I was eleven in 87
Well-Known Member
CCFC fans 'must support team to get Sisu to leave' - Simon Jordan
(Think I might wear two crash helmets today!!)
(Think I might wear two crash helmets today!!)
Simon Jordan Interview- Part 3. (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter I was eleven in 87
- Start date
Bob Latchford
Well-Known Member
I wonder why he's suddenly popped up ? maybe Joy / Timmy are pals of his ??
Nick
Administrator
Because he tweeted about the situation like he does a lot about football and it went from there to a 3 parter
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
He talks a lot of sense though and seems to know a lot more than the average fan.
Part three was just as good as other parts imo. What did he say that was wrong? Not a lot for me for a man who has nothing to do with ccfc he seems to know a lot.
He knows hedge funds to and he said why sisu aren't going. They are not going anywhere because their massive loss would be crystallized. Good point. He said fans need to come back and support the club and therefore give money to the club.
There are potential buyers which there most likely are and basically sisu need to get back to reinvesting in the team and get the club back up the football pyramid and then it would be worth more. Makes sense.
The big problem is it isn't happening and if/when we are relegated to league 2 it's even harder to sell again. Very Worrying times.
Part three was just as good as other parts imo. What did he say that was wrong? Not a lot for me for a man who has nothing to do with ccfc he seems to know a lot.
He knows hedge funds to and he said why sisu aren't going. They are not going anywhere because their massive loss would be crystallized. Good point. He said fans need to come back and support the club and therefore give money to the club.
There are potential buyers which there most likely are and basically sisu need to get back to reinvesting in the team and get the club back up the football pyramid and then it would be worth more. Makes sense.
The big problem is it isn't happening and if/when we are relegated to league 2 it's even harder to sell again. Very Worrying times.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
He's got a book to sell
Bob Latchford
Well-Known Member
This !
Nick
Administrator
What does he know about our situation compared to the average fan though?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Because he tweeted about the situation like he does a lot about football and it went from there to a 3 parter
City fans desperate for hope and journalists desperate for copy is a hell of a combo.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You tell us. You're the one always going on about fans talking nonsense on the CT site, twitter etc.
Nick
Administrator
From his comments he doesn't know much at all about our actual situation.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
As a whole, the 5m he apparently said we should be getting from tickets, the 1m profit he doesn't seem to realise is before tax etc.
He basically just suggests throwing money at the squad to get to the premier league, no mention of how or where. No mention of ffp etc.
skybluedan
Well-Known Member
I mean did that not get us in the shit in the first place ? Throwing money and I mean where has this guy just come from ? From saying he once looked at us ? A fuckin farce the whole lot them , a book , name in spotlight , and a 3 parter wow ..... Is this that giblet again ? If it is or the ct , should be ashamed of themselves
skybluedan
Well-Known Member
A horrible fuckin combo
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
You do realize the club won't be paying any tax on that profit?
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fair enough but I don't see it like that. It seems an honest enough article. He mentioned about fans need to turn up and support the club also which is true.
Nick
Administrator
I didn't say they were, I was saying it wasnt 1m profit as it's ebit isn't it?
Super Graham Withey
Well-Known Member
Oh yes he does. He has it bang on. SISU are still here because they do not wish to crystallise their loss in CCFC. Until they do we're knackered.
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
Ebit is earnings before interest and tax. The tax is zero. Interest paid will also be zero as SISU claim to have not taken any interest.
Nick
Administrator
Yes, but it Won't be a £1m profit in the accounts will it? Which was my point. It is likely to be interest accrued.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
To be fair, not really. We got fucked by several circumstances (stadium, relegation, ITV digital collapse) that were a perfect storm. Without wanting to go all Richardson, there's questionable evidendce the debt was as bad as some make out and who it was owed to. We certainly overspent, but it didn't screw us on its own.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I think it all boils down to this. They are never going to get their money back. Until they realize this and accept a realistic offer it will just decline and decline.
They are still here only because no one is willing to match sisus asking price. Simple as that.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
When they say they are going & give a specific written date - maybe people will flood back?
So if they really want to go - let them announce it & tell people they will go as soon as they reach their target...& if they say they need 100000 fans to pay before they go - 4 games & they might well be ready!
