SCG Meeting (2 Viewers)

Steve.B50 · Jul 31, 2015

Another small point from the SCG, following on from a question I was asked to put forward.

Tried to get a confirmed yes or no from SW, asked will we be signing an out and out Centre Forward before the season starts, his reply was "hopefully", when pushed he replied "I hope to have something solid in the next 4-5 days".

ashbyjan · Jul 31, 2015

chiefdave said:
Good stuff, sounds like a more constructive meeting than the last few!

Bit worrying that ACL can kick us out at the end of the season and seem to be, shall we say, not the most accommodating of landlords.

Not surprised to hear the FL aren't happy to keep moving fixtures. We know everything is at their discretion but it is a rule that FL clubs should have primacy.

Not confident the club are going to put an application in before the deadline RBC gave them. The little glimmer of hope that something might actually be happening would be gone then. South of the city would most likely be Ryton / airport way which will also be RBC so on the same deadline.

If they've budgeted on a certain level of attendance, 8K for example, what happens if 10K turn up every week. Will TM get more money to spend?

The primacy point was raised and the response was that as far as ACL were concerned the club has primacy means CCFC have exclusivity of the pitch and the changing rooms - anything else is on a first come first served basis. The insomnia event will attract 20,000 people and earn ACL probably double what CCFC will earn them in a season so from a commercial point of view it obvioulsy makes sense for them to maximise the usage of the facility. The problem is the club cannot afford to block book the facilities they need for corporate clients as they have no guarantee of selling the packages and cannot take the risk of wasted money and on the other hand ACL cannot afford to let them stand empty - not a great situation. The FL allow clubs to move a fixture to within 7 days but we are looking at reversing fixtures etc. Its not ideal but we will have to work through it. Waggott was not saying it maliciousness or ACL being difficult its just the commercial reality of being a tenant in a multi purpose arena.

The budget is set around 11k attendence 5750 season ticket and rest walk up and away. My view is this is optimistic unless we have a cracking start to the season. Current season ticket sales were stated at 4900. I would guess if we exceed the budgeted figures more money for Mowbray.

Hobo · Jul 31, 2015

torchomatic said:
Thanks Jan. To be honest being cut off from the owners is the best news we could have and could be why positive things have started to happen this summer.

I agree Torch, it might make budgets tight but at least we are starting to stand on our own two feet. With some distance been put between SISU and the club, fans might start to feel more confident that their hard earned cash when spent will actually be going to the club. In a way it is putting the club a little more into the hands of the fans.

skybluetony176 · Jul 31, 2015

ajsccfc said:
Can we stop making out that anyone making a point on the internet is automatically a coward hiding behind a keyboard? It's 2015, the entire world's online.

That's very brave of you to say that while hiding behind your keyboard

wingy · Jul 31, 2015

I think Its fair to say the Club Is cooked.
We will have to hope for Promotion
A stories season for Maddison and his eventual sale
Or the Academy Is at risk and possibly a luxury too far currently.
I do believe letting walse off and cut the ties Is fair enough, however that can't really be Etruscan It as she's stated those Wealthy backers of hers will build us a ground.
I'm spitting feathers over club money being utilised to mitigate
a) The losses from Northampton Clark and Christie fees etc, possibly others
b) Club money refurbing the Training ground
ostensibly an Arvo asset currently.

ajsccfc · Jul 31, 2015

skybluetony176 said:
That's very brave of you to say that while hiding behind your keyboard

Hey, don't make me come over there, because I clearly won't

oldskyblue58 · Jul 31, 2015

its not entirely cut off though, there is still the small matter of the interest accruing to ARVO and SBS&L. Even if it is rolled up in to debt then it still creates pressure from the owners on the club budget. If it has to be paid over then its even harder to operate.

Maybe fans should reel in their expectations for the coming season ? and perhaps be pleasantly surprised rather than be resigned to disappointment.? There is no obvious way of increasing income (which has been squeezed in many ways compared to last season) save from the team getting off to a flying start or at least gaining good momentum in the first half of season...... that would build the crowds and therefore income

TM (and SW) has a tough job this coming season because of the income & operational constraints of being left to stand on own two feet and will need all the support we are each able to give

Captain Dart · Jul 31, 2015

Steve.B50 said:
Another small point from the SCG, following on from a question I was asked to put forward.

Tried to get a confirmed yes or no from SW, asked will we be signing an out and out Centre Forward before the season starts, his reply was "hopefully", when pushed he replied "I hope to have something solid in the next 4-5 days".

