Should Rasputin be banned? (2 Viewers)

Should Rasputin be banned?


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Nick

Administrator
Read bacl on it....the winding up petotion was a thread to wind up the company unless the due debt was paid.

This really is not a case of shades of grey with faults on all sides. There is only one party in the wrong and that is Sisu. I get that loyal fans of CCFC cannot see that so clearly but as a more recent fan with no link to the city, i feel I see this more indepebdently than mothatI would ask why any fan would NOT be happy to see Sisu lose in court?

Yet you are more passionate about a lease than "loyal fans" with links to the city?

If leases are your thing as well as right and wrongs, which others have you celebrated recently?

The whole thread has got even weirder. We just need AndreasB to make an appearance or wrenstreetcarpark.
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Sad news about the sofa, but absolutely nothing to do with it or relevant to the situation.

I am surprised to see somebody who started supporting the club in your way recently with no links to the city so passionate about it, yes. Especially with more passion than the actual football.

There are court cases every day about people breaking agreements. Those little bastards breaking their agreements off with Wonga and payday loans are quite common.

OK be surprised. You asked me for my reasoning and I have given these. Regarding your first sentence, the "nothing to do with our situation" , let me be clear....that whole fiasco left me with a real anger of the kind of "rip up the contract, fuck the creditors, start again" merchants pf which Sisu are an example.

Mrs Oucho and her colleagues were also owed 4 months pay by their boss who killed the company and the contracts, ealked away from his obligations, started again the next day and offered them yheir jobs but no back pay. Another shark. Things like that hit hard, it's the behaviour and the disdain that get me.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Bollocks, the contract was fair. There was NO judtification to somply stop paying. It was a deliberate attempt to bankrupt ACL, as noted by the JR1 judge. Read his verdict and weep. I would support any action where Sisu got their commupance for that act, it was shameful.

I wanted those tossers to go bust
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Yet you are more passionate about a lease than "loyal fans" with links to the city?

If leases are your thing as well as right and wrongs, which others have you celebrated recently?

The whole thread has got even weirder. We just need AndreasB to make an appearance or wrenstreetcarpark.

I am passionatr about it but if you'vr you have seen my celebtating whe we score abd get angry when wrplay shot, you'll seea fuckload of passion. Don't say I don't care about our club as it is not the case. Hundreds of games attended and years working for a fans group show this. As npted above i have personal issues with shark lile behaviour which I choose not to overlook simply due to CCFC loyalty.
 

Nick

Administrator
OK be surprised. You asked me for my reasoning and I have given these. Regarding your first sentence, the "nothing to do with our situation" , let me be clear....that whole fiasco left me with a real anger of the kind of "rip up the contract, fuck the creditors, start again" merchants pf which Sisu are an example.

Mrs Oucho and her colleagues were also owed 4 months pay by their boss who killed the company and the contracts, ealked away from his obligations, started again the next day and offered them yheir jobs but no back pay. Another shark. Things like that hit hard, it's the behaviour and the disdain that get me.

So it's a morals thing about rights and wrongs?

Which other cases have you been following recently of agreements being broken?

Again, your examples aren't really the same thing. It's more somebody locked in with a Loan Shark agreement than your mrs having a job agreement.
 

Nick

Administrator
I am passionatr about it but if you'vr you have seen my celebtating whe we score abd get angry when wrplay shot, you'll seea fuckload of passion. Don't say I don't care about our club as it is not the case. Hundreds of games attended and years working for a fans group show this. As npted above i have personal issues with shark lile behaviour which I choose not to overlook simply due to CCFC loyalty.

Shark like wanting to standing outside schools hassling kids? Needing 3 accounts to try and push a viewpoint that were rarely about football? Still don't see your point.

It's funny, there's been so much shit said on here and the only time somebody has got in touch with me about a post was the ones about hassling Fisher's kids at school. That's not the behaviour of somebody who just has a passing interest is it?
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
So it's a morals thing about rights and wrongs?

Which other cases have you been following recently of agreements being broken?

Again, your examples aren't really the same thing. It's more somebody locked in with a Loan Shark agreement than your mrs having a job agreement.

It's the same thing. It is reneging on an agreement.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
OK be surprised. You asked me for my reasoning and I have given these. Regarding your first sentence, the "nothing to do with our situation" , let me be clear....that whole fiasco left me with a real anger of the kind of "rip up the contract, fuck the creditors, start again" merchants pf which Sisu are an example.

Mrs Oucho and her colleagues were also owed 4 months pay by their boss who killed the company and the contracts, ealked away from his obligations, started again the next day and offered them yheir jobs but no back pay. Another shark. Things like that hit hard, it's the behaviour and the disdain that get me.

If it was a normal business and wasn’t being artificially funded it would have gone bust anyway. You may have failed to notice (actually probably don’t know) that the club went bust before due to this absurd rent.