...onwards & upwards PUSB
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Like the latest piece where he says if fans turn up we can be successful. We know there's a good chance of that working at L1, or L2 if it comes to it, level but when we get in to the championship even with large crowds we have less revenue than pretty much every other team.
He's actually saying exactly what Fisher said yet those who hate Fisher are hailing Jordan as the bright light at the end of the tunnel!
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Income tax and NI has to be paid, that is approx 25% of £5M wages bill, anyway it should be approx break even. Interest on loans will be accrued and take the losses recorded to approx £1.5M.
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singers_pore
Well-Known Member
NI is not an income tax. Income tax will be zero because the club has millions in accumulated NOLs. As you say interest will be accrued but not paid unless SISU are willing to show everyone they are actually taking money out the club.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Income tax has to be paid, corporation tax is what is paid on profits, there won't be any of that as there are substantial net operating losses. Last accounts had £614K income tax & NI.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There will be interest on loans in the accounts, just because its not been paid out doesn't mean its written off. People seem to be under the impression that the £1m is somehow spare. Even if it wasn't EBIT and was actually profit it still wouldn't mean we have £1m to spend as it would depend on cashflow.
I think to Fischer the £1m 'profit' is cash flow surplus. Probably mostly due to part-payments from previously sold players. It may not be EBIT result or even traceable in the next P&L statements - just positive cash flow.
It's more interesting how Sisu is going to use it. Will they demand down payment on the loans or leave it with the club?
The Trust should ask Fischer for clarification.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
There is still £530K of last seasons emergency loan owed to ARVO, there is a note in the accounts to record £250K that some of it was paid back when Maddison was sold, but that fell outside the accounting period, so clearly paying this back is high priority. The note is shown below.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Leaving aside the comments on tax, which are not strictly accurate, the interview doesnt give any great insight as far as i can see. It is comments that many on here have said in the past but this time it is given a "name" so that is supposed to give it more weight - however there would seem to be some glaring misunderstandings
I assume when he looked at it three years ago he is was sniffing a potential bargain in the administration process. Perversly the expectation on sale price is higher than it was then
Yes he understands football as it was conducted at Crystal Palace that is not the same as understanding how it works at CCFC. There are general principles yes but most people understand those. At best some of what he has said counter balances things said by others equally qualified.
The 1m profit is after player sales but before interest that is charged on the ARVO/SISU investor loans. Doesnt matter that it isnt paid over the club is loss making as per its profit & loss account which is what Simon Gilbert references. it doesnt make £1m profit which is what the average fan will expect to see. In any case it is the cashflow that is important not the profit. If it doesnt make a cashflow surplus of £1m it wont have £1m to reinvest in the team.
The £70m. It doesnt exist. There is nothing in the accounts that shows it ever existed. So his comments on this are based on a false premise. Also relates it back to 9 years and to 2000. Surely every one understands that yes we got ourselves in a mess but financially (excluding the Ricoh lease) but in 2008 the clock was set at zero so any losses (and it is not 70m ) are due to SISU ownership decisions since then
Not needing to own the stadium to run a club is not a revelation - I and others on here have been saying it for literally years. It is the income streams that are important. At L1 level even small amounts of other income make a difference. You are not going to get the turnovers he suggests from progs & merchandise as it stands because both have been franchised out. In any case it is all very well having the turnover what about the costs, because that dictates the cash that is actually available to spend on players etc.
So in the first article he says SISU have their own agenda, are intransigent and wont sell because it would crystallise a big loss (by my reckoning somewhere over 30m) then in the third article he says the fans need to spend their money going to matches because it will be more likely to make the owners sell. Really? I thought they didnt want to crystallise the loss so attendances are irrelevant so long as they are cash flow neutral or better. Or would they pay out their interest? Hard to get fans to spend for no reward when no one else (including him) is prepared to. Going to take some significant increase in incomes in order to soften the blow should the loss crystallise for a club with no assets. So why would SISU change their mind and go, taking a big hit on losses if they cant take the money out. Because apparently the extra money would be invested in the team and you need wages of 4 to 5 m to get top six L1 (double current levels) - then of course getting promoted you will need a lot more to compete in the Championship where is that coming from. Where is the funding for 4m to 5m coming from, it requires a risk.
