Should Oggy be released? (10 Viewers)

Paxman II · Mar 31, 2016

Now i know he is a legend in these parts but that should not alone secure you a job for life.

TM has varying issues around him. Some I believe could be the back room staff. Oggy is such a figure head and is steeped in the past of all managers gone before him. He rises to his feet and goes through the clip board of tactics like he has year in year out. Has TM lost some control in this area on a match by match basis? Oggy is the one consistent ever present under every recent manager and the failings. Has he allowed Oggy too much freedom due to his status at the club and the result is some undermining of TM's management and coaching ability?

Sometimes it's hard to release those that do a decent job but you know you would prefer to be elsewhere. TM should wrestle back full control of the match day regime and for that matter full coaching responsibilities if he is to stamp out some of the problems. I think it's time Oggy departed to pastures new or take up a different role at the club.

Or am I being too harsh on the legend?

oucho · Mar 31, 2016

Is there any basis at all for what you are suggesting i.e. Oggy being anything other than a helper to the keepers?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 31, 2016

Paxman II said:
Or am I being too harsh on the legend?

Is anything you've said rooted in any kind of reality?

Paxman II · Mar 31, 2016

oucho said:
Is there any basis at all for what you are suggesting i.e. Oggy being anything other than a helper to the keepers?

Are you 100% sure about that?

KG7 · Mar 31, 2016

This is crazy talk. A more logical reason to release Oggy is that, as our remaining FA Cup winner, he seems to have some sort of karmic ju ju over us. IE. We didn't get relegated while we had a player from the cup winning team in our playing ranks, yet the season he retired we went down. Ever since he's been on our coaching team we've been shit. Somehow releasing him might free us of the spell and begin our upward spiral again...

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Silence_Is_The_Enemy · Mar 31, 2016

I would question If oggy is stuck in his old ways with the goalkeeping training that video of Walsall training there keeper seemed to show that time has possibly passed oggy by the keepers sure as hell were not doing that sort of training when we saw them train last month.

WestEndAgro · Mar 31, 2016

Yes get rid, the only constant in years of decline.

Samo · Mar 31, 2016

IF ONLY... Oggy was the root of our problems. Better release the tea lady while we're at it.

wingy · Mar 31, 2016

How did it work When Andy Marshall was keeper and Sheamus Mcdonagh was coach.
If we're looking at timelines and the slide where dynamics changed there are three, possibly four candidates.
Defensive Injuries, the arrival of Can,JC and Jamie Clapham taking on a first team coaching role.

Edit :-CA not can.

Brylowes · Mar 31, 2016

FFS. It's Oggys fault now.

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Is anything you've said rooted in any kind of reality?

That he's a legend?

Otis · Mar 31, 2016

I think it is time for Oggy to go too.

Last bastion of the old guard.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not one for tittle tattle, so I will just say I think his time should be up now. Given it a go now for a long, long time.

Clean sweep, new broom. Some positivity needed.

Both RCC's and Burge's play (distribution and positionally) have been a bit suspect at times too this season.

wingy · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
I think it is time for Oggy to go too.

Last bastion of the old guard.

Anyone who knows me knows I am not one for tittle tattle, so I will just say I think his time should be up now. Given it a go now for a long, long time.

Clean sweep, new broom. Some positivity needed.

Both RCC's and Burge's play (distribution and positionally) have been a bit suspect at times too this season.

Nah I say he is a keeper.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 31, 2016

His ability or otherwise as goalkeeping coach is rather different to the picture painted by the OP, of him as a Rasputin like character twirling his beard, and being the true power behind the managerial throne.

higgs · Mar 31, 2016

Time to put him out to retirement now hes been there too long fresh blood needed

Samo · Mar 31, 2016

higgs said:
Time to put him out to retirement now hes been there too long fresh blood needed

Sorted for next season then. Really pleased we've identified the problem.
Jesus H Christ.

Samo · Mar 31, 2016

Paxman II said:
Now i know he is a legend in these parts but that should not alone secure you a job for life.

TM has varying issues around him. Some I believe could be the back room staff. Oggy is such a figure head and is steeped in the past of all managers gone before him. He rises to his feet and goes through the clip board of tactics like he has year in year out. Has TM lost some control in this area on a match by match basis? Oggy is the one consistent ever present under every recent manager and the failings. Has he allowed Oggy too much freedom due to his status at the club and the result is some undermining of TM's management and coaching ability?

