So the real Poll (23 Viewers)

Kingokings204 · May 20, 2016

I

Deleted member 5849 said:
Why would we automatically take his word?

Indeed, the current quoted position is a big fat meh from them.

And if I were Wasps, I wouldn't want us there. We're a threat to their future success, we're in competition with them.

If I were Wasps, I'd have been praying we ended up building a ground in Rugby...

I don't automatically take his word but I don't see why he would lie and repeat it over and over again. He has never changed his tune.

Yes ultimately we need our own ground obviously but with the amount of time and money involved we can't do it.

Hobo · May 20, 2016

It is a flawed pole. Grendel has said "15,000 to start". Doesn't make sense as he is suggesting move to the Butts with 15,000 capacity and expand it if necessary. But my understanding is the Butts can only be developed to a maximum of 15000 anyway because of geographical restrictions?

Deleted member 5849 · May 20, 2016

Hobo said:
It is a flawed pole.

Zbigniew Boniek?

Deleted member 5849 · May 20, 2016

Brylowes said:
IF SISU disappeared I think the council would be more than helpful, SISU have
Alienated everyone they have come into contact with.

So, a council colludes with the current owners of a cultural asset, to help destroy it?

Grendel · May 20, 2016

Limey said:
Heart says f*ck you to CCC and wasps. A 15k (to begin with) stadium in the heart of the city will be a much more spirited, vibrant club.

Head agrees 100% with Otis

What would JH vote I wonder.

Hill would leave - he once was trying to move the club to the NEC.

chiefdave · May 20, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
Ask nick Eastwood the wasps ceo? He is quoted many times saying he wants ccfc at the Ricoh and why wouldn't they?

Brilliant, so we can believe every word coming from Wasps, who repeatedly lied to their fans. How do you know what deal they want us to stay on. For all we know they want to put the rent back up to previous levels and want us to stay to cover the cost of their bond issue.

Grendel · May 20, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
I

I don't automatically take his word but I don't see why he would lie and repeat it over and over again. He has never changed his tune.

Yes ultimately we need our own ground obviously but with the amount of time and money involved we can't do it.

So when he said wasps were committed to staying in the London area and when he said the majority of wasps fans live nearer to coventry than Wycombe on terms of drive time you believe him?

chiefdave · May 20, 2016

Hobo said:
It is a flawed pole. Grendel has said "15,000 to start". Doesn't make sense as he is suggesting move to the Butts with 15,000 capacity and expand it if necessary. But my understanding is the Butts can only be developed to a maximum of 15000 anyway because of geographical restrictions?

John Sharp - CRFC Chairman said:
We think 25,000 is the biggest we could fit there

Ian1779 · May 20, 2016

Wasps would love nothing more for us to fade into obscurity.

They'd be happy to keep us at their stadium, keep us under control as they slowly strip away all of our existence from there.

They won't negotiate with us.... They wouldn't actively risk giving us the tools to progress which would negatively impact on their intention to dominate the city.

Kingokings204 · May 20, 2016

Grendel said:
So when he said wasps were committed to staying in the London area and when he said the majority of wasps fans live nearer to coventry than Wycombe on terms of drive time you believe him?

Good point but things changed for him. A stadium came up cheap in Coventry with no other rugby team. I wouldn't take anything anyone said as gospel and I agree wasps would want us to fail but why have us there now at 100k rent if they wanted to fuck Us over? They could of just not offered us back and left us dying in Northampton? No?

Brylowes · May 20, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
So, a council colludes with the current owners of a cultural asset, to help destroy it?

They are the current owners, solely because of our current owners .
The council we're worn down (like everyone else) to such an extent by our owners
I think anybody offering a remotely acceptable amount would have had their hands
Ripped off, just to be rid of them.

chiefdave · May 20, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
why have us there now at 100k rent

Technically this was done before the sale to Wasps however I would be amazed if it wasn't part of the sale process. Personally think it was just a PR move. Wasps and CCC would have been given a much harder time if they had sold the stadium while we were in Northampton.

Hobo · May 20, 2016

Does that include what seems a bonkers idea of the sunken stadium where he said the car park would be where level 1 and level two met. I still want to know where he intends to put the gymnasium and the student flats to bring in revenue on a daily basis.

Sorry Dave but his announcement seemed to float loads of ideas and loads of potential with not much joined up thinking in between.

I think this venture is worth scrutiny and exploration. But I am still a long way from being convinced about its practicality.

stupot07 · May 20, 2016

Can people stop going on about 100k rent, that was part if the 2+2 year agreement, agreed prior to wasps buying the Ricoh, there's no chance the rent will stay that low when we extend our deal beyond 2018.

