leeds Burnley etc, so we have to look at new markets. The recruitment team is increased - Robins can’t be watching 1000s of videos of random Dutch kids we’ve found in the eredivisie.

These players we sign are clearly talented, but they’ve got weaknesses. These are identified by analysts. Coaching standards will have to be increased and individualised becuase what improves Bassette won’t necessarily improve Haji Wright.

then you’ve got to extract an extra 10% out of these players - hence your nutritionists who will tailor each menu to each player and even your sleep coaches. It’s all about getting ahead of the curve and trying to get more out of players than the other teams.

Vivaesh was a disciplinarian by the sounds of it, but after so long these mercurial talents we’re signing from all over aren’t going to respond to this. Robins stated he agreed with letting Vivaesh go - he’s probably noticed this

FFS we ain’t Man City,Real Madrid or Barca. We need to walk before we can run.
A manager ,ast. manager and a couple of specialists coaches was working fine.
Build a team spirit,run yourself into the ground for each other. And make sure you always have your teammates back.
That makes up your extra % at our level. Nobody wants to come up against 11 men who are not only good players, but are going to give it bollocks and get stuck into you if you want a battle.

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

Old Warwickshire lad said:
FFS we ain’t Man City,Real Madrid or Barca. We need to walk before we can run.
A manager ,ast. manager and a couple of specialists coaches was working fine.
Build a team spirit,run yourself into the ground for each other. And make sure you always have your teammates back.
That makes up your extra % at our level. Nobody wants to come up against 11 men who are not only good players, but are going to give it bollocks and get stuck into you if you want a battle.

This isn’t 1982 either.

Sky Blue Goblin · Sep 23, 2024

oldfiver said:
He might learn but won't admit he was wrong

Just as he was totally wrong about buying the club assuming he would also get the ground.

I mean he’s admitted being wrong already a few times like JSB this season.

Also on the stadium we put a strong bid forward which was more than Frasers but we’re too late. If I recall I remember him thinking we’re too late but we were going to try anyway?

Saddlebrains · Sep 23, 2024

rockwoodfleet said:
Yawn...... no agenda at all from you eh Saddle? You just say it as you see it blah blah blah....

Robins quote straight from his mouth but of course you know better.

You'll see

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Sep 23, 2024

Old Warwickshire lad said:
FFS we ain’t Man City,Real Madrid or Barca. We need to walk before we can run.
A manager ,ast. manager and a couple of specialists coaches was working fine.
Build a team spirit,run yourself into the ground for each other. And make sure you always have your teammates back.
That makes up your extra % at our level. Nobody wants to come up against 11 men who are not only good players, but are going to give it bollocks and get stuck into you if you want a battle.

We’re not talking Man City, Real or Barcelona. It’s a pretty standard operation in this league and the premier league which we have aspirations to get into.

Robins himself has alluded to this in the past, we’re way behind in terms of club infrastructure

We’ve been acting like a league two club for too long. As I said team spirit and grit only gets you so far these days

Saddlebrains · Sep 23, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
As much as saddle gets some decent goss, he hasn't half prone to sensationalism and adding his own spin to things. He was exactly the same 12 months ago, remember all the "all the players think the new signings are shit" nonsense he was coming out with.

Hence why I've been quite calm on all the Robins out talk etc

Especially with what he's going through at the moment in his personal life, I feel Doug could have pulled him out of the firing line tbh.

If Viveash was still here you'd have more than likely seen him in charge on Saturday, rightly so.

Robins deserves the time to turn it around. But we're in a results business and if results don't happen he will inevitably, rightly, be questioned

Sky Blue Goblin · Sep 23, 2024

Saddlebrains said:
You'll see

This is weird, of course people who hear more information are going to have opinions on what they hear.

Sky Blue Goblin · Sep 23, 2024

Saddlebrains said:
Hence why I've been quite calm on all the Robins out talk etc

Especially with what he's going through at the moment in his personal life, I feel Doug could have pulled him out of the firing line tbh.

If Viveash was still here you'd have more than likely seen him in charge on Saturday, rightly so.

Robins deserves the time to turn it around. But we're in a results business and if results don't happen he will inevitably, rightly, be questioned

To be fair if it’s that bad, what can we do to help? No offensive to the coaches but wouldn’t want any of them to take over atm.

Only option would be to put George on the interviews but I get a sense from robins he wouldn’t allow it.

Old Warwickshire lad · Sep 23, 2024

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
We’re not talking Man City, Real or Barcelona. It’s a pretty standard operation in this league and the premier league which we have aspirations to get into.

Robins himself has alluded to this in the past, we’re way behind in terms of club infrastructure

We’ve been acting like a league two club for too long. As I said team spirit and grit only gets you so far these days

Well I will have to take your word for it,as don’t know about the other clubs.
But if as you say,they all have high profile performance directors,nutritionists and the number of coaches we are now employing. I will be amazed.

Deity · Sep 23, 2024

shmmeee said:
Because we aren’t an elite team with money to burn and massive egos to massage. Every major tech company has on staff chefs and massage pods. Because they have to attract the best talent that has options of other elite companies. That doesn’t mean any old slop house should hire a chef and a masseuse. It’s ignoring the fundamentals and hoping instead a few 1% increases will make up the difference.

As I said it’s real management consultancy thinking. Not looking at our situation and how to improve it, just writing down what you see in success and saying “do that”. Brainless.

What fundamentals are we ignoring then ?

improve squad
Own players rather constant churn of loans
Improve training ground
Bring supporters with you

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