There was some discussion of football matters!

stupot07 · Jul 31, 2015

Jan, did they mention F&B's and parking? From calculations OSB has previously done, and my back of a fag packet maths, it's a pretty insignificant amount.

Ps. Thanks for the updates, it's much appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

chiefdave · Jul 31, 2015

Steve.B50 said:
Tried to get a confirmed yes or no from SW

Steve Waggot said:
hopefully

Sounds about right!

oldskyblue58 · Jul 31, 2015

ashbyjan said:
I also brought up the idea that we need to look at structure of SCG, looking at other clubs models, how members are appointed, etc and it will be an item for discussion although one club official did tell us we are lucky to have this level contact with the club and were privileged to have the SCG!

The luck works both ways doesn't it? because just imagine the chasm between fans and the decision makers at the club without something like the SCG or SBT. The information feeds both ways and was always intended that way, somewhat crass statement by that club official I feel.

It shouldn't be looked at as a privilege either, every well run club should have a well defined and representative method of contact with its fans. The supporters need to feel involved in their club not feel like a necessary inconvenience. The knock on from that of course if done properly is engaged fans are more willing to part with hard earnt cash (yes I know the primary force is the success on the pitch)

The SCG pre dates any one that is presently left in a management or executive role at the club and was established at the suggestion of a number of fans groups I believe including the Trust and London Supporters group

ashbyjan · Jul 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
Jan, did they mention F&B's and parking? From calculations OSB has previously done, and my back of a fag packet maths, it's a pretty insignificant amount.

Ps. Thanks for the updates, it's much appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No it wasn't mentioned but I seem to recall CCFC gets a percentage of F & B but not sure about car parking, think that all stays with ACL. Guess for £4k a game youre not going to get much in the way of sweetners - all more reason (as was suggested by Steve Brown during meeting) that club talks to coach companies about arranging coach and ticket deals

stupot07 · Jul 31, 2015

Do you think it's worth SBT doing a "Your Club Needs You" type campaign to help with ST's and ticket sales as well as practical support? I know it's personal decision to go or not to go, but if we're now completely on our two feet then we need people through the gate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

ashbyjan · Jul 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
Do you think it's worth SBT doing a "Your Club Needs You" type campaign to help with ST's and ticket sales as well as practical support? I know it's personal decision to go or not to go, but if we're now completely on our two feet then we need people through the gate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

In my personal opinion yes but I am no longer anything to do with the Trust board. I think these are perilous times for the club and at the end of the day owners will come and go but supporters will always remain, we are in a massive hole (who dug it and who filled it is now history and to keep raking over old ground is a waste of time, effort and ultimately futile - we all have our own opinions and no amount of internet or pub discussion is going to change the current predicament).

We are no longer a big club (potentially yes but currently no) and we have to start acting accordingly - maybe it needs some Dunkirk style spirit - all in this shit together etc. SISU aren't going anywhere soon, they have no interest in the club bar its a vehicle for legal actions - should they act like responsible owners and be spending their money on the club rather than lawyers yes but they're not going to no matter how hard we bleat or protest because they appear to see a better financial return through the courts than through football

So yes I feel its time to put our differences aside, stop crying over spilt milk, what's done is done, our club is in the shit and we need to work together to save it - not for SISU but for ourselves, our families and for future generations to come (at that point fireworks and cannons need to explode !!!)(lets face it neither the owners nor the council nor the FL or anyone else is going to help)

rupert_bear · Jul 31, 2015

If sisu have cut the finance strings to make the club self sufficient which is understandable does that mean the whole of any in coming transfer fee is the clubs not sisu's. Thinking of any would be sell on fee from a Wilson transfer

ashbyjan · Jul 31, 2015

The sell on for WIlson is 10% and it would go to the club - obviously how it is used would be up to Waggott - I think it being directly syphoned off to the evil Seppala's underground lair are a bit far fetched _ probably have to go via Cayman Islands first!!

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 31, 2015

11k attendance average seems worryingly optimistic to me. No pressure on a good start, then!

Ah well, thanks for the report... and thanks for the way you presented it too. Very fair. Good to hear a meeting was more as it maybe 'should' be, too.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jul 31, 2015

ashbyjan said:
In my personal opinion yes but I am no longer anything to do with the Trust board. I think these are perilous times for the club and at the end of the day owners will come and go but supporters will always remain, we are in a massive hole (who dug it and who filled it is now history and to keep raking over old ground is a waste of time, effort and ultimately futile - we all have our own opinions and no amount of internet or pub discussion is going to change the current predicament).