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Deleted member 5849 · May 20, 2016

Kingokings204 said:
A stadium came up cheap in Coventry with no other rugby team.

CRFC not count?

stupot07 · May 20, 2016

I am for the Butts stadium in principle but only if there is capacity to extend to 20-25k.

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ccfcway · May 20, 2016

Ian1779 said:
Wasps would love nothing more for us to fade into obscurity.

They'd be happy to keep us at their stadium, keep us under control as they slowly strip away all of our existence from there.

They won't negotiate with us.... They wouldn't actively risk giving us the tools to progress which would negatively impact on their intention to dominate the city.

we are a cash cow for wasps. we pay rent and they get a very large percentage of matchday income.

they don't want us to leave, but wont give ccfc what they want.

Ian1779 · May 20, 2016

ccfcway said:
we are a cash cow for wasps. we pay rent and they get a very large percentage of matchday income.

they don't want us to leave, but wont give ccfc what they want.

They won't want us to leave as they have control of our destiny.

The only way that would change is if we were somehow able to get to the PL in the next 2 years. They would not be happy about that at all.

Otis · May 20, 2016

Hobo said:
Does that include what seems a bonkers idea of the sunken stadium where he said the car park would be where level 1 and level two met. I still want to know where he intends to put the gymnasium and the student flats to bring in revenue on a daily basis.

Sorry Dave but his announcement seemed to float loads of ideas and loads of potential with not much joined up thinking in between.

I think this venture is worth scrutiny and exploration. But I am still a long way from being convinced about its practicality.

Does seem to be stuff of fantasy. It could expand to 25,000, but CRC don't want that and you can only surmise that if it was 25,000 there would be no room for any add-ons.

Aslo you have to factor in the cost invloved with a sunken pitch. That will surely add millions to the project.

My main reservation with this (if it was to by some chance happen), is that we build a 15,000 seater stadium, but that when we apply to expand to 25,000 in the future we won't be able to because of all the obstacles and difficulties in place. An extra 10,000 people is a hell of a lot and that will in turn see a dramatic rise in traffic and footfall and it could make a hell of a difference to the retirement village too.

Just think in terms of an extra 10,000 people merging on Spon End.

The Butts is a nice idea in theory, but practically there are so many obstacles in place and increased costs because adjustments will have to be made to the surrounding area.

Otis · May 20, 2016

Ian1779 said:
They won't want us to leave as they have control of our destiny.

The only way that would change is if we were somehow able to get to the PL in the next 2 years. They would not be happy about that at all.

Let's get there sharpish then!

skybluetony176 · May 20, 2016

Otis said:
Does seem to be stuff of fantasy. It could expand to 25,000, but CRC don't want that and you can only surmise that if it was 25,000 there would be no room for any add-ons.

Aslo you have to factor in the cost invloved with a sunken pitch. That will surely add millions to the project.

My main reservation with this, if it was to by some chance happen, is that we build a 15,000 seater stadium, but that when we apply to expand to 25,000 in the futrue we won't be able to because of all the obstacles in place. An extra 10,000 people is a hell of a lot and that will in turn see a dramatic rise in traffic and footfall and it could make a hell of a difference to the retirement village too.

Just think in terms of an extra 10,000 people merging on Spon End.

It's a nice idea in theory, but practically there are so many obstacles in place and increased costs because adjustments will have to be made to the surrounding area.

There's absolutely no guarantee that the extra 10k will ever be able to happen. If we're going to move it has to be into a 25k stadium. It's a massive gamble otherwise and if it a gamble that doesn't come of we're fucked forever lumbered with an inadequate stadium.

We could always do what MK dons did and build a 25K capacity structure and then add the seats at a later date. Aren't they saying it would be two tear? Just seat and open the bottom tiers.

chiefdave · May 20, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
There's absolutely no guarantee that the extra 10k will ever be able to happen.

To be honest I'd move to a 15K stadium and worry about it later. Would be better off owning a stadium, at least in part, and selling it out every week than half filling a stadium we don't own.

Would certainly make us a lot more attractive to new owners.

Nick · May 20, 2016

Can we spin this like the telegraph and claim it is what the fans want?

Hobo · May 20, 2016

chiefdave said:
To be honest I'd move to a 15K stadium and worry about it later. Would be better off owning a stadium, at least in part, and selling it out every week than half filling a stadium we don't own.