The fact you think it was fair shows you are at best a clueless moron
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Shark like wanting to standing outside schools hassling kids? Needing 3 accounts to try and push a viewpoint that were rarely about football? Still don't see your point.

How many times do you want to drag that up? A comment made unseriously,taken seriously, and banned without warning.

Also funny how this kind of commebt comes up when you want to discredit someone. You asked my reasons, I've given them. Rather than accept that, you have asnide dig. Nice one.
 

Nick

Administrator
It's the same thing. It is reneging on an agreement.

So you think if somebody had literally no other option at all and had to take out a stupid agreement where they get absolutely rinsed or go bust that's OK?
 

Nick

Administrator
How many times do you want to drag that up? A comment made unseriously,taken seriously, and banned without warning.

Also funny how this kind of commebt comes up when you want to discredit someone. You asked my reasons, I've given them. Rather than accept that, you have asnide dig. Nice one.

Oh it was taken seriously. That sort of thing doesn't require a warning.

This comment is coming up because you are talking about being a saviour of rights and wrongs. It's not really snide.

It's like me preaching about never going to watch Wasps and then me posting that I'd been and it was great. Oh, wait.
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
If it was a normal business and wasn’t being artificially funded it would have gone bust anyway. You may have failed to notice (actually probably don’t know) that the club went bust before due to this absurd rent.

The fact you think it was fair shows you are at best a clueless moron

Clueless moron eho knows the club signed up the rent in order to gey the stadium built, the reneged on their side of the deal just in order to get the stadium for a fraction of the build cost. Read the JR1 verdict.
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Oh it was taken seriously. That sort of thing doesn't require a warning.

This comment is coming up because you are talking about being a saviour of rights and wrongs.
Well it wasn't mean seriously so yoy can wind it in now.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Clueless moron eho knows the club signed up the rent in order to gey the stadium built, the reneged on their side of the deal just in order to get the stadium for a fraction of the build cost. Read the JR1 verdict.

You seem confused. How much have wasps paid for the stadium - you know that club you accidentally go to sometimes when your girlfriend is working at a service station 25 miles away
 

Nick

Administrator
Clueless moron eho knows the club signed up the rent in order to gey the stadium built, the reneged on their side of the deal just in order to get the stadium for a fraction of the build cost. Read the JR1 verdict.

As opposed the the Rugby club you went to support that moved their team to get a stadium for a fraction of the build costs?

It's like moaning about the bloke that tries to mug you and knocks you over and then shaking hands with the bloke who has taken your wallet , keys and car while you are on the floor isn't it? Then proceeding to defend him to the hilt for it.

Weird.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
I actually do know Oucho - wander if his alter egos will be there too the next time we catch up.

It's quite good living nowhere near Cov as I know no-one from on here so have zero expectations of anyone. I've only had message convos with a couple of well known posters over a chat I had with Anderson and when one of them kindly let me buy their tickets for the MK Dons cup game. And another well known poster has found me on FB and messaged me so I know what he's like...normal!

Next game I come to, likely to be Nov/Dec time, I'm arranging a SBT drink in the casino beforehand to see if you match my mental images of you and so I can confirm you're all wierdos.
 

Nick

Administrator
It's quite good living nowhere near Cov as I know no-one from on here so have zero expectations of anyone. I've only had message convos with a couple of well known posters over a chat I had with Anderson and when one of them kindly let me buy their tickets for the MK Dons cup game. And another well known poster has found me on FB and messaged me so I know what he's like...normal!

Next game I come to, likely to be Nov/Dec time, I'm arranging a SBT drink in the casino beforehand to see if you match my mental images of you and so I can confirm you're all wierdos.

Yeah they have those really tall bar stools in the Casino. Good thinking!
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
It's quite good living nowhere near Cov as I know no-one from on here so have zero expectations of anyone. I've only had message convos with a couple of well known posters over a chat I had with Anderson and when one of them kindly let me buy their tickets for the MK Dons cup game. And another well known poster has found me on FB and messaged me so I know what he's like...normal!

Next game I come to, likely to be Nov/Dec time, I'm arranging a SBT drink in the casino beforehand to see if you match my mental images of you and so I can confirm you're all wierdos.
You should never meet your heroes, they'll only disappoint.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
The contract was the equivalent of a dodgy landlord forcing a tenant to pay fortunes for something they had no access rights to for most of the year. Sisu have made few achievements but one is breaking that stupid lease.

Ranson should have done it on day one and bought the council and their dumb sidekick to their knees.

The fault for that is neither with the council or SISU - it's with Bryan Richardson for agreeing the stupidly overinflated rent on HR before we'd built (or even started working on the site of) a new stadium.

