Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (7 Viewers)

D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
As for crystallising the losses - which losses?

The original investment, £28m, made by the 5 private equity funds would have to be valued each year for the annual investment report. So its down grading has to have been known for years, Its just a question of when the loss is physically taken. What we don't know is if the £28m is all or a small part of the whole fund (- in any case I would argue the £28m wasn't all in cash, nearer to £18m in my opinion actually invested) so the loss could have been cushioned by profits elsewhere. The £28m is stuck in SBS&L not Otium which could be a problem for the investors if CCFC sold but is it new losses and unknown? The liability/loss to investors is already gone in reality, their only hope of a return is the legal actions by SBS&L because anything CCFC is charged to ARVO.

There is a possibility to consider that the original investors were repaid a pittance in the £ some time ago and that the actual purchase price is very little for the newer current investors in SBS&L (ie most of this loss already crystallised years ago so is not currently a big problem for SISU now). It could have been as simple as moving investors to more profitable funds. Due to the lack of transparency only SISU know the loss to come from any sale of CCFC that will hit the shareholders in SBS&L. It could be nothing like the £28m that we expect

The ARVO investment in Otium would also be assessed annually, but is secured on any assets in CCFC and on paper at least earning an income (interest accrued but not paid out). It would therefore have a value because of the assets it is secured on. I suspect settling ARVO is the key to any deal, their liability stood at £8m capital plus £4m interest 31-05-2016 accounts. However the group financial statements disclose that the amount put in by ARVO is around £16m in total over the years since 2012. A settlement well above any offer so far is required by ARVO I would think.

Ryton can be used to negotiate in any settlement but if there is already a presale agreement or it can be moved to another company then its value in a 3rd party bid is not a lot as ARVO already control it. Seppala could (but hasn't said anything) simply say we will sell you all the football assets but Ryton not for sale - that would leave the cash required for a sale still the same, more than the 2.2m plus uncertain add ons

It may be that the particular investors involved see these figures as pocket money - we don't know. They took a chance and this didn't turn out well but other "bets" have. In which case crystallising losses is not a problem. That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring

If CCFC through managing the cash flows does not require further funding from SISU, requires only a non binding letter annually to auditors that the loans wont be withdrawn and the owners will continue to try to source funding then CCFC has been parked to survive on its own resources and it is no longer hurting the owners. There is no need as yet to sell, and certainly no need to sell at a low value. It is really only promotion to the Championship that would cause the owners problems in terms of having to finance larger expenditure.

The only pressure point looming would seem to be having a home ground in Coventry. BPA if it ever were to be brought to fruition wont happen before the end of the Ricoh term so it is either a rolling deal with Wasps or pointing a finger at Wasps/CCC saying CCFC were forced out (grounds for legal action?) so EFL will back any alternative. Of course if MR makes the team successful then there is an element of comfort there for the owners they can utilise in any negotiations and probably a harder job for the Hoffman consortium or others to buy in and a price increase in Seppala's eyes

I would suggest nothing is going to happen any time soon to change the owners
I find it astonishing that when it comes to a new ground etc. Fisher is (quite rightly!) disbelieved, but when he mentions about the crystallising of losses, this is automatically accepted.

I see no rational reason why the original SISU investment wouldn't have been written off in terms of an investment by now.
 

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
Seems to me CT claims that dialogue continues are a bit tenuous. The "dialogue" seems to be very one sided, with Seppala responding with a blunt not interested. Sending Seppala three bids rejected as unwelcome or insufficient and emails asking to meet that are refused is not really constructive or even first step dialogue between two parties is it?

Is she willing to sell at anything like what has been offered or at all? Not at the moment it would seem.

Seems a bit harsh on Moz if he is simply passing on what he has been told ?
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Let's face it, we don't have a clue what's going on. All we've got to go on is hearsay and conjecture. We might as well park this thread and come back to it when we get some actual news. I know it's the close season and nothing much else is going on, but even so!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I find it astonishing that when it comes to a new ground etc. Fisher is (quite rightly!) disbelieved, but when he mentions about the crystallising of losses, this is automatically accepted.
I find it astonishing that if you know someone has told a lie and then they say something that you haven't got a clue about you also have to accept that as a lie.

And BTW I agree that the original investment could have been written off. But if it has it doesn't mean that the same investors are not still involved and are looking at getting some money back.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
I find it astonishing that if you know someone has told a lie and then they say something that you haven't got a clue about you also have to accept that as a lie.
Me, OSB, Captain Dart and others have been calling this into question for ages, but it doesn't get traction.
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring.
I honestly think this is how it’s been for several years now, and I believe the Finnish translation is “sisu”.

Bored to tears with it all tbh, but got to admire the optimism of nearly a quarter of a million views for the thread.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Me, OSB, Captain Dart and others have been calling this into question for ages, but it doesn't get traction.
Some question you for believing anything he says if you mention the 3 weeks. It is all stupid really. And it doesn't help. And as I said we don't know if the same investors are still involved.
 

