SISU 2016 Accounts (11 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 7, 2017

shmmeee said:
Firstly, despite the occasional posts from randoms here, the chances of your average Joe meeting high flying finance people are pretty low.

Hmmm, I'd say there are enough within our fanbase, mind. People crop up here with the ways in, occasionally.

Alas, my own contacts are too out of date to be useful. Never even worked in finance(!) but there was a time when I used to come into regular contact with 'high flying finance people' (and, indeed, hedge fund managers, and critics of hedge funds - if only we'd done all this when SISU were buying us, I could have cheerfully pointed people towards the right people to help 'expose' them but, ah well. Whoever thought I should have kept in touch eh!).

So I'm sure there are people out there. The difficulty isn't that, it's getting the right people with the ways in, introduced to the right people with the time and aptitude to do something with the ways in. tbh, that in itself would be a challenge and a half.

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

Watch the telegraph comments to see how many think it's ccfc

oldskyblue58 · Jan 10, 2017

I would think part of their turnover was derived from this sale

Abacus Alpha GmbH acquires Airinotec GmbH from SISU Capital Ltd

They seem to have been doing business through SISU Capital International Limited for some time. But there is no info I can find for that company

chiefdave · Jan 10, 2017

Nick said:
Watch the telegraph comments to see how many think it's ccfc

chiefdave · Jan 10, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
Abacus Alpha GmbH acquires Airinotec GmbH from SISU Capital Ltd

That's one of those companies that wants to be at the front of Yellow Pages!

chiefdave · Jan 10, 2017

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

chiefdave said:

Ah didn't see it as his block button came out when i pointed out his rumours contradicted each other.

It's laughable.

Hobo · Jan 10, 2017

Looks like SISU and Wasps could be around for years yet.

Gosford Green · Jan 10, 2017

Nick said:
Ah didn't see it as his block button came out when i pointed out his rumours contradicted each other.

It's laughable.

Highly enthusiastic when its having a go at fellow CCFC fans but totally different when it come to SISU/owners.

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

Gosford Green said:
Highly enthusiastic when its having a go at fellow CCFC fans but totally different when it come to SISU/owners.

Did you miss the thread about the flag at wasps? You were quiet on there....

Gosford Green · Jan 10, 2017

Nick said:
Did you miss the thread about the flag at wasps? You were quiet on there....

Fed up with Wasps and the almost constant talk on here and FB from CCFC fans about a rugby team, I am trying not to engage in arguments or discussions about them. I have no more than a passive interest in the sport and no interest in Wasps.

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

Gosford Green said:
Fed up with Wasps and the almost constant talk on here and FB from CCFC fans about a rugby team, I am trying not to engage in arguments or discussions about them. I have no more than a passive interest in the sport and no interest in Wasps.

I wasn't referring to wasps, meant the content

Gosford Green · Jan 10, 2017

Nick said:
I wasn't referring to wasps, meant the content

I will have a look now, if it was anything Wasps I would have avoided it on purpose.

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

Gosford Green said:
I will have a look now, if it was anything Wasps I would have avoided it on purpose.

No it was actual abuse at fans

Gosford Green · Jan 10, 2017

Nick said:
No it was actual abuse at fans

Put the link up I can not find it.

cloughie · Jan 10, 2017

. What has been realised in those funds relating to CCFC? If it is a direct charge on CCFC during 2015/16 then that has put up CCFC overheads/losses by 1.2m - goes against what we have been told. So I have my doubts
Exactly it is a you say
In my view it is money being appropriated against CCFC not sisu other investments

cloughie · Jan 10, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
we don't, it is a matter for the directors and auditors and they will not be discussing it publically. Just to be clear I am at no stage suggesting there is anything wrong or illegal going on. I do not have the information to explain it that's all, and will never have access to it

Yet you and I know sorry, suspect very strongly that all is not above board with the finances and figures manipulated to suit......... but

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

cloughie said:
Yet you and I know sorry, suspect very strongly that all is not above board with the finances and figures manipulated to suit......... but

Surely if he knew he would say?

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

It's set Juggy off again.

The amount of people then going off on one saying how he has been proven right!

Nick · Jan 10, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
I would think part of their turnover was derived from this sale

Abacus Alpha GmbH acquires Airinotec GmbH from SISU Capital Ltd

They seem to have been doing business through SISU Capital International Limited for some time. But there is no info I can find for that company

WHo is Hugh Samuel? Not heard of him before I don't think!

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 11, 2017

Nick said:
WHo is Hugh Samuel? Not heard of him before I don't think!

