Word is Joy's on her last legs. She promised investor's she would win the JR but after losing so spectacularly investors said not one penny more which is why she had to agree to return to ricoh for the ST money. Labovitch has gone and Fishers on the naughty step. Joy used to be able to rely on the CET courtesy of Les Reid and there were people like Nikki Sinclaire through to Brian Patton she could get onside. She even got the Trust to sit on the fence. But now the only people left willing to do Joy's PR are Rob S and Les Reid who now he is ex-CET isn't that much of a help. acl-ccc have got the Trust back into bed with them and reckon with Joy already on the ropes bringing a franchise club to the ricoh will be a knock out blow!
sisu on the ropes (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter oldbloke
- Start date
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
They have access to billions as so many on here let us know but prefer to try to get ACL on the cheap though its distressing tactics which having miserably failed is there any surprise that they are on the ropes. If you had given money to SISU who had invested it in Project CCFC would you be concerned that you might never see your investment again never mind a profit on this investment.
matesx
Well-Known Member
thats how i see it too
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
If this is true it make you wonder why Les Reid & Rob Stevens are doing what they're doing?
PS I can see SISU lasting the 4 years yet, if they can find a way of sucking money out in that time, but speaking for myself, I can wait that long til they've gone.
PS I can see SISU lasting the 4 years yet, if they can find a way of sucking money out in that time, but speaking for myself, I can wait that long til they've gone.
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shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Need profits to write off tax losses but private equity invest other peoples money not their own, their investors look like they may have lost on this investment.
duffer
Well-Known Member
You could be right, but there's an awful lot of supposition here, and very little actual evidence. Even if bringing in a franchise club did herald the end of SISU, it still would be wrong in my opinion. The key is in the word 'franchise'.
As for Rob and Les working for SISU, that's a cheap shot. What they're doing, as I see it, is positing an alternative scenario where bringing in Wasps is both bad for the club and bad for the city.
I think it's worth at least considering that possiblity, especially if the morality of franchising doesn't really trouble you.
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There is money to be made at the City and benefits of holding onto a seemingly loss making operation. Thing is, hedge funds want short term return and this is a long term project !
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
7 year anniversary of their ownership soon a long term project out of necessity rather than choice, long term because its going to take years if ever to resurrect the mess that they have created - look at our standings now our crowds etc.. - its not been a roller coaster for them its been downwards all the way.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I would say, for better or worse, it's pretty likely they wouldn't embark on a strategy without being able to see it through to success or failure.
It's the consequences to us of failure that are concerning...
Still, when they came in I'd expected them to have wound us up about now if it failed, so suppose it's progress(!)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Cheshire Sky Blue
New Member
How do you know they have access to 'Billions'? I would wager they do not have access at all. I struggle to see why any organisation that has easy access to 'billions' would piss about with an ailing football club and an asset that has no value in the North East of Coventry (Their view as stated at the JR)
Edit. Just read all of your post Shy Tall..... I think we are on the same boat.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Word is....?
Where did this word come from? Or is it your take on it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
No different from LR's twitter. He's been using terms like "I hear" "sources" etc
I would suggest that the OP and LR's comments are taken with the same pinch of salt for the time being. We currently only know what certain parties want us to know at the moment and I suspect it's far from the whole picture.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
where to begin ........
- whose word , what source, what evidence?
- the JR appeal is on going so that course of action is not over
- as agent for the investors SISU have full power of management to invest or not invest as SISU choose
- the CCFC investment forms a small part of a much bigger investment portfolio - you win some lose some
- do we actually know there has been no further investment
- do we actually know the investors have not received a return on investment
- Labovitch is gone - that's probably because his "PR" was not the best
- Fisher is still here, meeting fans, making statements etc hardly disappeared
- Joy may or may not have relied on Les Reid, I am sure he would say differently that he was merely reporting, but she hasn't been able to rely on the CET if could ever have done so
- There were plenty of people that believed in her but it is the facts and actions that are important - characters like Sinclaire were viewed by many as a nuisance and unhelpful
- I might not agree with RobS point of view but if you read what he puts it is not all blind faith in SISU there is criticism too
- considering she has only once communicated with the Trust (July 2014) how did she get them to "sit on the fence" get them not to challenge and release facts?
- Just how exactly do you know so much about the Trust?
- In what way are the Trust in bed with ACL/CCC
- What is your problem with the Trust, you keep spouting "facts" about it which are nothing more than inaccurate opinion for the most part
- where has anyone that makes decisions in all this ever said, (a) they don't want CCFC at the Ricoh (b) that bringing in Wasps means CCFC have to leave?
- is she on the ropes ? apparently going to build a new ground isn't she
all makes perfect sense then so must be true ............. all just an opinion and conjecture :thinking about::facepalm:
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I don't suppose you have anything that backs any of that up do you? Otherwise it is just rumours and conjecture and has been examined as such quite well by OSB58.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Isn't this train of thought how we ended up with SISU, on the basis that they were the only option. Despite the slightly dubious (in my opinion in case SISUs lawyers are reading), administration process there were several people interested, some of whom we still don't know the identity of.
