Excuse me when have I called Sixfields attendees scum? How many times have I encouraged people to take their kids? So dont come on here insinuating that I am part of the "we" in your last sentence.
I think the point is that she has been known to use "spin" and has a bad memory - apparently - when it suits. ML seems to use " spin " as well. He, as a SISU non executive director, constantly slags the council and even compares them to North Korea. In other words, take SISU statements with a pinch of salt. The JR is no certainty for SISU, but provides a welcome distraction. In this game CCFC and it's future are purely incidental. It is all about getting the - bad - investment back. It would be more constructive ( for the future of CCFC ) to withdraw the JR, stop slagging CCC off and get back to negotiations about a solution to the RICOH problem. Maybe then SISU could recoup at least some of their losses.What was the outcome of that case? Was she convicted of something?
I know. And I feel for you.
But if you do not allow your self to have doubts - you will be stuck.
Imagine if the JR reveal that sisu and ccc actually had a joint plan to let the club buy ACL and that it was ccc who reneged on that agreement and that everything following was simply a chain of events?
In that case you will still be self-exiled from the club ... your club ... for how many years? Possible the rest of your life.
NONE of us knows ALL the facts - there is plenty of room for doubts.
I know. And I feel for you.
But if you do not allow your self to have doubts - you will be stuck.
Imagine if the JR reveal that sisu and ccc actually had a joint plan to let the club buy ACL and that it was ccc who reneged on that agreement and that everything following was simply a chain of events?
In that case you will still be self-exiled from the club ... your club ... for how many years? Possible the rest of your life.
NONE of us knows ALL the facts - there is plenty of room for doubts.
Do you really take everything as being personal? I'm not having a one-on-one conversation with you, I'm talking generally. People are blaming one side or the other. That's 'people', not 'you'. Do you understand the concept? We are not texting each other, we are discussing things on a message board.
I think the point is that she has been known to use "spin" and has a bad memory - apparently - when it suits. ML seems to use " spin " as well. He, as a SISU non executive director, constantly slags the council and even compares them to North Korea. In other words, take SISU statements with a pinch of salt. The JR is no certainty for SISU, but provides a welcome distraction. In this game CCFC and it's future are purely incidental. It is all about getting the - bad - investment back. It would be more constructive ( for the future of CCFC ) to withdraw the JR, stop slagging CCC off and get back to negotiations about a solution to the RICOH problem. Maybe then SISU could recoup at least some of their losses.
What was the outcome of that case? Was she convicted of something?
I do have doubts about all of this,but there is one thing I have no doubts about and that is who took my team from its city to a town 30 odd miles away and made it a laughing stock. I was proud of my club I still love the team but am I proud of my club? No,the time for me walking away from the club I have supported for over 50 years is fast approaching and then I will just be part of the thousands who have desrted it in the past.
convicted for what?
i believe the overall outcome was sisu lost. i'll find the link if you like, i know you only deal in fact not speculation. did you find the proof for your claim that acl put us in administration?
Sorry to say that a JR win or valuable information for SISU, does not necessarily enhance the future of CCFC. I support the team and hope for sporting success through CCFC. Success for a hedge fund that got in at the wrong time, didn't due proper due diligence and has employed such people as Igwe and dulux, is not necessarily success for CCFC. It may provide SISU with an out, but I think that a return to the negotiating table and dropping the "slagging off" of CCC may move us, CCFC, forward. As long as the team is called Coventry, you need some sort of relationship with the city of that name and the fans of that team. At present SISU have no relationship to the city and little to the fans ( 90% of them don't even watch "home" games ).Of course ML uses spin - just like each and every other stakeholder in this sad melodrama. Even posters on this board uses spin to beef up their stance.
Sisu may well lose the JR, but it gives them the platform to make public information that is otherwise protected by NDA's.
And that could prove to be just as valuable for them as actually winning the JR!
I know. And I feel for you.
But if you do not allow your self to have doubts - you will be stuck.
Imagine if the JR reveal that sisu and ccc actually had a joint plan to let the club buy ACL and that it was ccc who reneged on that agreement and that everything following was simply a chain of events?
