SISU/ARVO appeal turned down (8 Viewers)

[skyblueinBaku]

My support for CCFC is not depentant on the capacity of the ground they play in. In a 15k stadium, if we are doing well, I may not be able to get a ticket for the games I can get up to. I'll cross that bridge if and when I get to it.

 

---

[Grendel]

My support for CCFC is not depentant on the capacity of the ground they play in. In a 15k stadium, if we are doing well, I may not be able to get a ticket for the games I can get up to. I'll cross that bridge if and when I get to it.

You'll be ok. According to Italia it would be a big issue for loads of fans and many will not attend.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

You'll be ok. According to Italia it would be a big issue for loads of fans and many will not attend.

Phew! That's a relief!

 

[King of the Lesbians]

That's an understandable reason compared to some.

BTW Nick, I can't do Oldham next season 'cause their seat colours clash with my eye-liner...

 

[skybluetony176]

My support for CCFC is not depentant on the capacity of the ground they play in. In a 15k stadium, if we are doing well, I may not be able to get a ticket for the games I can get up to. I'll cross that bridge if and when I get to it.

Although I agree with you the problem is that 15K in reality means 12.5-13K or something near to that for home fans. You may well have been locked out for the games you could have got up to this season let alone if we get promoted to the championship before you even start dreaming of the premier league. 15K is not fit for purpose now let alone if we get promoted.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Although I agree with you the problem is that 15K in reality means 12.5-13K or something near to that for home fans. You may well have been locked out for the games you could have got up to this season let alone if we get promoted to the championship before you even start dreaming of the premier league. 15K is not fit for purpose now let alone if we get promoted.

I agree that 15k is too small a starting capacity. 18k would be better, especially if a safe standing area was included. However, I'm not convinced that the BPA idea wil be a goer. There are many serious problems to overcome.

 

[Captain Dart]

Bournemouth got to the Prem (and have stayed there) with a stadium of just over 11k.
A stadium of 15k doesn't mean we've settled at this level...it's been proven that historically, our crowds rarely touch the mid-20ks apart from one off/big games. Even when we were in the Prem we never sold out HR consistently.

I'm not saying that I want a 15k stadium by the way. But i'd rather we had a full stadium with good atmosphere, rather than have a ground 1/2 or 2/3s full with a crap atmosphere.

What's more, I'd like to see you not go to any of our games in the PL based on the fact that our stadium isn't big enough.

If only you researched who has actually paid for those promotions.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/afc-bourne...xim-demin-shadows-premier-league-club-1498759
http://www.afcb.co.uk/news/article/afc-bournemouth-peak6-investment-2792770.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32611521
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...mier-League-new-boys-announce-debt-21-5m.html

Losses 2012-2013 - £15.3M
Losses 2013-2014 - £10.5M

 

[shy_tall_knight]

I like the idea of BPA, I think the whole matchday experience would be enhanced especially the walk up to the ground, its one of those things that you never miss untill its gone but miss this part of highfield road when compared to going to a stadium on the edge of a city. However need to be honest irrespective of the proposed capacity, it just isn't going to happen, even if CCC gave us 100% support there are too many structural changes to the roads etc.. to accomodate even just a 10,000 crowd, there would be a genuine health & safety issue with crowds spilling out onto a single road, the pavements couldn't cope Also would you be willing to go into any partnership agreement with SISU, they have a tendency to burn bridges rather than build bridges "battering people in court" isn't the basis of a long-term relationship.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

If only you researched who has actually paid for those promotions.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/afc-bourne...xim-demin-shadows-premier-league-club-1498759
http://www.afcb.co.uk/news/article/afc-bournemouth-peak6-investment-2792770.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32611521
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...mier-League-new-boys-announce-debt-21-5m.html

Losses 2012-2013 - £15.3M
Losses 2013-2014 - £10.5M

If only you had read my previous posts properly ;-)

I've clearly stated that Bournemouths owner has pumped millions in. I also said that CCFC will be here longer than SISU. What's to say we could't get to the PL in a 15k stadium with someone chucking silly money at it?