Yes with success the crowds could increase and match receipts could hit 5m (last time it did was 2008 and 2009) But the attendances CCFC get for L1 are actually pretty reasonable all things considered (although unless results improve that will drop). What is missing is a little success but honestly does anyone see us consistently hitting 20k attendances every week in L1 or even Championship
What seems to be glossed over is that he spent 50m on a team in a much better financial place than us with access to better income streams higher up the pyramid and lost it all. That makes him an expert? He has an opinion, its worth a read but nothing more than that.
It is going to take sustained investment in the team to get us out of this division and keep us in the one above. That will mean serious money over a number of years. The championship (being optimistic) is 18 months away at best let alone the Premiership where all the money really is. Pull out the parachute payments and hpw many Championship teams make a profit? and if they make losses who finances that?
one thing he is right about is that a good bond between fans and club is essential to putting a decent team out. Break that bond at your peril - if you care in the first place that is
It is not a series of revelations concerning our finances or our owners as the CT would have you think. Does sell papers though.
I assume when he looked at it three years ago he is was sniffing a potential bargain in the administration process. Perversly the expectation on sale price is higher than it was then
Yes he understands football as it was conducted at Crystal Palace that is not the same as understanding how it works at CCFC. There are general principles yes but most people understand those. At best some of what he has said counter balances things said by others equally qualified.
The 1m profit is after player sales but before interest that is charged on the ARVO/SISU investor loans. Doesnt matter that it isnt paid over the club is loss making as per its profit & loss account which is what Simon Gilbert references. it doesnt make £1m profit which is what the average fan will expect to see. In any case it is the cashflow that is important not the profit. If it doesnt make a cashflow surplus of £1m it wont have £1m to reinvest in the team.
The £70m. It doesnt exist. There is nothing in the accounts that shows it ever existed. So his comments on this are based on a false premise. Also relates it back to 9 years and to 2000. Surely every one understands that yes we got ourselves in a mess but financially (excluding the Ricoh lease) but in 2008 the clock was set at zero so any losses (and it is not 70m ) are due to SISU ownership decisions since then
Not needing to own the stadium to run a club is not a revelation - I and others on here have been saying it for literally years. It is the income streams that are important. At L1 level even small amounts of other income make a difference. You are not going to get the turnovers he suggests from progs & merchandise as it stands because both have been franchised out. In any case it is all very well having the turnover what about the costs, because that dictates the cash that is actually available to spend on players etc.
So in the first article he says SISU have their own agenda, are intransigent and wont sell because it would crystallise a big loss (by my reckoning somewhere over 30m) then in the third article he says the fans need to spend their money going to matches because it will be more likely to make the owners sell. Really? I thought they didnt want to crystallise the loss so attendances are irrelevant so long as they are cash flow neutral or better. Or would they pay out their interest? Hard to get fans to spend for no reward when no one else (including him) is prepared to. Going to take some significant increase in incomes in order to soften the blow should the loss crystallise for a club with no assets. So why would SISU change their mind and go, taking a big hit on losses if they cant take the money out. Because apparently the extra money would be invested in the team and you need wages of 4 to 5 m to get top six L1 (double current levels) - then of course getting promoted you will need a lot more to compete in the Championship where is that coming from. Where is the funding for 4m to 5m coming from, it requires a risk.
Yes with success the crowds could increase and match receipts could hit 5m (last time it did was 2008 and 2009) But the attendances CCFC get for L1 are actually pretty reasonable all things considered (although unless results improve that will drop). What is missing is a little success but honestly does anyone see us consistently hitting 20k attendances every week in L1 or even Championship
What seems to be glossed over is that he spent 50m on a team in a much better financial place than us with access to better income streams higher up the pyramid and lost it all. That makes him an expert? He has an opinion, its worth a read but nothing more than that.
It is going to take sustained investment in the team to get us out of this division and keep us in the one above. That will mean serious money over a number of years. The championship (being optimistic) is 18 months away at best let alone the Premiership where all the money really is. Pull out the parachute payments and hpw many Championship teams make a profit? and if they make losses who finances that?
one thing he is right about is that a good bond between fans and club is essential to putting a decent team out. Break that bond at your peril - if you care in the first place that is
It is not a series of revelations concerning our finances or our owners as the CT would have you think. Does sell papers though.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The average would be helped by playing the likes of Villa, Wolves and Brum. They'd bring way more than any visiting team now and as we've seen in the past it snowballs. Club say Wolves have sold 4K for example and suddenly its a big match that people want to go to.