Look at Portsmouth's latest administration, they were over £100m in debt and didn't have ownership of Fratton Park but still had parties other than their trust interested.
The problem is you won't know the level of interest until the club is put up for sale.
To use everyone's favourite house analogy nobody is knocking on my door asking to buy my house but it doesn't follow that if I was to put it up for sale there would be no interest.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Thanks OSB58 another balance response probably clear I'm not a big SISU fan but this investment has been a disaster for SISU and surely they have to be held accountable to their investors 7 years in my opinion is long term
diggerdaley
New Member
sisu's income is sales of young players,Wilson,Christie etc, in the future Haynes,Willis,Finch,Madison and anybody else thats any good.
Rob S
Well-Known Member
It's me!
AKA Rob Stevens, co-cordinator of the Get Cov Get Back to the Ricoh (GCBTTR) with Stuart Cosgrove (AKA Cossy).
Although there's no real backing and the logic & cheap shots are shaky to say the least, there are some elements on potential truth in OPs statement.
There is a private deal (we don't really know who is behind the consortium and it's being discussed in a private Labour group and then council meeting) to buy ACL and bring in Wasps from London via Wycombe. (People will want to ask if their fans will be standing in the car park outside the Ricoh protesting this move.)
After a lot of initial outrage, a few people here have seen a light that the buyout of ACL could lead to Sisu being forced out = a good thing. You only have to think back to a couple of years ago when the Trust were planning to work with the likes of Joe Elliot, Preston Haskell IV etc. when the administration push was looming.
Maybe the rent to CCFC has to go up after the extension to the current deal is being discussed or maybe, yet again, a rent cannot be agreed on.
Of course the PR machine will go into overdrive and we will have to work out who is at fault for leaving the Ricoh. (It doesn't usually tend to fall on the shoulders of the landlord we have found.)
The new stadium will have to be a reality if CCFC leave the Ricoh.
So is the plan for the Football League to take the golden share because CCFC leave the Ricoh? Or for Sisu to have to sell because they can't move CCFC to another ground share? Or sell because they won't be able to build another ground? (The campaign to prevent a new ground build and force a Ricoh return would be led by..?)
History shows us that Sisu aren't in the habit of just rolling over and selling when the shit hits the fan.
And what happens to CCFC in all this? Are we prepared for more unrest, more extended home game journeys and the potential for failure on the pitch? And what happens if we have success and people are less anti-Sisu because they put out a winning team?
This seems to be Groundhog Day. Fighting over the club's home and the club.
For those of us who aren't wedded to one side and one solution (and thanks duffer & OSB for comments relating to that) this is the worst thing possible where we could be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past 2–3 years.
And of course, putting the current set up of our first, U21 & U18 squads headed by Stevens Pressley & Waggot up against what the likes of Ray Ranson, Gary Hoffman, Joe Elliot (or whoever might be lurking in the wings) would put together? Do we really want to go back to those days?
Revolutions are only any good if you have an endgame that makes sense and can actually happen. If the revolution was held up by the escape from administration and sojourn to Northampton, how the hell is it going to happen now?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Yes they are in the sense that they must report at least annually and act as agents within the contract originally agreed. But what if CCFC is only a very small part of a much bigger pot? what if Sconset (controlled by SISU) has bought out the original investors for a fraction of their original investment? What if the overall retun on the investment pot is good and CCFC has little effect each year? what if they have parked the original £28m having repurchased it at say £2m? Both ARVO and the SBS&L loans now have interest charged on them so investors are getting an income would they be unhappy?
At first sight to us it might look like a very deep hole but it might not be. Things are not necessarily what they seem and SISU specialise in running hedge funds and private equity schemes
Cheshire Sky Blue
New Member
That's a great point STK, Now you have pointed out the 7 years it is really a signal to what a very poor investment SISU made. With the JR and other stuff that goes with CCFC this mess must be taking a disproportionate amount of time for SISU management . Either that or JS spends no time on it at all and we are just something going on in the background. The only conclusions I can make are that either SISU have access to very large sums of money for which they have total control over or they are significantly restricted and can not find the funds. There is no middle ground. I think it has always been the later which is why they won't outbid Wasps for ACL and why I fear for CCFC.
Don't forget SISU on the ropes probably means the football club are on the ropes. SISU can't just disappear without severe consequences for the club. I would be more worried than ever.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rob S
Well-Known Member
One other thing re: investment term lengths...
In the meeting last week, Joy pointed out – only in passing – that Sisu funds are hybrid rather than solely hedge funds meaning that they are a mix of hedging and private equity so it's not just about short term investments. They have medium & long-term investments and CCFC is most definitely long-term.
In the early Sisu days, it was Onye, as the fund manager, who was in charge. Joy had nothing to do with the fund that owned CCFC so had nearly zero involvement with the club. With the failure of Onye/Ranson she has had to get more involved and pointed out that she is now personally invested in the success of CCFC. It's weird having spoken to her a few times over nearly 10 months as her football knowledge, especially regarding the set-up & development off-the pitch, as improved a hell of a lot.
