stupot07
Well-Known Member
http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2014/10/08/the-ricoh-arena-q-as
they also want money so they can stop shopping at Lidl...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...rena-was-only-way-to-secure-clubs-future.html
Should wasps buy ccfc? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter sisu go home
- Start date
http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/article/2014/10/08/the-ricoh-arena-q-as
they also want money so they can stop shopping at Lidl...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...rena-was-only-way-to-secure-clubs-future.html
This is idea that Wasps buy the club and we'll all skip off to the promised land is a bit silly. This club was losing money hand over fist averaging 21,000. I'm not sure, even with half ownership (that's what it would be in effect), the club could flourish without a major injection of cash (and who knows if they have those sort of resources).
It would be a very hard sell to Wasps fans as well. They have justified a very unpopular move on the basis thay they now have their own stadium (after years in the wilderness) - but could they effectively just give half of it away in a revenue share with another sports club without causing further uproar amongst their own followers?
How would it work practically anyway? How would they channel profits from ACL down to the two clubs, would it be a 50/50 split, would that be fair? What if one club got into trouble, would funds from the other then have to be diverted? How would we feel about that? There would be a massive conflict of interests.
Not totally against the idea, just don't think it will happen in a million years.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Because hedge funds are successfull,brilliant hard nosed business people who know what they're doing and take loss making companies and make them.....
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
What we really need is to be owned by some ruthless businessmen prepared to move teams around the country on a whim...
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What could he now do to Coventry that would make him worse than SISU? One thing that does make him better is that he actually managed to buy our home ground. Another thing that makes him better is that he seems to be able to attract a major sponsor.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Theres a big difference between moving to enable the team to survive and moving to line your own pockets.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I thought we owned by ruthless business men and this was the thing that was going finally sort Coventry City out.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
This is utter, utter bollocks.
Please tell me why a team can't survive anywhere other in the country than Coventry? If that's the case, why isn't Coventry awash with sports clubs?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Indeed...
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I am also confused I thought the football and the ownership of ACL had to be combined or else we have no future?
Bloody hell this gets confusing by the day. So it that only the case if it involves the owners if the football club buying ACL as oppose to the owners of ACL buying the football club?
Bloody hell this gets confusing by the day. So it that only the case if it involves the owners if the football club buying ACL as oppose to the owners of ACL buying the football club?
skybluefred
New Member
Not only where we founding members of the Premiership we also stayed there for 34 years,we might have filled Highfield Rd a few times
but how many times was this magical 30,000 in the Ricoh seen.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I don't have too. Just read the Wasps justification.
Why don't you tell Sisu they fucked up and tell them to piss off?
Stop blaming Wasps for our owners disaster.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
We are getting there we have nicked a top ice hockey team and a top rugby team.
I don't think Manchester is maximising its profits by having two top teams in such close proximity.
As soon as HS2 is built watch this space...
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You appear to be spouting absolute nonsense.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
.... and you have buried your head in the sand.
sisu go home
New Member
Don't make this confusing. Do you want the owners of the stadium to also own the football club so that we don't pay rent and we get much more of the revenue we create. Do you want someone other than Sisu in? Do you want the owners of a premiership rugby club to take on a shitty division one club? Okay then.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
there is only 1 top team in Manchester.....the other one is in Salford.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You really are a clueless moron aren't you.
Perhaps you would care to point out how not wanting ruthless businessmen out for a profit motive makes me pro SISU?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
those are all separate questions and not necessarily interlinked.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I never said you were.
You and others keep going on about Wasps even though the blame lies somewhere else.
Why do people get personal when they start to struggle in discussions?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Going on about Wasps?
What, like saying I don't want Wasps as owners in a thread that asks do you want Wasps as owners?
I get personal to you because you're an absolute tool who got personal to and about others not so long ago, and now you do a complete about turn and do everything you abused others for.
I also get personal because you're a clueless moron.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It would have to be the Salford one as they would be using hs2 to get to the Ricoh from London
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
From your bigoted views I take that as a compliment !!!
It really isn't that difficult to understand. The owners of ACL buying the football club would make sense IF those owners did not also own a rugby club, especially when they purchased the Ricoh with the sole intention of channeling profits from the stadium into said Rugby club in order to cover its massive losses. How would buying the football club benefit the rugby club? Well it wouldn't. Firstly they'd have to part with a substantial amount of cash to wrestle control from the current owners, and then it's hardly as though the two clubs could merge. Both would operate as distinct businesses, both probably losing money, certainly CCFC which would suck cash from ACL to cover those losses. Again, how would that benefit the rugby club which would previously have taken all those stadium revenues. It is not going to happen. If that's all we have to cling on to then we are truly fucked. CCFC is not viable, nobody will see us as a business opportunity, so our only hope is that somebody seriously rich treats us as some sort of vanity project.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
This is a joke, right?
SiSU said they had to leave the Ricoh for the sake of our future. You believe that now then?
SiSU said they had to leave the Ricoh for the sake of our future. You believe that now then?