We are no longer a big club (potentially yes but currently no) and we have to start acting accordingly - maybe it needs some Dunkirk style spirit - all in this shit together etc. SISU aren't going anywhere soon, they have no interest in the club bar its a vehicle for legal actions - should they act like responsible owners and be spending their money on the club rather than lawyers yes but they're not going to no matter how hard we bleat or protest because they appear to see a better financial return through the courts than through football

So yes I feel its time to put our differences aside, stop crying over spilt milk, what's done is done, our club is in the shit and we need to work together to save it - not for SISU but for ourselves, our families and for future generations to come (at that point fireworks and cannons need to explode !!!)(lets face it neither the owners nor the council nor the FL or anyone else is going to help)

Exactly what I've been saying for years, we can't force SISU to leave by not going. The budget will just be cut accordingly to deal with this and we will just slip further down. The best thing I've been saying for years would be to have 20k+ every week get a promotion and then SISU might actually have something worth selling (although now the stadium situation has changed significantly so that might not be viable now as not many people will buy a club with no stadium and no long term guarantees over where they will be playing)

Unfortunately there still seems to be a section of 'supporters' who are actively encouragingly people to not attend.

Jan, this question has probably been raised before but lets just say pretend for a moment the new stadium is real. How will it be funded?

Skyblueweeman · Jul 31, 2015

I might be being a bit thick here (likely) but if we've been pretty much cut off from the club and the finances are coming from the fans, what's the point of SISU hanging around?

They could still sell up (regardless of who would buy us) and have a clause in regular payments on what they're owed...

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ccfcway · Jul 31, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
I might be being a bit thick here (likely) but if we've been pretty much cut off from the club and the finances are coming from the fans, what's the point of SISU hanging around?

They could still sell up (regardless of who would buy us) and have a clause in regular payments on what they're owed...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

they now have an asset that washes it face in terms of no net loses. No-one is going to buy it for much money, so if they sell, it would be for peanuts. If they keep it on the books, it is a major sporting team in a one club city in the 9th largest city the county and the potential to be worth some money.

Why would they sell at the "bottom of the cycle" ?

Limey · Jul 31, 2015

ashbyjan said:
In my personal opinion yes but I am no longer anything to do with the Trust board. I think these are perilous times for the club and at the end of the day owners will come and go but supporters will always remain, we are in a massive hole (who dug it and who filled it is now history and to keep raking over old ground is a waste of time, effort and ultimately futile - we all have our own opinions and no amount of internet or pub discussion is going to change the current predicament).

We are no longer a big club (potentially yes but currently no) and we have to start acting accordingly - maybe it needs some Dunkirk style spirit - all in this shit together etc. SISU aren't going anywhere soon, they have no interest in the club bar its a vehicle for legal actions - should they act like responsible owners and be spending their money on the club rather than lawyers yes but they're not going to no matter how hard we bleat or protest because they appear to see a better financial return through the courts than through football

So yes I feel its time to put our differences aside, stop crying over spilt milk, what's done is done, our club is in the shit and we need to work together to save it - not for SISU but for ourselves, our families and for future generations to come (at that point fireworks and cannons need to explode !!!)(lets face it neither the owners nor the council nor the FL or anyone else is going to help)

Great post. Jan you must have contacts on SBT. A rallying call might sway a few more through the gates. Supporters will always be the clubs biggest asset.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jul 31, 2015

Skyblueweeman said:
I might be being a bit thick here (likely) but if we've been pretty much cut off from the club and the finances are coming from the fans, what's the point of SISU hanging around?

They could still sell up (regardless of who would buy us) and have a clause in regular payments on what they're owed...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possibly but firstly I think they would find it difficult to sell that deal to a prospective buyer.

Then there is the possibility that they are just hanging onto us whilst they continue to pursue all there legal routes against the council loan.

skyblueinBaku · Jul 31, 2015

ccfcway said:
they now have an asset that washes it face in terms of no net loses. No-one is going to buy it for much money, so if they sell, it would be for peanuts. If they keep it on the books, it is a major sporting team in a one club city in the 9th largest city the county and the potential to be worth some money.

Why would they sell at the "bottom of the cycle" ?

Not bloody 'washes it's face' again! Speak English, for God's sake!