Imagine just for a second you're a Coventry council tax payer but not a Coventry City fan. You learn that the council will be using it's financial capabilities to help a football club with debts and a history of poor finances build a new stadium. Yet same said council say they can't get money to run basic services. You're not going to be happy. Then later you learn that said club can't afford to pay back the money for said new stadium, and despite newer facilities and twice the capacity, it is to be rented for less than their old, dilapidated one. You'd be furious. In fact, if they'd charged less they'd be far more of a case for state-aid than SISU have put forward in court themselves.

Now put your Sky Blue specs back on and imagine for a second that after that meeting when the council agreed to help fund the Arena they instead come out and said "actually no, this is a private matter and we're not getting involved". How would you have felt? The CT would've been awash with demands for councillors' resignations and claiming they don't care about the area and how vital the club is to local community and economy etc.

Now imagine you're a councillor. Either way you can't win. Even if you're a Sky Blues fan you know you can't get away with charging less than what the club are currently paying so you go as low as you think you can get away with - the same amount they're paying for HR, even then knowing some people will complain. In fact I remember a few letters for tax payers in the CT at the time demanding to know why the council weren't charging MORE given how much bigger and better equipped the new stadium was compared to the old.

Then when the club realised it couldn't afford to pay the council back again the council has a problem - don't help and face the wrath of CCFC fans, do help and face the backlash of non CCFC fans. So again they tried to annoy everyone as little as possible by agreeing to take on the financial burden but renting the stadium to the club and setting in place a formula for which the club could buy the stadium later if finances improved.

When SISU took over maybe they could/should have renegotiated the rental deal beforehand, but time pressures, a belief that the club could achieve the break-even attendance of 20k and/or a belief that you'd be buying said stadium in a year or two anyway meant you didn't. Hindsight is wonderful and I'm sure they wished now they'd just bought the stadium outright at the formula price as it'd have been cheaper, plus they'd have had the income of the last ten years and not had the huge legal expenses either..

When SISU did try to re-negotiate, the council didn't take it seriously enough to start with, possibly due to the reasoning as to why the rent was set at that particular level set out above. However, the complete refusal by SISU to pay ANYTHING, rather than paying a reduced amount you felt was fair to push those negotiations along without creating too much animosity, just escalated the problem and made it look like SISU were actively trying to put the stadium under financial duress to try and make it go out of business so you could buy it cheap. Being a hedge fund renowned for buying and stripping failing businesses really didn't help their cause.

Since then it's been pretty much trench warfare with a complete lack of faith and trust on either side. SISU have moved goalposts in terms of what they want (cheaper rent - no, buying the leasehold - no, unencumbered freehold) and neverending legal action that seems to contradict their own earlier arguments they've done very little to ease the situation to a conclusion. The council selling the stadium to Wasps wasn't done very professionally at all.

All that could've been avoided if Richardson hadn't agreed to rent back our old stadium at a frankly ridiculous rate.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
How would a winding up petition "get the rent" especially when it was a company with limited assets to liquidate?

I think it was a misplaced scare tactic to get them to pay up, forgetting SISU are used to these kind of tricks themselves. I'm sure it works pretty effectively for things like rates/council tax etc.

I've been in places whereby an outstanding bill for months has been ignored, you send out the letter informing them you're taking legal action and lo and behold, it's paid almost immediately. Loads of businesses (and indeed people) will leave off paying bills until such time as either legal action is taken or supply is refused.

I doubt they intended to actually go ahead with it, knowing the club had debts and they'd be pretty low on the list to be paid even if they got to choose an administrator and the backlash of the City fans.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
After everything Sisu have put us through, why are you so surprised to see a fam passionately wantinf to see them lose their own spurious courtcase? It's both good karma and funny. They're in the wrong, any mug can see that. It is human nature to want to see the bad guys lose.

In further answer, there is a bit of a persobal dimension for me. Years ago when I was a youbg lad, the parents didn't have much cash and spent a big chunk of it on a new three piece suite of sofas for our home. When the dekivery day came and went, they made enquiries. Turned out the furniture co had ceased trading quietly, lost the debt and contracts, then started out as a newco from the same premises witg the same stock. They told my parents to whistle for the money and the sofas. The family took a huge hit financially but the bigger issue was thr arrogamce with which someone could walk away from an agreement with total disdain, arrogance and disregard. Galling.

Very common practice - it been in the news this week about how to stop it but it's been going round and round for decades and little gets done and those that do it soon find loopholes.

Seen it done numerous times with various businesses, especially in things like clubs and security firms. Usually it's to get out of tax bills rather than anything but it's always a case of what am I legally required to do rather than what is right and proper. But the people running businesses have far more money and financial clout so get loads of political influence to sway things in their favour legislation-wise.
 

Nick

Administrator
Sorry mate. That post wasn't aimed at you.

Awks....

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Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member

Grendel

Well-Known Member
The salient point is that sisu have paid more in rent than Wasps paid for ACL with a 200 year lease extension
 

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