He is the power beneath despair.

oldskyblue58 · Jan 11, 2017

What frustrates me immensely is that there is enough to go on to attack SISU and their ownership of CCFC without making huge assumptions that actually are tenuous at best, but others take as fact. Now there may be some benefit to SISU somewhere in this but the accounts do not show any direct link, and indirect links are conjecture.

-The £1.3m interest charge was in Otium accounts to 31/05/15. SISU accounts just released are for year to 31/03/16. Yes they overlap, by two months but are largely different periods

- It is absolutely clear in both the Otium and SBS&L accounts 2015 & 2014 that there was no physical movement of funds to pay interest in year to 2015 or 2014. (see the cash flow statement and notes regarding loans and interest)

- Interest shown in 2015 otium accounts is due to ARVO not SISU Capital Ltd. ARVO results are not consolidated in to the SISU Capital accounts so the interest charges due to ARVO would not show as SISU Capital Turnover in any case. That means that the SISU turnover 2016 could not be the same interest charge in Otium accounts 2015.

- Yes ARVO is related to SISU Capital but is not a SISU Capital Subsidiary. SISU do source income from it via SCPLLP some years, SCPLLP manage ARVO investment funds. CCFC do not appear to be the only ARVO investment and have not physically paid ARVO any interest in 2015 or 2014

- SISU Capital Ltd accounts list the source of income in 2016 as SISU Capital Partners LLP (SCPLLP) and SISU Capital international limited (SCIL). In theory the funds A-E/ARVO could have contributed something to the SCPLLP income relating to CCFC but so would the sale of Abacus Alpha in January 2016 (see my post 73 above). The evidence available suggests that CCFC is not the only investment held by funds A-E or ARVO managed by SCPLLP. In 2015 the source of income for SISU Capital Ltd was SCIL alone and as far we know that entity has no interest in CCFC/Otium/SBS&L at all

- Is a lender not entitled to charge interest on an unsecured loan? Even then it is hardly a benefit if it cant be or isn't drawn

- the employee benefit Trust. This is a strange one because you would expect this to be entirely separate to the SISU Capital Group accounts. Yes there could be a charge but why is it shown as a SISU Capital Asset, the whole purpose is to take it away from the company. I can only assume it is there because as well as contributing SISU control the investment. But I always understood that contributions had to be seen to be paid, the SISU Capital Accounts could seem to imply non payment because as well as the investment there is a liability equal to the investment. Perhaps it is just to include the asset and the book entry is dr asset cr liability.

- total costs of SISU Capital Ltd are £1092908. Wages costs £455171, Other costs disclosed in note 3 are £135326 = total £590497 that leaves amount left to cover remaining expenses £502411 (stuff like rates, insurance, professional memberships, computer maintenance, travel, and employee benefit trust contribution). The apparent contribution to the Employee Benefit Scheme to also include in costs is £613684. Something does not seem to add up.

- wages costs did not drop because they took a wage reduction it would seem there are 4 less employees in 2016 compared to 2015

All the above is taken from published audited accounts.

Whether we like it or not SISU are contractually entitled to earn from the investments they manage for their investors and have been entitled to well before investing via those same funds in CCFC. How much is charged to CCFC is the question and is it fair and reasonable - perfectly valid to question that. No evidence is shown of any such charges in any of the related financial statements. So claims by some taken as fact that it goes on are conjecture, guesswork and assumption nothing more

We wont be able to compare Otium/SBS&L to SISU Capital better until we have the OTIUM/SBS&L accounts to 31/05/16 due out in February

The bit that frustrates about stuff like this is that Juggy is well known and people take in what he says and a lot believe it. When in actual fact it is jumping to conclusions that might look right but there is not a lot of evidence to support when you actually look in to it (see above)

Stick to the facts we know, question certainly, but don't dress up assumption as fact. Doing so only brings misdirection, confusion. weakens the challenge to SISU and makes their life easier

Ashdown · Jan 11, 2017

I read that £431,000 went to Directors of our owners ! That quite frankly amongst all the other cost cuts is appalling !

chiefdave · Jan 11, 2017

oldskyblue58 said:
What frustrates me immensely is that there is enough to go on to attack SISU and their ownership of CCFC without making huge assumptions that actually are tenuous at best, but others take as fact.

Totally agree with this. All that happens is that people go off on one and then it gives Fisher a free pass when he's questions as he can concentrate on the things he can easily prove to be incorrect rather than be question on the important issues.

chiefdave · Jan 11, 2017

Some 'highlights' from the Telegraph:

Didint Fisher talk about making £1m profit?