Grendel · Jul 31, 2015

ccfcway said:
they now have an asset that washes it face in terms of no net loses. No-one is going to buy it for much money, so if they sell, it would be for peanuts. If they keep it on the books, it is a major sporting team in a one club city in the 9th largest city the county and the potential to be worth some money.

Why would they sell at the "bottom of the cycle" ?

That's hilarious. So an organisation washing its face shouldn't be sold.

ccfcway · Jul 31, 2015

Grendel said:
That's hilarious. So an organisation washing its face shouldn't be sold.

I didn't say it shouldn't be sold, I said why would they sell when its worth nothing at the moment ?. Its not costing them anything to keep and could be worth something longer term.

do tell whats funny about that ?

fernandopartridge · Aug 1, 2015

ashbyjan said:
In my personal opinion yes but I am no longer anything to do with the Trust board. I think these are perilous times for the club and at the end of the day owners will come and go but supporters will always remain, we are in a massive hole (who dug it and who filled it is now history and to keep raking over old ground is a waste of time, effort and ultimately futile - we all have our own opinions and no amount of internet or pub discussion is going to change the current predicament).

We are no longer a big club (potentially yes but currently no) and we have to start acting accordingly - maybe it needs some Dunkirk style spirit - all in this shit together etc. SISU aren't going anywhere soon, they have no interest in the club bar its a vehicle for legal actions - should they act like responsible owners and be spending their money on the club rather than lawyers yes but they're not going to no matter how hard we bleat or protest because they appear to see a better financial return through the courts than through football

So yes I feel its time to put our differences aside, stop crying over spilt milk, what's done is done, our club is in the shit and we need to work together to save it - not for SISU but for ourselves, our families and for future generations to come (at that point fireworks and cannons need to explode !!!)(lets face it neither the owners nor the council nor the FL or anyone else is going to help)

Thanks for the update and clear headed thinking Jan. Respect and PUSB.

Terry Gibson's perm · Aug 1, 2015

Having looked through the thread I am guessing the club are still wasting money on tea and biscuits on this little band of merry men and ladies and the group is not being disbanded, whoever from the club who said we are privaliged to have this group should be put on the pitch before the Wigan game to see the reception they get when they say it in front of our fans.

ccfcway · Aug 1, 2015

skyblueindorset said:
Not bloody 'washes it's face' again! Speak English, for God's sake!

which god ?

armybike · Aug 1, 2015

Why no easy terms pay scheme for season tickets? Club cannot get consumer credit license.

This doesn't bode very well for me. The finances of the club are so interwoven it seems the "we've balanced the books" utterings from the owners don't stack up.

Crowds of 11k seem very optimistic (being realistic not negative) and the previous smoke and mirrors of turning debt into shares is just papering over the cracks.

skyblueinBaku · Aug 1, 2015

ccfcway said:
which god ?

The God of plain English will do for a start.

skybluetony176 · Aug 1, 2015

If we are "washing our face" does this mean we're only up to our necks in shit now?

oldfiver · Aug 1, 2015

Why no easy terms pay scheme for season tickets? Club cannot get consumer credit license.

armybike said:
This doesn't bode very well for me. The finances of the club are so interwoven it seems the "we've balanced the books" utterings from the owners don't stack up.

It is taking up to two years to get new CC Licenses even for established companies - all due to legislation changes

fernandopartridge · Aug 1, 2015

oldfiver said:
Why no easy terms pay scheme for season tickets? Club cannot get consumer credit license.

armybike said:

This doesn't bode very well for me. The finances of the club are so interwoven it seems the "we've balanced the books" utterings from the owners don't stack up.

It is taking up to two years to get new CC Licenses even for established companies - all due to legislation changes

Click to expand...

Is that off the back of the payday loan controversy?

ashbyjan · Aug 1, 2015

fernandopartridge said:
oldfiver said:

Why no easy terms pay scheme for season tickets? Club cannot get consumer credit license.

Is that off the back of the payday loan controversy?

Click to expand...

Like I said I missed the start of the meeting when this was discussed so don't know reason given for CCFC or I guess Otium not being able to get CCL but I believe that it would be possible to offer easy payment scheme to supporters if it was simply done without interest being charged. No financial expert but seems like an option to attract more season ticket sales

skybluetony176 · Aug 1, 2015

oldfiver said:
It is taking up to two years to get new CC Licenses even for established companies - all due to legislation changes

Isn't this something SISU's private bank ARVO could cover? Or can't they get the license either? Or Joys multimillionaire investors they're so proud of?

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