Granted, highly unlikely but as Leicester have shown us this season, nothing's impossible in the world of football any longer.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I like the idea of BPA, I think the whole matchday experience would be enhanced especially the walk up to the ground, its one of those things that you never miss untill its gone but miss this part of highfield road when compared to going to a stadium on the edge of a city. However need to be honest irrespective of the proposed capacity, it just isn't going to happen, even if CCC gave us 100% support there are too many structural changes to the roads etc.. to accomodate even just a 10,000 crowd, there would be a genuine health & safety issue with crowds spilling out onto a single road, the pavements couldn't cope Also would you be willing to go into any partnership agreement with SISU, they have a tendency to burn bridges rather than build bridges "battering people in court" isn't the basis of a long-term relationship.

Quick point on the infrastructure point stk....I'm not local to Cov and don't know the area overly well. I also don't know about the history of the Butts so genuine question.

When the stadium was built, wouldn't there have been plans for future expansion, of which infrastructure would've been considered?

WM

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

BTW Nick, I can't do Oldham next season 'cause their seat colours clash with my eye-liner...

There are more important issues with Oldham went this season and they've changed the pie supplier I was devastated

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Quick point on the infrastructure point stk....I'm not local to Cov and don't know the area overly well. I also don't know about the history of the Butts so genuine question.

When the stadium was built, wouldn't there have been plans for future expansion, of which infrastructure would've been considered?

WM

The history of BPA is nearly as murky as the Ricoh, far from straightforward. It previous was a run down stadium with a running track, where school football finals were played, athletics and I saw Eddie Kidd there once (he was doing moter cycle tricks not playing for Cardinal Wiseman) There are a few small gaps in the railway arches but toher than that the crowd will have to walk on Butts Road. In the old days at Highfield Road Swann Lane would be closed off to trafficafter a game for fans to walk.

 

[italiahorse]

I agree that 15k is too small a starting capacity. 18k would be better, especially if a safe standing area was included. However, I'm not convinced that the BPA idea wil be a goer. There are many serious problems to overcome.

Its not the start capacity that's the problem its the end capacity !!

 

[italiahorse]

You'll be ok. According to Italia it would be a big issue for loads of fans and many will not attend.

Mark my words and feed it back.
If we get a non expandable stadium up to 15K I will not be alone.

 

[torchomatic]

Mark my words and feed it back.
If we get a non expandable stadium up to 15K I will not be alone.

You could always stand in your car park and reminisce "Ah, I remember when this place was full of cars..."

 

[italiahorse]

[QUOTE="Skyblueweeman, post: 1095070, member: 3248 I also said that CCFC will be here longer than SISU.[/QUOTE]

IMHO they will finish at the same time.

 

[sky blue john]

This is a fictional discussion yes ?
As Sisu to date have shown no inclination of investing in a stadium.
They have talked about it and suckered in some of our more gullible supporters.
However they would except being given a stadium for free, but only on the condition of it being debt free !

 

[Grendel]

This is a fictional discussion yes ?
As Sisu to date have shown no inclination of investing in a stadium.
They have talked about it and suckered in some of our more gullible supporters.
However they would except being given a stadium for free, but only on he condition of it being debt free !

There is no evidence they wanted it for free.

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

I'm up for The Butts, but the club really need to come out and make a concrete statement on what their plans are.
They haven't said anything about the Butts, or said anything about anything really, so given its now been three years since the Northampton fiasco they should at least give us fans who have stood by and watched the 3/4 years of fighting between them and the council what they actually plan to do.
All they say is we need to have access to this and that but if they are looking into the Butts option say it, It's the very least they could do,they have had long enough.

 

[sky blue john]

There is no evidence they wanted it for free.

Lol !
There is definately no evidence they wanted to pay for it either. Exactly my point all there has ever been is talk !

 

[Grendel]

Lol !
There is definately no evidence they wanted to pay for it either. Exactly my point all there has ever been is talk !

There is evidence they made offers which were certainly competitive to what was eventually agreed to with Wasps.

Stop making things up to suit your arguments

 

[chiefdave]

When did Fisher say that and when did Anderson say he wants us there longer term?

The last reference I can find to Fisher saying it is September 2015 but doesn't contain a direct quote and also says that everything didn't need to be on one site.

After that, when the club returned to Higgs in December 2015 Waggott said the following:

“This is a good agreement for all parties. We are delighted to be back at the Alan Higgs Centre and I know that parents of our players will be equally pleased.

“It had been our home since it first opened. The staff there know the club well and understand our needs, and the facilities are well suited to what we need to develop our players and bring forward future generations of City first team footballers.

“We are all very much looking forward to being back there and for normal service to be resumed.”

