Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
But then if you're factoring in every source of potential income you have to think about the outgoings. We're just about breaking even, next year our attendance will take a hit and we have to invest in an academy.
Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
- Start date
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
That's if some Prem/Championship teams are willing to pay several millions for them.
If Ryton is say around £5mill, then CCFC to SISU is worth £25mill. To others CCFC is worth the players and Ryton, probably around £10-15mill at the most.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Oh dear. Of course he's spoken to them. That's not the point I've made as I'm sure you're well aware.
The point I've made is that some are making it into a what will wasps get out of it. Surely the first question is what will the club get out of it. Some aren't asking that question in favor of making it about Wasps.
samccov1987
Well-Known Member
Cant believe they seriously think £500k and some promotional add on's would get the deal agreed. Hoffman knows sisu all too well and must be expecting £5m minimum for them to walk taking ryton with them.
The positive for me is they've been spotted with Wasps although people will probably disagree. A rental deal on our current terms shouldn't be out of the question with new owners, Wasps need us for stadium sponsorship and rental income from their other tenants.
I don't buy the non-matchday revenue argument that Tim spouts, in L1 and now L2 our attendances are large enough to allow us to compete without these. It would pose problems in the championship although a new regime could build bridges with local businesses who use to support the club. There's even the possibility of us buying into acl at some point (Wasps have a loan to pay back and may welcome money from a new source who they can trust nearer the time).
The positive for me is they've been spotted with Wasps although people will probably disagree. A rental deal on our current terms shouldn't be out of the question with new owners, Wasps need us for stadium sponsorship and rental income from their other tenants.
I don't buy the non-matchday revenue argument that Tim spouts, in L1 and now L2 our attendances are large enough to allow us to compete without these. It would pose problems in the championship although a new regime could build bridges with local businesses who use to support the club. There's even the possibility of us buying into acl at some point (Wasps have a loan to pay back and may welcome money from a new source who they can trust nearer the time).
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Who? I can think of Maddison, but Wilson is probably out of the running now for any big moves in his career.
Nick
Administrator
Not even that, even if they bought the club for £500k debt free and then sold off Stevenson for £1m and Willis for £250k they are laughing aren't they? Especially as without any interest payments going out they could be quite close to running at an actual profit.
Nick
Administrator
OR people are discussing every aspect of it, which again you don't seem to like as you didn't last time when people asked Michael simple questions which turned out to be Hoffman using him as a front and a PR stunt.
Nobody is saying the whole thing is what will wasps get out of it. There have been plenty of questions, not just ones about Wasps.
Obviously more than 500 grand otherwise that wouldn't be the opening bid. No-one is going to take the first offer.
CCFC is still a name/ brand, as was proved with over 40000 people taking a trip down to `London.
The question is what are the preference shares or ARVO debts worth to Joy and her investors. If CCFC tick over without big losses in any league, there is no desperate need to sell. So 500 grand is not a great incentive to admit your losses to the investors. You could keep plodding along at little or no further cost.
I think they need a figure to show that they got something back by holding on and reducing losses. Even if CCFC is worth nothing on paper, you have people who will want to give it a go - for their egos or to gain publicity and good will in their businesses. So there is a value to someone, no matter how it looks on paper.
My guess would be 5 million plus maybe a few hundred grand. Why? Because of human nature, not profit and loss thinking. CCFC would be a nice thing to have, especially if you could get things moving.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
You're right, but I don't think £500k is the top/last bid, do you? Assuming they want debt free included in the bid.
(If they're genuinely bidding for the club that is)
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Really? How much debt did they settle in real terms then? How much was written off? How much was converted into shares? How much was the squad actually worth? In todays money how would that compare to the value of the current squad? What did SISU buy in terms of what league we were in? What our average attendances were?
They got a lot more for their money than what they're selling and they paid a lot less.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Was that what the offer was then?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Is it worth what SISU would take? That's what we need. SISU to name their price.
oucho
Well-Known Member
What sort off offer do you think they'd consider? £5m including debt free plus Ryton?
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
it has to be
squad value - say £2m
Ryton - say £2m
Goodwill /golden share ??
the selling price will be in the region of £5-£10m therefore
is there a buyer at that price?
squad value - say £2m
Ryton - say £2m
Goodwill /golden share ??
the selling price will be in the region of £5-£10m therefore
is there a buyer at that price?
Nick
Administrator
I have also said because we don't know he could be giving them £20m to buy the debt, if it was I reckon we would have heard about it rather than the "they only paid a quid" spin.
His last offer was £51,987.35 with the club being debt free wasn't it?
Nick
Administrator
But then they would make more liquidating and selling off Ryton wouldn't they?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
But surely they can't liquidate the club, due to debts that they owe to themselves?
Nick
Administrator
If they wrote off the debt and sold off everything they could like players, ryton, goalposts, desks etc and anything they could get a quid for they will still make more than £5m.
It's not as if they have to give HMRC or anybody a big chunk of that.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
I am on about this situation the club and Tim and I believe led said nothing was happening only last week.
So we're they kept out of the loop or were they lying.
Not a hard question really is it Nick.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's an accountant around that would argue against them if they said CCFC isn't a viable business and wound it up. Then everything gets sold off and whatever comes in goes to those owed the money, i.e.: SISU.
The first offer should be something approaching that figure. Far enough off that there's negotiation to take place but £500K is so low you're likely to just get ignored.
Nick
Administrator
Again, they categorically ruled it out and confirmed it rather than saying "we can't confirm or deny".
If their source had lied to them for that, would they still be printing stuff from them?
Would have thought they would just stay completely quiet about it and not mention it, seems like Hoffman was scrambling to get it covered up and denied. Hence the "his daughter is just signing for wasps" reason that came out.
oucho
Well-Known Member
It was just a genuine question, not trying to catch you out. I just don't know what amount is the market value.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
But surely, the self confession from Fisher of "breaking even" etc shows it is a viable business?
Actually, thinking about how dodgy the financial world is and the amount of loopholes, of course they can liquidate their own business that owes them money (facepalm)
Nick
Administrator
I don't think a value can be set, but I'd guess if working out what they would potentially get cash money through a liquidation you could aim for more than that.
MatthewWallis
Well-Known Member
Would the players not just be released from the contracts if we went to liquidation? You can't start negotiating fees for players if you don't exists as a club anymore. It would only be Ryton and a few bits of furniture they could sell, would that be more than £5m?
Nick
Administrator
Surely they would just sell them all first and then do it?
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
Their Goodwill brings the price well down Golden share is not theirs anyway its given by the F L to someone who is a fit and proper person to run the club(they got it wrong twice with SISU) .I think as an opening offer that was not bad. Just think what it will be like for SISU if a deal cannot be done people will hold back on any investment in the club S T or otherwise.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Can you believe we are in this situation to be trying to figure all this out?
I mean, actually stop and think about that for a second
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
not correct- without doing anything, they will have 100000 customers next season - that is where the goodwill is, whatever we think of sisu
Nick
Administrator
So CCFC is going to be distressed?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wrong. If the golden share goes it moves to another club and happens only when this club ceases to exist
Nick
Administrator
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
If the tried to do that clubs would make derisory offers knowing the current developments so they would not get much money in return.