Would certainly make us a lot more attractive to new owners.

No you can't worry about it later? We are a basket case. We need a viable plan to climb out of this mess. We can't afford a false dawn and squander money we clearly haven't got on developing a stadium that doesn't meet our needs.

Why didn't SISU target Broadstreet who have a rake of land and a history of selling and moving? Earlsdon RFC probably have more land than CRFC?

skybluetony176 · May 20, 2016

chiefdave said:
To be honest I'd move to a 15K stadium and worry about it later. Would be better off owning a stadium, at least in part, and selling it out every week than half filling a stadium we don't own.

Would certainly make us a lot more attractive to new owners.

That is without doubt the stupidest thing you've ever said. Worry about it later. Seriously? People complaining renting at the Ricoh hindering us to a championship-league one yo-yo club. 15K capacity still with shared revenue's (and smaller revenue's at that), historical debt to service and new debt to service from the development we'll be lucky if we're a league two-league one yo-yo club. Still we stuck two fingers up to everyone on SISU's list so that's all that matters.

CCC have it right to promote Coventry as a Rugby City, they're ahead of the game. The only team that will benefit from the BPA being stuck at 15K is CRFC, Coventry will have two Rugby teams slugging it out at the top of the Rugby Union pyramid while CCFC will be slugging it out with Coventry United at the bottom of the football pyramid.

This is a recipe for disaster. I'll follow CCFC regardless, I enjoy non league football but alot of people are going to have to lower their expectations. Enjoy next season it could be our best for a long time.

skybluetony176 · May 20, 2016

Nick said:
Can we spin this like the telegraph and claim it is what the fans want?

The fans don't have the facts and figures to make an informed decision on what they want. Do you think we'll ever see that information.

skybluetony176 · May 21, 2016

Hobo said:
Why didn't SISU target Broadstreet who have a rake of land and a history of selling and moving? Earlsdon RFC probably have more land than CRFC?

Probably because those options are viable. A bluff is only a bluff if it's never going to happen.

chiefdave · May 21, 2016

Hobo said:
No you can't worry about it later? We are a basket case. We need a viable plan to climb out of this mess. We can't afford a false dawn and squander money we clearly haven't got on developing a stadium that doesn't meet our needs.

Why can't you? If a 15K stadium wth the possibility to expanding to 25K is more financially viable for the club moving forward then as far as I'm concerned we should move.

If, and given our attendance history its a big if, we reach a point where the ground is sold out every week and people can't get tickets we will be in a much healthier position than we are now and be far more likely to attract a new owner who can move us forward.

The other option is stay at the Ricoh long term. Nobody will buy us in that position, we'll be stuck with SISU for a long time to come

skybluetony176 said:
That is without doubt the stupidest thing you've ever said. Worry about it later. Seriously? People complaining renting at the Ricoh hindering us to a championship-league one yo-yo club. 15K capacity still with shared revenue's (and smaller revenue's at that), historical debt to service and new debt to service from the development we'll be lucky if we're a league two-league one yo-yo club.

Given that you seem to have all the detail of the Butts proposal perhaps you could share it with the rest of us. The likes of yourself and italia have been saying for months we should explore all options and take the best root forward. Now it looks like there's the slightest chance that might be happening you're scrambling for us to stay at the Ricoh.

skybluetony176 · May 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
Why can't you? If a 15K stadium wth the possibility to expanding to 25K is more financially viable for the club moving forward then as far as I'm concerned we should move.

If, and given our attendance history its a big if, we reach a point where the ground is sold out every week and people can't get tickets we will be in a much healthier position than we are now and be far more likely to attract a new owner who can move us forward.

The other option is stay at the Ricoh long term. Nobody will buy us in that position, we'll be stuck with SISU for a long time to come

Given that you seem to have all the detail of the Butts proposal perhaps you could share it with the rest of us. The likes of yourself and italia have been saying for months we should explore all options and take the best root forward. Now it looks like there's the slightest chance that might be happening you're scrambling for us to stay at the Ricoh.

You're assuming that extending to 25K is a possibility. There is no guarantee that it's even a possibility. I thought this move is about securing CCFC a future with the ability to move up the leagues? The it will be alright attitude that you're demonstrating is exactly the attitude that started dumping us in the shit in the first place. Arena 2000 was all done on a wing and a prayer and you want to do it all over again. Have you seriously learned nothing from the last couple of decades of CCFC history?

chiefdave · May 21, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
You're assuming that extending to 25K is a possibility. There is no guarantee that it's even a possibility. I thought this move is about securing CCFC a future with the ability to move up the leagues? The it will be alright attitude that you're demonstrating is exactly the attitude that started dumping us in the shit in the first place. Arena 2000 was all done on a wing and a prayer and you want to do it all over again. Have you seriously learned nothing from the last couple of decades of CCFC history?

