magic82ball
New Member
What planet are you on mate?
SISU fill the first team with youth players in 2011 after 3 years of piss poor management and INEVITABLY get us relegated. And you are suggesting they are blameless for the downturn in attendance?
Yeah, unless 5k of the 15k who regularly attended in the Championship were actually employed by SISU (it might explain the drop off in wages).
Well, with accounts like that reflecting the situation 9 months ago, anyone outside the club should be amazed we're still trading.
But then again ... Leicester just showed a loss of some £34m and that followed a loss the previous year of £30m.
Anyway, ARVO is increasing it's stake in the club - more shares and more loans.
This is the most interesting part for me and support my theory that ARVO at some point will become our new owners.
And that ARVO is most likely owned - or part owned - by JS/sisu.
So is the increased interest because of increased loans from ARVO?
What seems to be the main reason for the increase in losses? Reduced commercial income from L1?
That isn't what I've said. I have said the club's owners cannot be solely blamed for such a stark drop off in support. It's odd how the same level of drop off didn't happen with clubs like Leicester, Norwich or Southampton (who have traditionally been on a similar level to Cov).
And whose fucking fault is that ?
"I know lads lets go watch City"
" Who we playing ? "
"Shrewsbury"
" Last season it was the likes of Leicester, Forest etc. Who wants to watch fucking Shrewsbury in division fucking 3 for 25 quid."
Only one lot to blame for relegation and that's Sisu.
Do you go to watch Cov or the opposition?
Lets be honest.....
At this point (annual losses of £7m+ & a debt of £40m+) even a return to the Ricoh, rent-free, & with 20,000 fans at every home game.....
...We are still fucked.....
Happy Thursday.
What planet are you on mate?
SISU fill the first team with youth players in 2011 after 3 years of piss poor management and INEVITABLY get us relegated. And you are suggesting they are blameless for the downturn in attendance?
osb - is the debts due within 12 months of 31/5/13 to show ARVO as the club's major creditor at the point of administration?
Well, with accounts like that reflecting the situation 9 months ago, anyone outside the club should be amazed we're still trading.
But then again ... Leicester just showed a loss of some £34m and that followed a loss the previous year of £30m.
Anyway, ARVO is increasing it's stake in the club - more shares and more loans.
This is the most interesting part for me and support my theory that ARVO at some point will become our new owners.
And that ARVO is most likely owned - or part owned - by JS/sisu.
Given that ARVO is clearly tied to SISU, I can't see what SISU have to gain from passing on a loss-making business to themselves. They're still taking losses, and writing off a debt to yourself, still leaves you in debt, doesn't it?
I support my club through thick and thin (apart from moving to a new town of course)
You seem to blame the 'fickle' nature of our fans for this? However the other clubs you mentioned were not being run by SISU. There has been a build up of frustration over their bizarre running of the club and their dismissive attitude to their customer base.
They are competing for the leisure money in people's pockets...people have to be entertained and get some reward/satisfaction from their outlay.
I don't think they deserve much sympathy and even less considering what has unfolded since the period these accounts cover. They have exacerbated the 'stark' drop off by taking the club away from it fan base. They have also done it before securing a suitable location to return to in the future.....madness
No - it is difficult when your average gate drops by 33% from 2012 to 2013 in fairness to them.
Every one of the clubs you have listed have had many successful league campaigns over the last 40 years, we have had none. Norwich several promotions, Forest promotions an European Cup, several Wembley appearances, Leicester promotions galore several League Cup finals, currently top of the Championship, whilst we've had 1987 and err 1987,that's it. With over 40 years of virtually continuing failure, it is a wonder we get anybody going. Unfortunately going to Sixfield seems to be the final 'nail in the coffin' for many fans.That's the fickle nature of Coventry fans. Other better fans still turned up. See Norwich, Forest, Leicester, Sheffield Wednesday, Man City, Sheffield United, Leeds, etc , etc.
You trying to be funny?
You say the last bit flippantly like its a side issue. I support the team as it is representative of the city I was born in, to have that affiliation taken away is a massive deal. My love for the club is not unconditional. You may be happy to be treated with utter contempt by the owners but I think I have a bit more respect for myself to be a nodding dog at the owners disposal.
That isn't what I've said. I have said the club's owners cannot be solely blamed for such a stark drop off in support. It's odd how the same level of drop off didn't happen with clubs like Leicester, Norwich or Southampton (who have traditionally been on a similar level to Cov).