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I can't say I've looked into wasps finances deep enough to pass comment on their situation. I do know however that when SISU said it there was no merit in their course of action. It only exacerbated the situation, it did jack shit to improve our finances and anyone with half a brain could see this before it happened. So I don't believe them when they said that they did it for financial reasons and I couldn't care either way about wasps motives but if the reason wasps have given is factual it doesn't all of a sudden mean that SISU's reason/excuse now is also. It was bullshit when they said it and it's bullshit now.
Bill Glazier
Active Member
Are Wasps planning to take out the sky blue seats and fit yellow and black ones? A genuine question!
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Derek Richardson the Wasp owner said he wasn't prepared to put 3million into the club every year anymore. There are 16 matches I believe some of which will attract well over 20000 gates plus there are European games, at £20 a head, if they can double their current gate plus those high attendance matches you can see why he opted to move them.
By the way I haven't voted.
By the way I haven't voted.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Their initial statement was that they would not be because it costs alot of money.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Your deluded if you think we need to move away from the Ricoh.
Why do you think Sisu moved us to Northampton ? (You can consult the JR minutes if you require help with your answer)
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
This is the exact line that the militias on this site used to use against anyone who dared speak out against sisu when they first came in.
Probably people like 'italia' in fact.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
All hedge funds are not the same, you are naive if you think any different.
Some are more professional than others.
The initial Sisu plan was to push for the Premier League (Operation Premiership), get there quickly, take up the ACL 100% option and sell at a big profit.
We all liked that plan. However ........
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
As CCFC stands now I don't know who would take on that amount of risk to be honest.
It would require the settlement or writing off of the loans outstanding (that would be the 13m+ in respect of Otium because you would not need to purchase SBS&L and its £28m+ loans). Not a small sum even so and ARVO who are the main creditors would require value in the settlement I would think not a write off. You would also need to deal with the charges ARVO and SBS&L hold over the CCFC assets such as they are. What do you get for taking on that level of liability? not a lot really and it is going to take a lot of investment to improve team performance and thereby its income streams - so its not just about buying it there is also working capital needed.
If CCFC go elsewhere and Wasps really want a football team of its own I would suggest its probably cheaper to form their own and build it up - leaving aside whether it would get fan support.
If you look at the last financials (2013)for Wasps the total income divided by total number of crowd for season gives a figure of approx. £56 do the same calculation for CCFC and it is just short of £20. Bit simplistic I know but it does indicate that Wasps are best focussing on building their own crowd numbers rather than investing in CCFC. They would get to the same income CCFC brings in per match by increasing their average crowd by 3200 per game over the average crowd in the 2013 accounts for Wasps (that's in total an increase to approx. 10,000 spectators per game). Is that possible? it does not seem big figures really especially when "local" derbies for them would now include Leicester and Northampton where they could expect upwards of 20k for each when previously 10k was maximum at Adams Park.
That extra 3200 would wipe out the £3m annual losses and takes no account of new sponsorship, new advertising and the fact that Wasps got very little of the matchday incomes at Adams Park (wont be the case at the Ricoh I suspect)
They might be interested in CCFC but I don't think it is a must have for Wasps. Like it or not the numbers have to stack up and there are options as to how you get to the numbers that do not include CCFC and its high risk
It would require the settlement or writing off of the loans outstanding (that would be the 13m+ in respect of Otium because you would not need to purchase SBS&L and its £28m+ loans). Not a small sum even so and ARVO who are the main creditors would require value in the settlement I would think not a write off. You would also need to deal with the charges ARVO and SBS&L hold over the CCFC assets such as they are. What do you get for taking on that level of liability? not a lot really and it is going to take a lot of investment to improve team performance and thereby its income streams - so its not just about buying it there is also working capital needed.
If CCFC go elsewhere and Wasps really want a football team of its own I would suggest its probably cheaper to form their own and build it up - leaving aside whether it would get fan support.
If you look at the last financials (2013)for Wasps the total income divided by total number of crowd for season gives a figure of approx. £56 do the same calculation for CCFC and it is just short of £20. Bit simplistic I know but it does indicate that Wasps are best focussing on building their own crowd numbers rather than investing in CCFC. They would get to the same income CCFC brings in per match by increasing their average crowd by 3200 per game over the average crowd in the 2013 accounts for Wasps (that's in total an increase to approx. 10,000 spectators per game). Is that possible? it does not seem big figures really especially when "local" derbies for them would now include Leicester and Northampton where they could expect upwards of 20k for each when previously 10k was maximum at Adams Park.
That extra 3200 would wipe out the £3m annual losses and takes no account of new sponsorship, new advertising and the fact that Wasps got very little of the matchday incomes at Adams Park (wont be the case at the Ricoh I suspect)
They might be interested in CCFC but I don't think it is a must have for Wasps. Like it or not the numbers have to stack up and there are options as to how you get to the numbers that do not include CCFC and its high risk
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
So you fully support the move by Wimbledon to Milton Keynes on that logic.