She was clear about the fact that she could never hope to consider herself on the level of long-term fans like most of us but is now emotionally invested in the success of CCFC and will only ever be a CCFC supporter. It's hard to get across the feeling you get from meeting someone who is so drastically different from the image that most people have of her but I can honestly say – and I will swear on anything you like, anytime – she actually cares about all this stuff.
I don't want to be a Joy fan, her PR guy or just someone who is being used to tell her side of the story and I have gone to massive lengths to make sure I'm not. There are people here who know me in real life and will be willing to vouch for me, even if they might totally disagree with what I am doing.
All I ask is that EVERYONE who has some influence on this whole CCFC saga is subject to the same scrutiny, questions, criticism and so forth. We need the whole truth and we need it to keep coming and coming. Only then can we really decide what is best for the future of CCFC.
In the meeting last week, Joy pointed out – only in passing – that Sisu funds are hybrid rather than solely hedge funds meaning that they are a mix of hedging and private equity so it's not just about short term investments. They have medium & long-term investments and CCFC is most definitely long-term.
In the early Sisu days, it was Onye, as the fund manager, who was in charge. Joy had nothing to do with the fund that owned CCFC so had nearly zero involvement with the club. With the failure of Onye/Ranson she has had to get more involved and pointed out that she is now personally invested in the success of CCFC. It's weird having spoken to her a few times over nearly 10 months as her football knowledge, especially regarding the set-up & development off-the pitch, as improved a hell of a lot.
She was clear about the fact that she could never hope to consider herself on the level of long-term fans like most of us but is now emotionally invested in the success of CCFC and will only ever be a CCFC supporter. It's hard to get across the feeling you get from meeting someone who is so drastically different from the image that most people have of her but I can honestly say – and I will swear on anything you like, anytime – she actually cares about all this stuff.
I don't want to be a Joy fan, her PR guy or just someone who is being used to tell her side of the story and I have gone to massive lengths to make sure I'm not. There are people here who know me in real life and will be willing to vouch for me, even if they might totally disagree with what I am doing.
All I ask is that EVERYONE who has some influence on this whole CCFC saga is subject to the same scrutiny, questions, criticism and so forth. We need the whole truth and we need it to keep coming and coming. Only then can we really decide what is best for the future of CCFC.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Even now if SISU were to present a credible plan for the long term security of the club I'd be prepared to full consideration and if it stood up to scrutiny would have my full support. Problem is we have no idea what is going on. They claim that moving to a new stadium will benefit us but won't give any details on any aspect of the project. Tell us where it us, show us the numbers add up and maybe we might support it. Same for every aspect of the club, explain what you are doing and where we are headed and try and get people on board.
At the moment all we can see is a third season in L1, crowds below 10K, no evidence at all of the new ground being built, no idea of how the finances stack up and so on.
It doesn't help when they talk about everything as if it's for the benefit of the club. We know SISUs primary concern is maximising their return so be honest about it. Explain how they are going to make their money and how we are going to benefit.
Rob S
Well-Known Member
I think that this is a totally reasonable expectation and I agree.
With the new stadium, there is no way they will say more until a land deal is done and even then, I don't think they will give a location until the planning stage is ready to go. If the land is sorted then we will get some more details about the site development. They've been burnt by not being clear about timescales in the past (although I think, on balance, that Labovitch was mis-quoted) so they're rightly keeping schtum.
I s'pose I have a bit more faith because I'm so sodding deep in all of this so it's a lot easier to balance out an opinion. Then again, I still believe a Ricoh deal is possible if CCC & Sisu talk. We don't have to just accept the fact that Joy isn't interested.
And I can reveal that there are plans in motion to be more transparent about all of this but the timescale is also likely to be fluid so maybe in the new year.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine it will be about three weeks
SISU should get a line of t-shirts in the club shop with 3 weeks, turkeys and eagles and all the other bollocks on them. Would make a fortune!
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Just had a look & it is extremely accurate & well informed, even if you disagree with the viewpoint .
Don't know about anyone else, but this reads like a PR piece to make Joy Seppala seem in some way palatable, well actions speak louder than words in my world, I don't give a stuff for what she says, it is what she does that counts only only that.
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Covstu
Well-Known Member
Personally think a buy out of ACL by Wasps or anyone other than the club will be a terrible outcome for both football and Rugby club in our city. I dont think they will just sell up as a result of this but could lead to us leaving the Ricoh under another cloud and a repeat of last season (if not worse).
As for the new ground - i am not convinced they have been looking, there is no evidence (apart from those little pictures) that the club is actively looking for a site as there would have been more communication about it (unless it is out of the city and they want to keep that quiet and not risk another uproar).
The Ricoh shoould belong to the club and if SISU are still in charge whilst that happens then so be it. Any other private company owning will result in disaster for the club and us fans.