SISU's new problem (4 Viewers)

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

Even if SISU wanted to make a deal on the rent, they might find it very hard to pay the money to ACL. I would imagine that the part of their budget from the shareholders originally allocated to the rent has gone on covering costs elsewhere - now let's say ACL demand a lump sum of £500k in part-back-rent payment, it may be impossible for SISU to find this in this year's remaining budget, meaning that they have to go "cap in hand" to their shareholders - that would not be an easy meeting!

torchomatic · Feb 18, 2013

And how we'd all laugh, eh?

"Come on you ACL boys!", etc

skybluehugh · Feb 18, 2013

But the poster OUCH was saying over the weekend that Shitsu had a bottomless money pot, so don't see this as being a problem. They keep saying they have the rent money but just won't pay it.

BrisbaneBronco · Feb 18, 2013

I do not think that finding the money will be a problem. JS will have access to funds without having to go to shareholders. Its more a question of whether she is prepared to do so.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

torchomatic said:
And how we'd all laugh, eh?

"Come on you ACL boys!", etc

Yeah burn the infidels, BURN THEM!!

skybluehugh · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
Yeah burn the infidels, BURN THEM!!

And we can use TORCH to light the fire

shy_tall_knight · Feb 18, 2013

The trouble with SISU is they were badly effected by the economic downturn in 2008 and thus the bottomless pit was closed for a bit whilst they realigned their resources etc.. There has been no evidence of the pit being reopened since other than to fund our massive operating losses which I think is even more fancy accounting.

Ryton was badly frozen, CCFC asked if they could use the Ricoh, to train ACL agreed but would charge them the additional cleaning costs etc.. CCFC refused to pay, we lost at home that week I think it was to Ipswich last season. The bottomless pit my ar$e

torchomatic · Feb 18, 2013

I 'liked' it though I'm not sure I should have!

skybluehugh said:
And we can use TORCH to light the fire

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

It bothers me why I and many other fans get attacked for being disloyal to CCFC, just because we are opposed to SISU and their brazenly hardball tactics to rape some not for profit organisations who have stepped in to save the club in the past.

Thankfully the direction of opinion in the fanbase is clearly moving away from SISU on this one

dongonzalos · Feb 18, 2013

CJparker said:
It bothers me why I and many other fans get attacked for being disloyal to CCFC, just because we are opposed to SISU and their brazenly hardball tactics to rape some not for profit organisations who have stepped in to save the club in the past.

Thankfully the direction of opinion in the fanbase is clearly moving away from SISU on this one

You are only attracted by a few CJ.

I support Coventry and I am proud to.

I am embarrassed by SISU's business activities.

It changes nothing about my support for Coventry City Football club.

It is the same when you don't like a manager or player's performance.

I don't like our owner's performance.

jas365 · Feb 18, 2013

CJparker said:
Even if SISU wanted to make a deal on the rent, they might find it very hard to pay the money to ACL. I would imagine that the part of their budget from the shareholders originally allocated to the rent has gone on covering costs elsewhere - now let's say ACL demand a lump sum of £500k in part-back-rent payment, it may be impossible for SISU to find this in this year's remaining budget, meaning that they have to go "cap in hand" to their shareholders - that would not be an easy meeting!

They would just take it out of the £30m they've got put aside to build the new ground.....

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

dongonzalos said:
You are only attracted by a few CJ.

I support Coventry and I am proud to.

I am embarrassed by SISU's business activities.

It changes nothing about my support for Coventry City Football club.

It is the same when you don't like a manager or player's performance.

I don't like our owner's performance.

Exactly Dongo...it's embarrassing with some posters lying to themselves by pretending that ACL are somehow the bad guys

torchomatic · Feb 18, 2013

They took advantage of the club when it was at a low ebb and charged a ridiculously high rent. THey're no better than each other in my opinion.

CJparker said:
Exactly Dongo...it's embarrassing with some posters lying to themselves by pretending that ACL are somehow the bad guys

torchomatic · Feb 18, 2013

Ah, but that's no strictly true. There are many posters who differ in opinion to me but I respect their views. However, you and certain others are in a different camp as you have come out and said in various posts that you'd rather the club folded than SISU "win" or ACL "lose". That's out of order.

CJparker said:
It bothers me why I and many other fans get attacked for being disloyal to CCFC, just because we are opposed to SISU and their brazenly hardball tactics to rape some not for profit organisations who have stepped in to save the club in the past.

Thankfully the direction of opinion in the fanbase is clearly moving away from SISU on this one

Buster · Feb 18, 2013

Can anyone tell me what would happen if acl and the council were to stick to their guns and demand the rent paid through law?
Sorry if this has been asked before. If sisu refused (or could not raise the required funds) would they have to walk away?

