So where would we be better off (1 Viewer)

torchomatic · Jun 2, 2013

I want us to own our own staidum. If that is the Ricoh, then great. Just get ACL to sell it to us. If they can't or they won't I would be perfectly happy to play at the Ricoh until our own purpose built venue was ready.

I don't understand why so many on here want to continually back ACL rather than their club? Why are so many determined to show how the Ricoh would survive without us?

I want what's best for my club, at the moment, it's plain that doesn't involve SISU or ACL, so get rid of them both and I'll be perfectly happy.

sky blue john said:
I don't understand why ,Grendel,sbt,grego and torch want this new miniature stadium and have fallen again into Sisu bull shit land.

Do you really think Sisu want only the match day revenue ?

1940 oldfive · Jun 2, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Can you point to one thing SISU have built?

yes a bloody big debt:claping hands:

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
I don't understand why ,Grendel,sbt,grego and torch want this new miniature stadium and have fallen again into Sisu bull shit land.

Do you really think Sisu want only the match day revenue ?

Can you read? I've made quite explicit that I don't want to leave the RICOH but, owning a stadium is better than leasing one.

Do the maths.

torchomatic · Jun 2, 2013

Yes, that's you personally, but as I stated earlier. What bi-weekly event would attract the same crowds as the football club? The Council and ACL would NEVER in a MILLION YEARS be able to put on an event that would match those crowds. Which is why this all needs sorting out.

simple_simon said:
Lets face it the Council cannot let the Ricoh struggle.
Am sure they would not allow another stadium to be built and it was it would take years to get planning permission, if it happens it will not be in Coventry.

I have been to two exhibitions and often go to casino so I would still visit but that's me personally.

torchomatic · Jun 2, 2013

No he can't. All he has is the pathetic "pro-SISU" argument with which he throws at anyone who dares to say "But what if..."

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Can you read? I've made quite explicit that I don't want to leave the RICOH but, owning a stadium is better than leasing one.

Do the maths.

simple_simon · Jun 2, 2013

Do not disagree with getting rid of both. but only one has told lies, failed at most things, does not care about the supporters, not paid the rent and wants us to play outside of Coventry.

RFC · Jun 2, 2013

Grendel said:
I was going to post this in a thread from a comment by steveb50 but thought I would open it up as I think the theory behind the question is relevant to a lot of people's thought processes. 
 
The question is; 
 
If the football club could um August walk into a 15,000 stadium fully owned less than 4 miles from the city centre would that be better than staying at the Ricoh? 
 
To me its 100% yes.

Definite YES

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Whoosh.. that went right past you, built as in a building or structure..

Why's it relevant? SISU or anyone weren't in a position to build anything in the first place. :facepalm:

We had a stadium, we have a training ground, what else could we build?

Bluegloucester · Jun 2, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Can you read? I've made quite explicit that I don't want to leave the RICOH but, owning a stadium is better than leasing one.

Do the maths.

You do the maths, building a stadium does not add up. Fool.

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Can you read? I've made quite explicit that I don't want to leave the RICOH but, owning a stadium is better than leasing one.

Do the maths.

I've done the maths and we would be worse off under sisu's funding plan of the new stadium, maybe you can explain different ?

parking and a few extra hot dogs are not going to save us !!!!!

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
You do the maths, building a stadium does not add up. Fool.

I'm the fool?

If you rent a stadium, you're always paying, not as much as building a stadium, in the short term, but over time, there's a break even point when you build a stadium and from then, you start making money, of course, when you rent, you don't get that.

Or am I missing something? Care to tell me what! How do benefit from renting the RICOH whilst getting no revenue? Worst of both worlds!

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
I've done the maths and we would be worse off under sisu's funding plan of the new stadium, maybe you can explain different ?

parking and a few extra hot dogs are not going to save us !!!!!

What maths when there aren't any figures to add up?!

If the club has lost c. 10m in renting the RICOH already, in less than 10 years, how is that sustainable? That's 10m we would've saved had we owned our stadium.

Owning or renting! Owning is more economically viable in the long term - 10, 20, 30 years, over some period of time owning your stadium become more economically viable than renting. That's what we all (should) want, a long term plan for a successful club.

If you think it's just about parking and F&B then you seriously don't have a clue.

torchomatic · Jun 2, 2013

PLease do publish them on here today. I look forward to reading them.

sky blue john said:
I've done the maths and we would be worse off under sisu's funding plan of the new stadium, maybe you can explain different ?

parking and a few extra hot dogs are not going to save us !!!!!

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
What maths when there aren't any figures to add up?!

Sisu are not going to hand a developer 20million. they have already said they won't be paying for it up front. So i should imagine this will be like a mortgage which would probably cost a lot more than 400k a year. Especially when Sisu also add on a figure for us to rent our own stadium.
SO FOR THE NOT SO CLEVER FANS WE HAVE WE WILL BE PAYING A MORTGAGE AND RENT !!!!!!

stupot07 · Jun 2, 2013

James Smith said:
So why are they making the improvements to the arena then?

You believe that spin? The reason they have made improvements is to improve income for ACL as it had been struggling financially and was totally reliant on the football club.

Whatever PWKH says the reason for the improvements were not for the future beneft of ccfc.

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

It will be interesting to find out what Sisu will charge us in rent to use our own stadium !!!!

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

Please SBT Torch please enlighten me how you think we will be better off ?

Bluegloucester · Jun 2, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I'm the fool?

If you rent a stadium, you're always paying, not as much as building a stadium, in the short term, but over time, there's a break even point when you build a stadium and from then, you start making money, of course, when you rent, you don't get that.

