Or, if there is a sensible deal with Wasps based on e.g. league performance and/ or attendances, or maybe equity used as payment... there are other possibilities to being mortgaged to Wasps. We don't know yet, so it is hard to come to a conclusion that Wasps and the consortium are out to get a deal that condemns us to be where we are.
Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
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Or, if there is a sensible deal with Wasps based on e.g. league performance and/ or attendances, or maybe equity used as payment... there are other possibilities to being mortgaged to Wasps. We don't know yet, so it is hard to come to a conclusion that Wasps and the consortium are out to get a deal that condemns us to be where we are.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Who's this mug then? How can she just sit on it? That may have worked last season but next season is going to be a different kettle of fish. Between the way they've derided this offer that's given fans hope and the pathetic open letter all she's done is promote a boycott. No way we'll be able to break even next season. It's going to cost her money. MR isn't going to be given the tools to do the job, we're not going to get promoted, I'd be surprised if MR is still here by the end of next season and the downward cycle will continue costing them more money, stacking even more debt against the club, making the club even more worthless than it already is.
Your prediction that she can just sit on it is naive to say the least. Maybe even more naive than your £10M up front valuation. If Joy shares your sentiment that probably goes a long way to explaining how things have decayed so much and so quickly under SISU.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Are SISU using Hoff & Co as a stalking horse to flush out a buyer with deeper pockets, derisory = we want more cash and more of it up front, fan owners is everyones preferred solution, a sugar daddy (unlikely) but possibly better, but a buyer who spends loads on the club with little left to invest is still better then SISU but the least preferable option
Based on last night, some may be just going for a massdebate.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Probably more ridiculous than scary.
I said that Joy would be looking to save Arvo's money at least - her valuation not mine. She could also put enough in to give MR tools to get us a decent squad in 2017/18 and withdraw a short term bridging loan later in the season . She lent CCFC money recently and withdrew it later. I am sure gates would go up if we get a good start. The fans came running back when we went to Wembley. They are still there and many would come back at a hint of success - with or without SISU. So, I think we could survive as we are for at least for another year without her having to put more money in long term. Wasps and CRFC could end that of course when the Ricoh lease runs out.
My sentiment is that it would be better if Joy sold it .... the difference between my sentiment and hers is that I would hope she would take less than she needs to clear Arvo's debts.
I believe some fans would g back if we did well at start of season, but not in massive numbers, however if new owners took control I think you would see a massive increase.
Not just in pay on the gate but those who would invest in ST.
We have made the decision not to buy our STs and will not re-new till we have new owners, may go to some games but will pay on the day.
Not just in pay on the gate but those who would invest in ST.
We have made the decision not to buy our STs and will not re-new till we have new owners, may go to some games but will pay on the day.
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Simon Jordan already have the ridiculous sum wanted by the club via Joy Seppala et al? It can't be that hard to get hold of such a made up number. Hoffman will already know this I'm sure.
covboy1987
Well-Known Member
Why would he? It's so much more fun playing the Machiavellian game.
Most of the above is true - but the premise is false.
In your example the club was 'for sale' - apparently our club is not.
So totally different pricing principles.
How much do you think she wants for the club?
If nobody is prepared to pay what she wants, then what? Keep hurting the club in the hope she at some point accepts defeat?
covboy1987
Well-Known Member
apologies got my banks mixed up
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Uh-oh. Be prepared to be called a C.
jordan210
Well-Known Member
I don't get the "no proof of funds, and no transparency over the identity of would-be ‘investors’ "
Doing any sort of buying you don't reveal your hand to at the start.
The identities could give a lot away about how much money each one have. Its not hard to do a full search on somebodys finances. Inc current net worth house price and all the other information you could ever need.
Think about buying a house, Once you have an offer excepted thats when you show your proof of funds not before.
Doing any sort of buying you don't reveal your hand to at the start.
The identities could give a lot away about how much money each one have. Its not hard to do a full search on somebodys finances. Inc current net worth house price and all the other information you could ever need.
Think about buying a house, Once you have an offer excepted thats when you show your proof of funds not before.
I think Joy Seppala is in a corner here .What we know for sure is that she doesn't want to be here long term ,her reputation is going south fast . To stay and tread water on a non cost basis she has to do a deal with Wasps ,the only other alternative is to invest in a new stadium or stadium share and there would be no appetite for the investors to do this. Soon the FL will apply pressure to sort out the venue for future games and then the clock is ticking . Joy let the cat out of the bag when she asked GH to come back with another offer .
One things for sure the longer it goes on ,the lower value CCFC is. Come on Joy do the right thing and walk, everybody makes mistakes!
One things for sure the longer it goes on ,the lower value CCFC is. Come on Joy do the right thing and walk, everybody makes mistakes!
Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Is there any point in the fans now uniting behind Gary Hoffman to provide a united front to oust SISU ? Could be a powerful way ?
They need a guarantee or a bank to underwrite the bid - they don't have to see everything themselves. The guarantor/ underwriters do that.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's not really. We keep being told Ryton is worth more than what is being offered. So what, that's clearly not how valuing football clubs work. The example I gave was Wolves. £30M paid for the whole party. Their ground, training ground, academy and squad are worth considerably more than that and then you have to consider that this is a club (IIRC) that is in profit, higher up the pyramid and hasn't decimated it's customer base, sponsors and burnt every bridge in the process. The ground is possibly worth the £30M in real estate on it's own. Consider that and then explain how anyone could claim that someone should offer £10M up front?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
But was Wolves owner prepared to sell? Then everybody was happy to find a price.