Nick

Administrator
All white, mostly older generation. Nothing against any individuals and they may be best people for the job would just be nice to see a bit more diversity.
Diversity-Britains-Got-Talent-GIF.gif
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I have heard some very reliable rumours recently , but there is a post on the fans forum with photos etc , documentation blurred out for legal reasons. basically Hoffman Elliot and 2 other businessmen from Coventry have agreed a deal to take the club over , and there are a couple of things left to iron out still .
If it happens il accept the apologies later , if it don't then il apologies then

Any update on this Hoffman/Elliot agreed to deal to take over the club?

Just wondering like.
 

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Awaiting the apology. FWIW I think Hoffman may resurrect the offer in 9 months when SISU are under pressure to find somewhere for us to play in 2018-2019.
This is the crucial point, finding somewhere to play, the tipping point. Without that ccfc are valueless as it might not exist !l
 

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
Awaiting the apology. FWIW I think Hoffman may resurrect the offer in 9 months when SISU are under pressure to find somewhere for us to play in 2018-2019.
I would guess that SISU will be banking on the club being promoted this season and potentially adding value. If this looks likely expect an interim deal to be struck with ACL/Wasps, as by that time JR2 will [hopefully] have been concluded, so they can maximise a sell off.
If SISU lose the case and we don't look like being promoted then there might be a fire sale before them bailing out.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
If Wasps are smart they will be making contingency plans for us to be gone.
If all the legal action is dead and buried.
It's then down to SISU to decide if they want to run a football team from another town or city. When by doing so it actually doesn't put any pressure on anyone. So there is no reason for them to do it.
SISU are then left with a choice walk away or actually try and get their money back by success in the pitch. I can only guess they will walk away.
 
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Ccfc has no net value with or without a stadium deal. The value to Sisu is a ransom value.

I would recommend that any potential purchaser Hoffman or otherwise hold fire right now. There is no need to rush in.

And definitely should not do so for knee jerk reasons or to keep fans happy
 

mds

Well-Known Member
Ccfc has no net value with or without a stadium deal. The value to Sisu is a ransom value.

I would recommend that any potential purchaser Hoffman or otherwise hold fire right now. There is no need to rush in.

And definitely should not do so for knee jerk reasons or to keep fans happy
Dont honestly believe there is ransom value, they have burnt their bridges and upset the majority (apparently, nopm n all that), they cant be dumb enough to take the club out of the City again, there is absolutely zero gain, that would cost them money, they could and probably will negotiate a rolling contract to play at the Ricoh.
They wont fold the club as there is still a chance long term they may get a little back for very little outlay.
Hoffman and co, no matter when they make their bid, it has to be a significant improvement on the previous reported bids if they want to see movement on the clubs side.
I think we are stuck with SISU for a fair while more, i just hope Robins can do a good job and make us more attractive to real prospective buyers.
 

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Dont honestly believe there is ransom value, they have burnt their bridges and upset the majority (apparently, nopm n all that), they cant be dumb enough to take the club out of the City again, there is absolutely zero gain, that would cost them money, they could and probably will negotiate a rolling contract to play at the Ricoh.
They wont fold the club as there is still a chance long term they may get a little back for very little outlay.
Hoffman and co, no matter when they make their bid, it has to be a significant improvement on the previous reported bids if they want to see movement on the clubs side.
I think we are stuck with SISU for a fair while more, i just hope Robins can do a good job and make us more attractive to real prospective buyers.
Is Hoffman not a real prospective buyer?
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
Ccfc has no net value with or without a stadium deal. The value to Sisu is a ransom value.

I would recommend that any potential purchaser Hoffman or otherwise hold fire right now. There is no need to rush in.

And definitely should not do so for knee jerk reasons or to keep fans happy

I agree but there will be competition when the "time is right " and SISU ready to bail out.
Wasps management must be looking very closely at the situation. Hoffman is far from stupid but he will understand the risk of delaying.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
Of course it also depends if the Hoffman bid is based on a "vanity acquisition" or heart rules the head approach apposed to a 100% business/accountancy decision.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
I believe any purchase would have to be a vanity buy or else you would run as fast as you could away from our club.
In the main yep.

Or...

They're mad. Or...

It's a shot to nothing, for a nice fat profit if it works, with untold consequences if it doesn't...
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Of course it also depends if the Hoffman bid is based on a "vanity acquisition" or heart rules the head approach apposed to a 100% business/accountancy decision.

From what Hoffman said during his radio interview it's probably a bit of both for the consortium. I'm sure they'll enjoy the white knight feeling of riding in and saving the club from the evil emperor but he also spoke about himself and no one else involved being under any dissolution of A) getting their money back out the club. Or B) not having to continue funding the club to some degree. Given that the people involved are all supposed to be successful and capable business people you'd have to say that there is a large part of heart ruling the head.
 
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oucho

Well-Known Member
.....and it's all gone quiet over there? No news is bad news in this instance I suppose?
 

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