“We have made it very plain that we see a successful Academy as the bed rock of all we are doing going forward.

“We want to develop young, talented players who then stand a chance of making it through to the senior ranks. Steven Pressley sees a flow of players through from the Academy to the first team squad as essential to his long-term plans.

“We have a dozen or so former Academy players now in our first team squad and it is clear to see the energy and commitment, as well as ability, they bring to the club.

“There has been a great deal of water under the bridge in recent months and I know that the Otium Entertainment Group is very grateful to the Alan Higgs Centre Trust for helping us establish a meaningful way forward for both parties.”

And we had this from Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen

“The Trustees are glad that a satisfactory end has been brought to this chapter in the centre’s life and that they can now continue to build for the future with a greater degree of security”.

Neither of those read as if its anything but a long term arrangement. Then we move on to early May and Chris Anderson's program notes:

"Please know that we are doing everything we can to make sure the Academy contiinues to have a good home and extend the lease and secure the Academy's future.

"I have been in discussion with the Coventry Sports Foundation who operate the Alan Higgs Centre and we hope to achieve an extension for that lease before too long."

And then Anderson again at the end of the month:

When I think about our academy with local boys, the best athletes in our community, training at the Higgs centre, we would like to stay there and continue using it.

“That has become difficult. Coventry Sports Foundation has found it necessary to explore alternative uses. We’ve consistently said to them we would like to remain there. They have not been very engaging with us.

“Again, we need everybody behind the football club. I don’t see why anybody in Coventry would want the city’s most talented athletes frozen out of the city – a purpose-built facility which was built for the academy.

“I’ve not seen any evidence that the football club has ever indicated to the Coventry Sports Foundation that they would not want to stay there for the long term. I’ve seen no evidence of Coventry Sports Foundation coming to us officially to say we’re offering you to stay at the Higgs centre long term. They’ve not made that offer.

“It feels like they’ve decided we’re not part of their plans.”

I think something is going on, the pr against sisu has been cranked up ready for something

The door open comment is the same as the invite to buy the higgs half when wasps came in, it doesn't actually say or confirm anything just holds a big arrow at sisu and the club.

I have the same worry. Its all following a similar pattern to when Wasps got the Ricoh. Would not be at all surprised to see an announcement soon that we can no longer use the Higgs and it being spun as SISU's fault.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

But if you had the cchoice ofgettinginto partnership with the Thai owners of Leicester or SISU - who would you pick ? Their record whether unfairlyrepresented or not would put a lot of people off from investing alongside them, they have no credeibility or more importantly trust as what they are preceived as aggressive who resort to the courst to resolve disputes rather than negotiation / conciliation.

Perception is often reality, and hus if it was Dragon's Den I'd be out regardless of the proposal on offer.

 

[Nick]

Is that 2014 we went back?

 

[Nick]

But if you had the cchoice ofgettinginto partnership with the Thai owners of Leicester or SISU - who would you pick ? Their record whether unfairlyrepresented or not would put a lot of people off from investing alongside them, they have no credeibility or more importantly trust as what they are preceived as aggressive who resort to the courst to resolve disputes rather than negotiation / conciliation.

Perception is often reality, and hus if it was Dragon's Den I'd be out regardless of the proposal on offer.

Really? You would kick the city's football team out of the academy because of dislike for the owner? Especially after the club was taken to court by the Higgs to resolve a dispute?

This is where all the random justification because of dislike for SISU comes in.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Have you replied to the correct post I'm just saying irrespective of the rights or wrongs of SISU Higgs CCC, SISU have a poor reputation for potential investment partners in CCFC projects

 

[Nick]

Have you replied to the correct post I'm just saying irrespective of the rights or wrongs of SISU Higgs CCC, SISU have a poor reputation for potential investment partners in CCFC projects

And that you would be out regardless of the offer...

This sort of stuff does give people like Higgs and the Council a free pass to get away with stuff, as they just say "SISU" and all is ok as it was against SISU.

Higgs Centre seems to be screwing over the club now, but nobody really gives a shit. They put out a statement the same as the one when Wasps moved in putting it back onto the club and thats how it's taken.

 

[colin101]

I have the same worry. Its all following a similar pattern to when Wasps got the Ricoh. Would not be at all surprised to see an announcement soon that we can no longer use the Higgs and it being spun as SISU's fault.