What on earth are you on about, if they stayed in Coventry and paid the ~£400K rent/costs ACL were prepared to accept the crowds would have been 12,000+, it is SISU alone that moved the club no one else!
What on earth are you on about, if they stayed in Coventry and paid the ~£400K rent/costs ACL were prepared to accept the crowds would have been 12,000+, it is SISU alone that moved the club no one else!
To clean up the old debt to the original investors?
Yes, the club is still in deep red, but what if they actually
1) Acquired ACL 100%
2) Got promoted back to the championship
3) Got rid of the debts to the old funds (£29m)
If sisu themselves own ARVO the situation would look very good for them.
Mr Fisher said Arvo Master Fund Ltd is part of Mayfair-based Sisu, and is “Sisu’s hedge fund”
Again, that to me points to SISU taking money off themselves if you simply move from Otium to ARVO as the new owners of the club and clear down the debt.
See what you're saying - but SISU themselves only use investors money, don't they? In essence then, this would mean burning one set of investors to the tune of £30m, so that the new investors get a clean slate. I'm not sure this entirely adds up, because I think the new investors might be wary of going the same way.
In truth, it's so opaque, that I wouldn't claim to see it clearly. I think it is clear that ARVO is part of SISU though - from the article below
http://joinmust.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-79099.html
Again, that to me points to SISU taking money off themselves if you simply move from Otium to ARVO as the new owners of the club and clear down the debt.
With regard to SISU buying ACL, I think it's hard to see that happening any time soon - they'd have to convince both the Council and the Higgs to sell and given that they're in a court battle at the moment with both of those parties it's hard to see that moving anytime soon. Never say never though...
- yes in part but also a full year charge and settling out Ticketus plus interest seems to be being paid to the original investors now too
- Drop in turnover and increase in some costs cancelling the decrease in others.
the drop in turnover this year doesn't bare thinking about but there should be a drop in some costs too
Not taking money off themselves though if the original funds were not owned(!) but managed by sisu and if ARVO is owned (not just managed) by sisu.
Not taking money off themselves though if the original funds were not owned(!) but managed by sisu and if ARVO is owned (not just managed) by sisu.
I think that the following should impact the next set of accounts which will have an impact:
- There will be a saving on staff costs, stadium rental costs, players salaries, etc YES
- Income will be reduced by losing sponsorship, lack of adequate corporate hospitality and reduction in spectator attendance.YES
- Contract termination costs for players and other staff YES
- Costs for administration (process costs, administrator & legal costs) NO the administrator gets paid from the sale of the assets in CCFC Ltd
- Costs for liquidation (process costs, liquidator & legal costs) NO not on CCFC Ltd see administrator above. There will be some costs on CCFC H to meet but I wouldn't think much
- Legal Costs for the judicial review case POSSIBLY as SBS&L are one of the claimants
Can you confirm that these costs impact the next accounts?
Fair shout, but it's hard to imagine attracting many more investors if you treated them like this.
In truth I think the money put in via SISU (via ARVO, or otherwise) is all investors' funds. Entirely accept that it might be from different groups of investors, although I'm not completely certain that's how it works. Either way, I don't think SISU like spending their own money.
Can I ask a couple of questions please guys?
1. Don't sisu accorinding to this still owe the 590k to ACL from admin?
2. This was ages ago and why haven't they paid? Part of the deal was FL made sure ACL still got their 590k.
Pay it Otium. Why haven't they paid?
Are they waiting and can they say we will go back to Ricoh on a rental deal in the summer if you waive the 590k perhaps?
Thoughts?
That's the fickle nature of Coventry fans. Other better fans still turned up. See Norwich, Forest, Leicester, Sheffield Wednesday, Man City, Sheffield United, Leeds, etc , etc.
Can we not have the "fickle fans" crap again. People are rational beings on the whole, there's nothing different about the makeup of Coventry fans.
No success = no fans. Same at every club. If you want to grow the fanbase without success, you need to work overtime on community engagement, also something Sisu don't want to do.
And as others have said, all that happens in the business is their fault. The buck stops with them. They can't control circumstance, but they do control how they react.
The way hedge funds are set-up each investor is given the level of risk attached with what they're putting money into which will set their expectations accordingly. Since Sepalla is the one who gathers these funds it depends on how she sold the investment to these people as to how keen they'll be to get their money back.
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