Sometimes it's hard to release those that do a decent job but you know you would prefer to be elsewhere. TM should wrestle back full control of the match day regime and for that matter full coaching responsibilities if he is to stamp out some of the problems. I think it's time Oggy departed to pastures new or take up a different role at the club.

Or am I being too harsh on the legend?

Not even worthy of discussion.

Joy Division · Mar 31, 2016

Otis said:
Both RCC's and Burge's play (distribution and positionally) have been a bit suspect at times too this season.

Perhaps its the fact that they are both poor keepers, you can only work with what you've got. I don't reember people complaining too much when Westwood was our keeper, or Joe Murphy.

wingy · Mar 31, 2016

I guess it raises an interesting question but I'm struggling to answer.
Distribution under RCC compared to Burge,can anyone Clarify? Obviously it's simple enough to recall RCC's method but I'm buggered if I can recall Burge.
Is this the fifth variable /dynamic shift?

shmmeee · Apr 1, 2016

WestEndAgro said:
Yes get rid, the only constant in years of decline.

By that logic we should all fuck off too.

Paxman II · Apr 1, 2016

I think some are missing the point and readily leaping to his defense.
I don't have any agenda against Oggy but he has been the one constant at the club on the coaching staff. He clearly holds an important role in the coaching set up, not just as goal keeping coach. He is a fairly dominant figure on the touch line and shouts his tactical orders throughout a match. Just saying that seems a little odd when we should be seeing TM more vocal? Is the issue that Oggy is respected too much and no one wants to upset him or is it that TM and others before him are willing to let him have such influence? Yes his touchline 'coaching' might be under the directive of the manager but how the message is interpreted by the players would suggest the managers coaching ability is lost in translation.
We have also had some poor goal keepers under his watch or should that be goalkeepers that fail to show significant improvement?

Quite a few on here agreed with a change last year when I mentioned it then. Another year and the goalkeepers are poor and the team has tailed off into relegation form. Not all Oggy's doing no doubt but his influence is too coincidental for me.

Wyken Sky Blue · Apr 1, 2016

Joy Division said:
Perhaps its the fact that they are both poor keepers, you can only work with what you've got. I don't reember people complaining too much when Westwood was our keeper, or Joe Murphy.

RCC isn't that bad, would have him as first choice next season.

Burge on the other hand...

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steve82 · Apr 1, 2016

Not so sure we could look at oggy being a issue as of his stature at the club. Think if TM wanted to over rule him it would be no issue. I do agree that I'd like to see TM or JC doing more of the tactical stuff on the sidelines, preparing the subs and getting them fired up.
As for oggy the keeper coach, I think it's more the tools for the job on this... RCC is one who's developing for the future and has come on as the season has progressed in a team where the defences has offered little protection and rarely been settled still has his flaws but progress can be seen. Burge is a very average keeper who has possibly reached his limit in his development and will likely fall down the leagues like most of our young keepers that get released from us and drop out the game.
Could you argue that he's not developing them or just the last few over the last 15 years just not good enough to make a career. Some of the top of my head are Montgomery, Ireland, quirke and tuffy being the only one who played in Scotland if I'm correct. (Happy to be corrected on any of them tho)
He's done reasonably well developing Westwood and keeping Murphy on his toes.
I'd keep him on a little longer also he's the last bit of the club who has anything sky blue about him.

Otis · Apr 1, 2016

Joy Division said:
Perhaps its the fact that they are both poor keepers, you can only work with what you've got. I don't reember people complaining too much when Westwood was our keeper, or Joe Murphy.

But wouldn't Oggy have then reported to Mowbray and told him that neither keeper were good enough to warrant a first team place yet?

TM would then have got a keeper in.

You have to assume that Oggy DID tell TM it was okay to go with these two keepers. Mowbray didn't look for a keeper in the pre-season seemingly.

Either Oggy told Mowbray the two were up for it and TM took his word on that and/or agreed with him.