Why is it everybody's fault except for CCFC?.
We don't own Higgs, we don't want to sign a long term deal because we building our own facilities, but now we do want a long term deal, so Higgs should stop immediately looking for an alternative solution.
Why should we own or pay for others to build facilities that CCFC want to use? We are CCFC/SISU and deserve and need these so every one else should be grateful that we want to have everything they have, after all look at our history and you will see we are and will always be good tenants.......Honest

 

[italiahorse]

I like the idea of BPA, I think the whole matchday experience would be enhanced especially the walk up to the ground, its one of those things that you never miss untill its gone but miss this part of highfield road when compared to going to a stadium on the edge of a city. However need to be honest irrespective of the proposed capacity, it just isn't going to happen, even if CCC gave us 100% support there are too many structural changes to the roads etc.. to accomodate even just a 10,000 crowd, there would be a genuine health & safety issue with crowds spilling out onto a single road, the pavements couldn't cope Also would you be willing to go into any partnership agreement with SISU, they have a tendency to burn bridges rather than build bridges "battering people in court" isn't the basis of a long-term relationship.

What I expect to happen though is that Sisu won't compromise on the 17 points and so say they are leaving after the 2 year deal..
It won't be as bad as Northampton as they will move to the butts and is in Coventry.
Temporary stands will increase attendances to about 8,000 and they will make the promise (again) that it is temporary while they build a new stadium.
Ultimately they will 'eventually' loose all the legals and pull the plug.

 

[italiahorse]

The last reference I can find to Fisher saying it is September 2015 but doesn't contain a direct quote and also says that everything didn't need to be on one site.

After that, when the club returned to Higgs in December 2015 Waggott said the following:


And we had this from Peter Knatchbull-Hugessen


Neither of those read as if its anything but a long term arrangement. Then we move on to early May and Chris Anderson's program notes:



And then Anderson again at the end of the month:



I have the same worry. Its all following a similar pattern to when Wasps got the Ricoh. Would not be at all surprised to see an announcement soon that we can no longer use the Higgs and it being spun as SISU's fault.

Any indication whether CCFC have asked for a long term deal or just want to continue forever on the 12 months rolling contract ?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

And that you would be out regardless of the offer...

This sort of stuff does give people like Higgs and the Council a free pass to get away with stuff, as they just say "SISU" and all is ok as it was against SISU.

Higgs Centre seems to be screwing over the club now, but nobody really gives a shit. They put out a statement the same as the one when Wasps moved in putting it back onto the club and thats how it's taken.

But its very hard to change perceptions and maybe a potential investor coul;d see beyond all the court battles etc.. and that CCC Higgs have questions to answer, what evidence is there that SISU are a good business partner, they've done nothing to turn around the fortunes of the club or build sucessful partnerships elsewhere within football, they've said the club has got to stand on its own so are they likely to invest millions into a major capital project.. The perception is out there and IMO will be hard to change.

 

[sky blue john]

There is evidence they made offers which were certainly competitive to what was eventually agreed to with Wasps.

Stop making things up to suit your arguments

Lol !!
I don't count half arsed offers after the horse has bolted !

 

[Kingokings204]

I think what people are saying is that people don't not like ccfc but our owners regardless of anything anyone says have never shown to be willing to talk or be fair and that now by them coming out saying them now want to co operate and get a Higgs deal and a Ricoh deal with countless court cases and nasty tactics that it all sounds a bit rich.

Just saying it how it is. The new leader of the council has said the way forward is to drop court cases. He made it very simple. If we can't do this then how can we all move forward.

The Ricoh has been sold and the damage has been done now. We aren't getting the Ricoh now. Why prolong the agony.

 

[Captain Dart]

There is no evidence they wanted it for free.

I don't think there is any evidence they are serious about building a stadium.

 

[skybluetony176]

But its very hard to change perceptions and maybe a potential investor coul;d see beyond all the court battles etc.. and that CCC Higgs have questions to answer, what evidence is there that SISU are a good business partner, they've done nothing to turn around the fortunes of the club or build sucessful partnerships elsewhere within football, they've said the club has got to stand on its own so are they likely to invest millions into a major capital project.. The perception is out there and IMO will be hard to change.

I don't know. They had a good partnership with David Cardoza from Northampton. It started on good terms and finished on good terms. I think he said that the door was always open for them.

What ever happened to David Cardoza? Maybe he could help SISU out in an advisory role. He has some experience redeveloping existing grounds with the local authorities help I seem to remember