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

torchomatic said:
Ah, but that's no strictly true. There are many posters who differ in opinion to me but I respect their views. However, you and certain others are in a different camp as you have come out and said in various posts that you'd rather the club folded than SISU "win" or ACL "lose". That's out of order.

No, I didn't say that. I said that I wanted ACL to go for a winding up order - as a way of saying "no" to SISU and forcing SISU out of CCFC. Of coruse I don't want to see CCFC go otu of business, but the key to long term survival is to get rid of SISU, and ACL getting tough is the best way to achieve that. Means to an end.

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

SISU's only hope really is that ACL are bluffing and won't go for foreclosure/winding up, and just do a deal at the last minute.

By allegedly turning down the £150k p/a rent, SISU have effectively shown their true colours in that it's clear that the stadium ownership, not the rent level, is the real issue for them. They want to destroy ACL and pick up the Ricoh on the cheap -- that was the strategy but it isn't go to work.

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

torchomatic said:
They took advantage of the club when it was at a low ebb and charged a ridiculously high rent. THey're no better than each other in my opinion.

Not true - I think you'll find the rent level was market rate when you consider that the council stepping into the breach and pumped tens of millions of pounds in funding when the club's finances fell through. The council became a lender of last resort - nothing else was available on the market and I doubt we would have got a lower rent from any private investor who'd had to pump in millions in unanticipated emergency funding.

Time to take off the sky blue spectacles for a second Torch.

skybluegnome · Feb 18, 2013

CJparker said:
No, I didn't say that. I said that I wanted ACL to go for a winding up order - as a way of saying "no" to SISU and forcing SISU out of CCFC. Of coruse I don't want to see CCFC go otu of business, but the key to long term survival is to get rid of SISU, and ACL getting tough is the best way to achieve that. Means to an end.

..and if ACL succeed in getting their winding up order...and getting rid of SISU...then what....the only football club in the land run by the local council...?...Because there doesn't seem to be anyone out there willing to buy a club without assets... Still as long as SISU gets kicked out that is all that seems to matter to some people....We're all fed up with all this in house fighting..but you will see worse than that if ACL win and get rid of SISU...it will be typical Labour V Tory politicians who don't give a damn about CCFC, just wanting to score points against each other.......As I've said many times why do we choose to believe politicians (that is what ACL are) above SISU.....both sides are as bad as each other...IMO...

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Feb 18, 2013

CJparker said:
It bothers me why I and many other fans get attacked for being disloyal to CCFC, just because we are opposed to SISU and their brazenly hardball tactics to rape some not for profit organisations who have stepped in to save the club in the past.

Thankfully the direction of opinion in the fanbase is clearly moving away from SISU on this one

The only ones who are branded as disloyal are those like yourself who act like they would be genuinely delightedly if a deal was not able to be agreed

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

CJparker said:
Not true - I think you'll find the rent level was market rate
Time to take off the sky blue spectacles for a second Torch.

Market rate? Only if you are paying in Zimbabwean dollars.

The rent is £1.2 million without any access to match day revenues.

Bit like owning a shop in ball hill. You rent it of the council to sell fruit and veg. They charge a rent equivalent to Oxford street then tell you all revenue from the fruit they will keep
You can have the veg.

Saving the club? As I said yesterday they took advantage. Like offering a dying man a bottle of Evian and charging £10,000 and trying then to take the moral high ground.

Time for ACL to have a dose of lacatives so you, Don, sky blue John and all the rest can be flushed out and see reality.

Tonylinc · Feb 18, 2013

I've said this a million times before but will say it again. The time for argument/discussion/dispute was when Sisu originally took over the club (that is what "due diligence" is all about) NOT when they have presided over a relegation and thus a drop in income. Having said all that, yes, the rent is extreme, BUT there are lawful ways of going about getting a reduction which do not include simply refusing to pay!

Tonylinc · Feb 18, 2013

How anyone can defend this sort of behaviour is beyond me.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

Tonylinc said:
How anyone can defend this sort of behaviour is beyond me.

Very easily. Football fans turn a blind eye to murderers, women abusers on the field of play and oligarchs and human rights abusers off it priorities g they deliver

Yet no one will give a thought to the abusive practices operated by supermarkets or cloths manufacturers.

Personally that is beyond me not done warped support for a few faceless local councillors that no one cares about.

Sick Boy · Feb 18, 2013

It is perplexing how there are some posters who would take delight in ACL 'winning' this and winding the club up and for CCFC to go out of existence. How can anyone wish for their club to die in order to get rid of owners that they don't like?

Still, at least it will enable for ACL to rake in even more money with all of the conferences and exhibitions. It must make the money they make out of CCFC look like a pittance.

Come on ACL!