In that case you will still be self-exiled from the club ... your club ... for how many years? Possible the rest of your life.
NONE of us knows ALL the facts - there is plenty of room for doubts.
You cannot in your wildest dreams see the possibility that they were actually forced to move? That their choices were limited to either
- lose the club and their investors money, or
- stay as tenant in an unsustainable financial position for at least 10 years, or
- break the lease and move out?
I fail to see they had other options and I actually think breaking the lease is one of the few things they have done right.
Sorry to say that a JR win or valuable information for SISU, does not necessarily enhance the future of CCFC. I support the team and hope for sporting success through CCFC. Success for a hedge fund that got in at the wrong time, didn't due proper due diligence and has employed such people as Igwe and dulux, is not necessarily success for CCFC. It may provide SISU with an out, but I think that a return to the negotiating table and dropping the "slagging off" of CCC may move us, CCFC, forward. As long as the team is called Coventry, you need some sort of relationship with the city of that name and the fans of that team. At present SISU have no relationship to the city and little to the fans ( 90% of them don't even watch "home" games ).
You cannot in your wildest dreams see the possibility that they were actually forced to move? That their choices were limited to either
- lose the club and their investors money, or
- stay as tenant in an unsustainable financial position for at least 10 years, or
- break the lease and move out?
I fail to see they had other options and I actually think breaking the lease is one of the few things they have done right.
Well, I too don't care if sisu regain their money or not. But I do care that this club get its
finances in check - it's the only way we can survive long term. For that we need to own 'ACL', preferbly at the Ricoh but if that can't happen then a new stadium will have to do.
I agree that Igwe/Dulieu was a disaster, but the real damage under sisu was made by Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot. It was a fresh start with enough money and goodwill for them to achieve everything, but sadly they throw it all away.
So how in your wildest dreams can you see that playing in front of 2000 people for 5 years building a 12000 seater stadium costing 25 million together costing you tell me, is better than saying
Hold on CCC and Higgs lets start again let us buy the Higgs share therefore owning 50% of ACl then after a certain length of time we puchase CCCs share of ACL on an extended lease of 75 100 125 years whatever. From a purely business perspective which would have been cheaper and bought them a bigger return?
Never say never. But with all trust evaporated I don't think that will happen. If we go back to the Ricoh it will be either because sisu wins the JR or because ccc surrender their stonewall attitude.
I wouldn't take a bet on what will happen.
That leads to the pulling of the plug by our beloved owners
Which I think will be the final result
administration? was the media reports that sisu appointed Paul Appleton as administrator incorrect? clearly i'm not an intellect like you but i always thought that the person putting the company into administration appointed the administrator?
A juvenile statement - sisu put the club in administration to get their preferred administrator - The council submitted the papers to the court to place the club into administration and lined up Guilfoyle as their administrator. As ever they were outwitted by a highly predictable riposte.
clumsily attempting to change owners? did they? i don't know one way or the other and neither do you. its speculation at best and we all know you don't deal in speculation, especially when other people use it as an argument against you.
Wow are we going to make a rule that unless it is cast iron, concrete fact that it should not be on here? Could be interesting - I'll remind you of that in the future. I think its generally accepted by anyone and everyone that they tried (and as with the administration strategy) failed in their desired outcome. This was the prime objective and it backfired with catastrophic consequences for the club.
rejecting a CVA? ask yourself why where they in a position to reject the CVA, Oooo! that's right someone put the club in administration. remind me again who was that?
These two areas are not connected, I am not sure what you mean - I think the Oooo! comment shows emotion over practical debating ability or a curious attempt to do a Frank Spencer impression on a football forum. Either way the statement is idiotic and does not dignify a response.
charging 10 times the average rent? what is the average rent? where is your source?
We know that Forest, Ipswich, Swansea and Hull all were charged a tenth of our rent and I struggle to find many other council owned grounds in the Championship in the years we were charged the rent. That is my source - if there are others please let me know.
plus what is the average management fee's that clubs get charged? ours are double what the rent was and therefore a bigger financial burden on the club yet these never seem to concern you as much, infact i struggle to think of a single post where you even mention them let alone question them. still not to worry, they are not charged by ccc so surely cant be a real financial drain on the club.