Or

Oggy said they weren't quite ready, but Mowbray ignored him?

steve82 · Apr 9, 2016

How could oggy name 6 loan players. Shocking...... Lol

dongonzalos · Apr 9, 2016

Ah I understand the oggy jokes now

steve82 · Apr 9, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Ah I understand the oggy jokes now

It's all oggys fault.... Lol

skybluegod · Apr 9, 2016

Joy Division said:
Perhaps its the fact that they are both poor keepers, you can only work with what you've got. I don't reember people complaining too much when Westwood was our keeper, or Joe Murphy.

I remember half of the bloody forum complaining about Joe Murphy, all calling for Chris Dunn to have a chance. All blamed Oggy then too.

Glen · Apr 9, 2016

Everyone at club is useless don't blame oggy

stevefloyd · Apr 9, 2016

I agree get rid of him thanks for your service but time to go

Terry Gibson's perm · Apr 9, 2016

Something has to change in the back room maybe this is a good way to do it, years should if Stachan would have sacked Pendry we would have had a better chance of stopping up

Hobo · Apr 9, 2016

Paxman II said:
Now i know he is a legend in these parts but that should not alone secure you a job for life.

TM has varying issues around him. Some I believe could be the back room staff. Oggy is such a figure head and is steeped in the past of all managers gone before him. He rises to his feet and goes through the clip board of tactics like he has year in year out. Has TM lost some control in this area on a match by match basis? Oggy is the one consistent ever present under every recent manager and the failings. Has he allowed Oggy too much freedom due to his status at the club and the result is some undermining of TM's management and coaching ability?

Sometimes it's hard to release those that do a decent job but you know you would prefer to be elsewhere. TM should wrestle back full control of the match day regime and for that matter full coaching responsibilities if he is to stamp out some of the problems. I think it's time Oggy departed to pastures new or take up a different role at the club.

Or am I being too harsh on the legend?

Having read this post it is either total fiction without facts or is just spurious speculation.

I don't know anything about Oggys abilities as a coach or backroom staff, I have no knowledge of his working practices or influence; but you certainly haven't brought anything to the table to even suggest, let alone evidence, why he should be sacked.

chiefdave · Apr 9, 2016

Hobo said:
I don't know anything about Oggys abilities as a coach or backroom staff, I have no knowledge of his working practices or influence

Same here but what I look at is multiple managers and owners have been and gone and they have all retained his services. That says to me he's doing a decent job. Also in the last few years with the likes of Westwood and Murphy goalkeeping has been one area we haven't really had to worry about.

The only thing I know about his coaching is that when we scored from a free kick earlier in the season I remember whoever it was who scored saying it was something they'd been working on at the training ground with Oggy.

letsallsingtogether · Apr 9, 2016

Paxman II said:
I think some are missing the point and readily leaping to his defense.
I don't have any agenda against Oggy but he has been the one constant at the club on the coaching staff. He clearly holds an important role in the coaching set up, not just as goal keeping coach. He is a fairly dominant figure on the touch line and shouts his tactical orders throughout a match. Just saying that seems a little odd when we should be seeing TM more vocal? Is the issue that Oggy is respected too much and no one wants to upset him or is it that TM and others before him are willing to let him have such influence? Yes his touchline 'coaching' might be under the directive of the manager but how the message is interpreted by the players would suggest the managers coaching ability is lost in translation.
We have also had some poor goal keepers under his watch or should that be goalkeepers that fail to show significant improvement?

Quite a few on here agreed with a change last year when I mentioned it then. Another year and the goalkeepers are poor and the team has tailed off into relegation form. Not all Oggy's doing no doubt but his influence is too coincidental for me.

Well it is the same old problem as I see it given shit keepers to coach sorry but you can't make players any better then they are doesn't matter who coaches them.
we have 2 very weak keepers and until that is a dressed you can blame who ever you want...........

Oggy for a knighthood I say having to work with such dross.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 9, 2016

letsallsingtogether said:
Well it is the same old problem as I see it given shit keepers to coach sorry but you can't make players any better then they are doesn't matter who coaches them.
we have 2 very weak keepers and until that is a dressed you can blame who ever you want...........

Oggy for a knighthood I say having to work with such dross.

Wouldn't have even minded so much if the OP was about his ability to coach keepers or not.

As opposed to being speculative bollocks.

Should Oggy be released? (10 Viewers)

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