Why is it more likely we will move up the leagues staying at the Ricoh if it is shown a move to the Butts is the better option financially?

Nobody is suggesting doing it on a wing and a prayer but there are a small group on here who wish to dismiss the idea out of hand and sign up as Wasps tenants for the long term without any knowledge of how good or bad a deal we might be able to negotiate.

I say again a club that is successful on and of the pitch and selling out a 25K, or even 15K stadium week in week out is a far more attractive proposition to me than a third full Ricoh constantly battling to break even.

Brylowes · May 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
Why is it more likely we will move up the leagues staying at the Ricoh if it is shown a move to the Butts is the better option financially?

Nobody is suggesting doing it on a wing and a prayer but there are a small group on here who wish to dismiss the idea out of hand and sign up as Wasps tenants for the long term without any knowledge of how good or bad a deal we might be able to negotiate.

I say again a club that is successful on and of the pitch and selling out a 25K, or even 15K stadium week in week out is a far more attractive proposition to me than a third full Ricoh constantly battling to break even.

So what makes you think we would be successful on and off the pitch, selling out a 25k or 15k
Stadium every week ?

Otis · May 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
To be honest I'd move to a 15K stadium and worry about it later.

Really? Sounds like very short term and blinkered thinking that. So you would be prepared for tens and tens of millions to be shelled out on something that may not be fit for purpose in 10 years?

We need to be looking at securing our long term future, not panicking into jumping into something with our eyes closed and only concentrating on the here and now.

I think a 'worry about it later' approach has already caused us a tremendous amount of grief over a number of years.

Whatever we do we need to make sure we do it right and it needs to be a long term plan. Worrying about it later worries me greatly.

Deleted member 5849 · May 21, 2016

chiefdave said:
Why is it more likely we will move up the leagues staying at the Ricoh if it is shown a move to the Butts is the better option financially?

Nobody is suggesting doing it on a wing and a prayer but there are a small group on here who wish to dismiss the idea out of hand and sign up as Wasps tenants for the long term without any knowledge of how good or bad a deal we might be able to negotiate.

I say again a club that is successful on and of the pitch and selling out a 25K, or even 15K stadium week in week out is a far more attractive proposition to me than a third full Ricoh constantly battling to break even.

It also depends how it's done. The Brighton temp move got them in the right place (until they moved to a ground outside of Brighton now ) while they waited for their ground to be built. Capacity was too small, it was poor facilities. But... it focussed the mind on finding a permanent solution, and also built up a pent-up demand for tickets, where tickets became a rare commodity to be fought over. That meant when they *did* move to Falmer, that pent-up demand saw the stadium move a massive success.

Currently 15k would be fine. 25k would be alright if it's possible to extend, so a permanent home could be there. 15k in a better location and with the ability to forge a distinct identity (if our marketing's awful, then having both CRFC and CCFC at the Butts offers no end of hooks for them being the Coventry teams in the City) could help us immensely, and increase visibility no end.

Plus if we won promotion to the top flight then, forget about building a new ground, we could buy the old peoples flats and knock em down

Or if needs be buy the Ricoh off Wasps and send them to Glasgow.

(Or we could move to Glasgow)

Deleted member 5849 · May 21, 2016

Also worth noting SISU have fiddled while CCFC burns. We need to push them to move forward on plans beyond mere rhetoric. Here's the most firm idea they've come up with, so they need to be allowed to run with it to show it can work (and is real) rather than it just being rejected instantly.

At the very least, running with it shows CCC there's a demand for a CCFC home in the city, and CCFC want that too. So even if the Butts doesn't work, they need to help us find one... At the moment there's zero incentive for them to assist, or SISU to try and find one, as everybody just shrugs their shoulders and decide computer says no. Sometimes, you have to play the game...

tisza · May 21, 2016

part of me just wonders whether we'd be even having this type of discussion now if the season hadn't fallen away so badly and we'd at least have still be in the play-offs or better.
maybe then a 15k stadium wouldn't be so popular and there'd be more support to redo a Ricoh deal (despite Wasps position on it etc.)

So the real Poll (23 Viewers)

If it is a 15,000 capacity to start should we push to move from the Ricoh?

Yes

No

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