Tonylinc · Feb 18, 2013

Sick Boy said:
It is perplexing how there are some posters who would take delight in ACL 'winning' this and winding the club up and for CCFC to go out of existence. How can anyone wish for their club to die in order to get rid of owners that they don't like?

Still, at least it will enable for ACL to rake in even more money with all of the conferences and exhibitions. It must make the money they make out of CCFC look like a pittance.

Come on ACL!

Look; I have absolutely no desire for CCFC to go out of business BUT what I do want, is our owners to behave in the correct manner. Simply not paying what they agreed to is not the correct manner!

Tonylinc · Feb 18, 2013

Having said that I would love to get all parties in a room and bang their bloody heads together!

Sick Boy · Feb 18, 2013

Tonylinc said:
Look; I have absolutely no desire for CCFC to go out of business BUT what I do want, is our owners to behave in the correct manner. Simply not paying what they agreed to is not the correct manner!

So you think it is correct for the club to be exploited and milked of cash?

Would you be happy if we continued to pay sky-high rent but have less money to invest in the playing squad, resulting in relegation to league 2 in a season or two?

Tonylinc · Feb 18, 2013

Sick Boy said:
So you think it is correct for the club to be exploited and milked of cash?

No; I want them to go about getting a reduction in rent the correct way. I agree that the rent is too high (although you have to agree that this has been brought about by them ie relegation) Just go about the process in the correct way!

torchomatic · Feb 18, 2013

Market rate?! What, £1.2M eight years ago? I'd be interested then if you could provide eight year old data on all the other Championship clubs at the time. You must have the information to hand as you'd know that their rent was similar to the kindly offer from ACL.

You seem to be saying then because the situation was unique rather than check what other teams were paying they plucked a figure out of the air? Christ, ACL would have been dancing for joy when the fools on our board signed the clubs' future away.

CJparker said:
Not true - I think you'll find the rent level was market rate when you consider that the council stepping into the breach and pumped tens of millions of pounds in funding when the club's finances fell through. The council became a lender of last resort - nothing else was available on the market and I doubt we would have got a lower rent from any private investor who'd had to pump in millions in unanticipated emergency funding.

Time to take off the sky blue spectacles for a second Torch.

cloughie · Feb 18, 2013

i have rarely seen anyone wish for CCFC to go out of business due to the sisu /ACl debate other than PGSM1

So those claims are untrue unless, someone can show me different, then I'll apologise

Sick Boy · Feb 18, 2013

Tonylinc said:
No; I want them to go about getting a reduction in rent the correct way. I agree that the rent is too high (although you have to agree that this has been brought about by them ie relegation) Just go about the process in the correct way!

Even if we were in the Championship, 1.2m a year rent with 0% revenue streams would be way too much.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2013

Tonylinc said:
No; I want them to go about getting a reduction in rent the correct way. I agree that the rent is too high (although you have to agree that this has been brought about by them ie relegation) Just go about the process in the correct way!

Relegation has nothing to do with it we were paying 6 times the market rate before relegation and not allowed vital revenue streams. The club had to sign an agreement or die. If you had only one house you could live in and the evil landlord decided to suddenly charge 6 times the rent to your neighbour would be happy?

It is a disgrace, and if the council and ACL had a shred of dignity and morality they would allow a rent free agreement for at least the next 3 seasons to repair some of the damage that has been done to the club and its supporters.

Sick Boy · Feb 18, 2013

Grendel said:
It is a disgrace, and if the council and ACL had a shred of dignity and morality they would allow a rent free agreement for at least the next 3 seasons to repair some of the damage that has been done to the club and its supporters.

According to some on here, the money they make out of our football club is insignificant to the money they make from additional revenue sources. Surely this means that they could afford it as well, and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to their profits!

CJparker · Feb 18, 2013

torchomatic said:
Market rate?! What, £1.2M eight years ago? I'd be interested then if you could provide eight year old data on all the other Championship clubs at the time. You must have the information to hand as you'd know that their rent was similar to the kindly offer from ACL.

You seem to be saying then because the situation was unique rather than check what other teams were paying they plucked a figure out of the air? Christ, ACL would have been dancing for joy when the fools on our board signed the clubs' future away.

OK Torch, you and Grendel put your heads together and come up with a scenario where any organisation, other than the council, would spend c.£30m in emergency unexpected revenue to bail a private football club out of its self-incflicted mess by paying for a new stadium to be built...then let it play there for a peppercorn rent?

Council's have to act like a business - Cov city council does not exist to bale out CCFC. The city does not owe CCFC a living.

Torch and Grendel - also stop harping on about the "market rate for league one" - that argument would only carry substance if we suddenly decided to rent Boundary Park or similar. Our scenario is that someone else has paid for us to have a Premier League standard ground and we need to pay for it accordingly. I don't care what any other club pays, our circumstances are unique.

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