I think the Wilson money is where SISU profit came from.

If CCFC made profits of £1 million that means without them SISU lost about ¾ million by my maths

It must be from the interest they are charging CCFC.

We need more NOPM.

So what's needed are the CCFC accounts - but will they show how much has been paid to SISU in interest, management fees, Timmie's salary etc

SISU CCFC one and the same. Starve CCFC you starve SISU.

It's in the hands of the people that attend the Ricoh. SISU OUT NOPM

Time to step up NOPM!

If the Supporters do not buy season tickets next season and do not go it will finish SISU.

Joy, Tim & the boys would like to thank the continued support of the CCFC fans that turn up week in week out. We recognised that without this continued support we would not have had such a lucrative year.

You fans that keep turning up is like putting fresh coals on dying embers - you are in a minority!

Profit of the Academy players going into there pockets & not into CCFC.

I'm not surprised... The c#@ts are selling all our assets!!

Nick · Jan 11, 2017

chiefdave said:
Some 'highlights' from the Telegraph:

Didint Fisher talk about making £1m profit?

I think the Wilson money is where SISU profit came from.

If CCFC made profits of £1 million that means without them SISU lost about ¾ million by my maths

It must be from the interest they are charging CCFC.

We need more NOPM.

So what's needed are the CCFC accounts - but will they show how much has been paid to SISU in interest, management fees, Timmie's salary etc

SISU CCFC one and the same. Starve CCFC you starve SISU.

It's in the hands of the people that attend the Ricoh. SISU OUT NOPM

Time to step up NOPM!

If the Supporters do not buy season tickets next season and do not go it will finish SISU.

Joy, Tim & the boys would like to thank the continued support of the CCFC fans that turn up week in week out. We recognised that without this continued support we would not have had such a lucrative year.

You fans that keep turning up is like putting fresh coals on dying embers - you are in a minority!

Profit of the Academy players going into there pockets & not into CCFC.

I'm not surprised... The c#@ts are selling all our assets!!

It's always people who shout the loudest as well about our "plight".

Juggy all over the radio, people take what he says as gospel. They then tell their friends, they then pass it on.

Esoterica · Jan 11, 2017

Ashdown said:
I read that £431,000 went to Directors of our owners ! That quite frankly amongst all the other cost cuts is appalling !

Why, when you have no idea how their other investments are performing?

Ashdown · Jan 11, 2017

So did the directors receive £431,000 or not ?!

Nick · Jan 11, 2017

Esoterica said:
Why, when you have no idea how their other investments are performing?

Because it's just easier for him to say they are laundering money like it's fact to justify being angry about it. It gets the likes and it gets other people angry too.

Captain Dart · Jan 11, 2017

Nick said:
It's set Juggy off again.

The amount of people then going off on one saying how he has been proven right!

The SISU PR machine is another fail. Incorrect assumptions made by an mass of ill informed people can elect Presidents.

Skybluefaz · Jan 11, 2017

Ashdown said:
So did the directors receive £431,000 or not ?!

Yeah but it doesn't mean much to ccfc does it?

Esoterica · Jan 11, 2017

Nick said:
Because it's just easier for him to say they are laundering money like it's fact to justify being angry about it. It gets the likes and it gets other people angry too.

Well not exactly what he was saying - think he was suggesting it's too much reward in the context of all the other cut backs at CCFC but it's still just another figure being used without full understanding of the context.

Nick · Jan 11, 2017

Captain Dart said:
The SISU PR machine is another fail. Incorrect assumptions made by an mass of ill informed people can elect Presidents.

It can also do more harm than good

Nick · Jan 11, 2017

Esoterica said:
Well not exactly what he was saying - think he was suggesting it's too much reward in the context of all the other cut backs at CCFC but it's still just another figure being used without full understanding of the context.

Not on this thread, but across others where he says it

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 11, 2017

Nick said:
Because it's just easier for him to say they are laundering money like it's fact to justify being angry about it. It gets the likes and it gets other people angry too.

Where has he said they were "Money laundering?"

How much are directors Joy Seppala and Dermot Coleman taking out of the business?
The directors received payments totalling £431,505 - up from £59,565 in the previous year.

A total of £366,399 was categorised as “allocation of profits”. The directors took no profits out of the firm in the previous year.

Mr Carvell said: “The two directors were paid £431,505. The highest paid director got £301,089.

“That’s not necessarily cash - it could be benefits, like cars, the business has signed off for those directors.

“They’ve made a huge amount of profit and they’ve taken it.”

SISU 2016 Accounts (11 Viewers)

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