SISU seem not prepared to sell, so normal valuation is pointless.
Forget the spreadsheets and go ask them directly the question we all want the answer to: What will it take for you to sell - what terms and conditions must a buyer accept and what will be the proper process?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So he should have offered the most he could straight away?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
No you complete buffoon, we've been down the only game in town road before to disastrous consequences
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
And the last takeover involved... Gary Hoffman.
So is it any wonder people would question who he judges appropriate this time?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Seem to be a lot of assumptions being made when in truth we know little about the people involved or the detail of the bid.
These are really successful businessmen , possibly but away from football so are/were Sisu Richardson Robinson mcginnity dulieu even fisher. We don't know who these people are. Doesn't mean they can run a football club
They have in depth knowledge. They have some knowledge you would assume but have no more in depth specific Ccfc knowledge than some here, they have not had access to Ccfc books and the accounts are a year old. Hoffman left Ccfc some time ago and it is not the same set up as then
There are no other interested parties. We simply do not know, we do know others have been interested in the past, including would seem some unreported.
That we will get huge crowds to finance this push to the premiership. Depends on the real damage done by Sisu ownership and getting consistent success on the pitch. That means front funding of the squad..... without success on the pitch the fans won't come back and stay back they won't stay simply because of a change of owners.
The plan is good. Is it ? We don't know a lot of the plan and details or the source of additional funding that will be needed the higher up we get. How does giving Sisu 50% of ryton or player sales affect cash flow or SCMP budget and therefore our chances of success for example.
It doesn't matter how many times we say sell its a good offer if the bid fails to meet Seppala expectations then there is no sale. It is not about asset value or what Sisu paid in the first place.
I hope something good comes of this in particular that Sisu and fisher go sooner rather than later. But we would be wrong after all we have been through to simply accept or assume. The fans need to question to challenge to demand transparency and detail, a robust well thought out and planned bid should have no problem in providing that or the reasoning behind any decision
These are really successful businessmen , possibly but away from football so are/were Sisu Richardson Robinson mcginnity dulieu even fisher. We don't know who these people are. Doesn't mean they can run a football club
They have in depth knowledge. They have some knowledge you would assume but have no more in depth specific Ccfc knowledge than some here, they have not had access to Ccfc books and the accounts are a year old. Hoffman left Ccfc some time ago and it is not the same set up as then
There are no other interested parties. We simply do not know, we do know others have been interested in the past, including would seem some unreported.
That we will get huge crowds to finance this push to the premiership. Depends on the real damage done by Sisu ownership and getting consistent success on the pitch. That means front funding of the squad..... without success on the pitch the fans won't come back and stay back they won't stay simply because of a change of owners.
The plan is good. Is it ? We don't know a lot of the plan and details or the source of additional funding that will be needed the higher up we get. How does giving Sisu 50% of ryton or player sales affect cash flow or SCMP budget and therefore our chances of success for example.
It doesn't matter how many times we say sell its a good offer if the bid fails to meet Seppala expectations then there is no sale. It is not about asset value or what Sisu paid in the first place.
I hope something good comes of this in particular that Sisu and fisher go sooner rather than later. But we would be wrong after all we have been through to simply accept or assume. The fans need to question to challenge to demand transparency and detail, a robust well thought out and planned bid should have no problem in providing that or the reasoning behind any decision
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skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
I'd choose Hoffman over SISU every time on every parallel universe I live on.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
This seems so blindingly obvious, I feel ashamed for liking it!
Astute
Well-Known Member
50% of transfer fees for 5 years sounds good. Who said they have to sell? If they wanted us to compete they would keep our best players.
Or have all transfers as undisclosed and tell SISU it was a tenner.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Presumably that means SISU collect on funds for bonuses coming in from transfer deals arranged in their ownership.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
You are very likely right to do so Which is precisely why there must be fans asking questions. Not because in all likelihood Hoffman is not the better option but because the future of the club is so precarious the next owner has to be the right one not just a better one.
Anyone reading this thinking I am putting his bid down or fighting against it would be quite wrong and should read my posts more carefully
Just want people to go in to ownership change with eyes wide open
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Has a crowdfunding page been set up to help Hoff?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Which is what Nick, Dave and others have been saying and getting moaned at for it.
Just need Sisu to allow the first domino to fall and everything else falls into place.
Delay buying your tickets to further pressurise Sisu.
Keep badgering Sisu by email and phone and lets use tomorrow to verbally let our thoughts be known.
Keep off the pitch though as Wasps have a big couple of games coming up
SISU sell to Hoffman -> club signs long term rent deal at the Ricoh -> New name sponsor revealed at the Ricoh -> Delayed valuation of the Ricoh stays the same -> WASPS bond scheme secured
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
What is your beef with Gary Hoffman, 4 years ago he fronted a consortium to try and take over the club, it failed which I thinks proved to be a great shame, we had our own ground then and a secure venue for our academy and a training ground.
hill83
Well-Known Member
It's not a negotiation until both parties are prepared to do a deal.