Emotional and irrelevant other than to point out my beef with the council has long been before Sisu's tenure.
forcing the club to fund ACL in its infancy? care to elaborate? i would be interested to hear what brought you to this conclusion?
We paid their mortgage in its entirety and received a fraction of the benefit - not too hard a concept even for you to grasp.
offering subsequent reduced rental deals which when finer print is scrutinised appear not so attractive? they are moving in the right direction though and a good basis for negotiations to begin. instead sisu first of all said no offer had been made, David Conn made us aware that it was made through the FL, sisu then said that no direct offer had been made. at the end of the day its better than staying in Northampton playing to crowds of 2000 at best and hard to argue that it doesn't offer better financial rewards for the club. in other words it offers the club more revenue, isn't this what its supposed to be all about?
There are several strands of a debate here with little structure. The main point is that many of the offers claimed by ACL receive a rebuff from Sisu. Either way, the offers still fall below the clubs mentioned above and no club has ever been promoted to the Premiership with limited revenue streams. Go figure.
employing expensive PR companies to carefully word all their statements? hard to see how this works against CCFC but still i guess they needed to do something to counter the skills of 1 man PR machine ML.
Frankly if everyone was as gullible as you they could have employed Stuart Hall, Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris and you'd believe everything they say. I can only assume they believe there is a more sceptical audience to actually take the action they have. Either way many of their statements are as disingenuous as their adversary.
so apart from SP what have Sisu ever done for us?
BBC News said:A deal allowing Swansea City FC and the Ospreys rugby region to play at the Liberty Stadium is being investigated by the European Commission.
Swansea council has been asked to give details over funding arrangements at the council-owned stadium.
The commission is carrying out a Europe-wide investigation into state aid in sport.
......
If it is proved that the use of the Liberty Stadium breaks European law, then both clubs could face having to pay back money, plus interest.
What was the outcome of that case? Was she convicted of something?
What was the outcome of that case? Was she convicted of something?
Well, I too don't care if sisu regain their money or not. But I do care that this club get its finances in check - it's the only way we can survive long term. For that we need to own 'ACL', preferbly at the Ricoh but if that can't happen then a new stadium will have to do.
I agree that Igwe/Dulieu was a disaster, but the real damage under sisu was made by Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot. It was a fresh start with enough money and goodwill for them to achieve everything, but sadly they throw it all away.
You are aware that the Liberty Stadium deal is being investigated by the EU
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-25559959
Hull have the same arrangement.
Lol the ACL spin doctor keeps flapping away - do we know the outcome yet?. I think the EU investigation won't worry premier league Swansea. One things for sure a "Fair" rent will not be £1.2 million a year.
Your arguments really are intellectually bankrupt if you have to bring up the £1.2m rent.
Of course ML uses spin - just like each and every other stakeholder in this sad melodrama. Even posters on this board uses spin to beef up their stance.
Sisu may well lose the JR, but it gives them the platform to make public information that is otherwise protected by NDA's.
And that could prove to be just as valuable for them as actually winning the JR!
Lol the ACL spin doctor keeps flapping away - do we know the outcome yet?. I think the EU investigation won't worry premier league Swansea. One things for sure a "Fair" rent will not be £1.2 million a year.
Your arguments really are intellectually bankrupt if you have to bring up the £1.2m rent.
What is a fair rent? In the absence of an exact figure, one can only assume that the parties that signed the original agreement were of the opinion that 1,2 was fair - at the time. Any new rent deal will be considerably lower due to the circumstances. So why bother making a snide remark?
Your arguments really are intellectually bankrupt if you have to bring up the £1.2m rent.
Lol the ACL spin doctor keeps flapping away - do we know the outcome yet?. I think the EU investigation won't worry premier league Swansea. One things for sure a "Fair" rent will not be £1.2 million a year.
Both parties didn't agree with it - one had a smoking gun pointing at its head.
Yes of course and that smoking gun also stopped the club signing up to a sliding scale rent too, which would've helped the club should it not have achieved quick promotion back to the PL.
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