Or am I missing something? Care to tell me what! How do benefit from renting the RICOH whilst getting no revenue? Worst of both worlds!

You are not comparing like for like, building a comparable stadium to the Ricoh with non football revenues would be more expensive. Building a stadium with no other facilities is pointless as it would not pay for itself.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
Sisu are not going to hand a developer 20million. they have already said they won't be paying for it up front. So i should imagine this will be like a mortgage which would probably cost a lot more than 400k a year. Especially when Sisu also add on a figure for us to rent our own stadium.
SO FOR THE NOT SO CLEVER FANS WE HAVE WE WILL BE PAYING A MORTGAGE AND RENT !!!!!!

When the mortgage does get paid off, it's all plain sailing - hence I say it's better in the long term.

No, where does it say anything about renting this new HR2!?

Anyway, that wasn't the given scenario, the scenario was owning your stadium or renting it.

cloughie · Jun 2, 2013

Any new stadium would never be owned by CCFC only rented from sisu

If anyone believes different then you are more gullible than I could ever have imagined

lifelongcityfan · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
Sisu are not going to hand a developer 20million. they have already said they won't be paying for it up front. So i should imagine this will be like a mortgage which would probably cost a lot more than 400k a year. Especially when Sisu also add on a figure for us to rent our own stadium.
SO FOR THE NOT SO CLEVER FANS WE HAVE WE WILL BE PAYING A MORTGAGE AND RENT !!!!!!

Agreed.. TF stated on Thursday that the stadium will be paid for largely bydebt , with some more equity.
so by the time it is finished , ccfc will owe c110m. SISU will increase the Interest charges applied to CCFC ( remember they are borrowing to fund this!).have a stadium that is 2nd rate, with mediocre sposnsorship reenues . WE will be in the 4th divsion, and attendances will be 2-3K..
If SBT or anyone else thinks that makes sense, the dream on!

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

Bluegloucester said:
You are not comparing like for like, building a comparable stadium to the Ricoh with non football revenues would be more expensive. Building a stadium with no other facilities is pointless as it would not pay for itself.

I think you find it would, that's why very basic stadiums like Huish Park, Gresty Road etc. allow those clubs to be self sustainable. A basic 20-25k stadium would make us very sustainable.

It doesn't matter that the RICOH has all these facilities, we don't benefit from them so that argument, is, well, void, because we only rent the basic stuff of a stadium but we make no revenue off match day, and worse still, we pay for the privilege whilst maintaining the the ground (pitch etc.) we don't gain anything from renting the RICOH. All we have is a distant dream of owning a share in ACL.

lifelongcityfan · Jun 2, 2013

SBT..and the 110m debt?

Skybluerevolution (Pt2) · Jun 2, 2013

only if it has a retractable pitch and roof...

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

You have no argument Sbt give up.
now your changing your the size of the stadium how about adding a casino and conference facilities ?

RogerH · Jun 2, 2013

I find it incredible that people can't see what SISU's intentions are here. Any new stadium they build will not be owned by CCFC, it will be owned by SISU. The football club will be charged a rent for using the stadium, plus the construction costs and interest on loans will be settled on the club. Once SISU have the ground, it will provide them with exactly what they want, an asset they can borrow against and a way in which they can manage money and debt. That is all they are interested in. Once they have that they will have no interest in the football club, other than just to keep it ticking over. Bear in mind, we are dealing with a bunch of ruthless sharks here. Our future surely has to be at the Ricoh with new owners, after all ACL, the Council and Higgs are only guilty of being anti SISU, just as most fans are.

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

Nothing will be sustainable under Sisu's fees escalated costs and then interest on top of that !!!!

sky blue john · Jun 2, 2013

Parasites own our club and Sbt, Grendel, torch and grego support them and their actions !!!

grego_gee · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
You have no argument Sbt give up.
now your changing your the size of the stadium how about adding a casino and conference facilities ?

Maybe that's why we added it onto the Ricoh?
to get more revenue for the club!
How did that work out?

imp:

grego_gee · Jun 2, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
I think you find it would, that's why very basic stadiums like Huish Park, Gresty Road etc. allow those clubs to be self sustainable. A basic 20-25k stadium would make us very sustainable.

It doesn't matter that the RICOH has all these facilities, we don't benefit from them so that argument, is, well, void, because we only rent the basic stuff of a stadium but we make no revenue off match day, and worse still, we pay for the privilege whilst maintaining the the ground (pitch etc.) we don't gain anything from renting the RICOH. All we have is a distant dream of owning a share in ACL.

We don't even rent! we time share!
We pay for match days only!
Its not a home, its just a bunch of away matches at one place nearby!
AND THEN THE COUNCIL CHARGE US RATES!

imp:

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

lifelongcityfan said:
SBT..and the 110m debt?

Where have you got 50m from? They're looking at 30m.

Some will probably get wiped when we come out of admin, then the stadium money will get paid off over time.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
Parasites own our club and Sbt, Grendel, torch and grego support them and their actions !!!

Parasite: - An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. derogatory. A person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.

I think that could applied to ACL as well.

Black6Osprey · Jun 2, 2013

The idea of a ground share and relocating in a few years would be death of the club. The idea of moving into a theoretical fantasy stadium without the wait, would ultimately give us the same result. SISU have already shown us that giving CCFC a whole load of debt is one of the few things they have actually achieved during their tenure. How anyone can think attaching another £30M debt to build a worse stadium than we already have access to is a good idea I'm not sure, but it's not one that I share.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

sky blue john said:
You have no argument Sbt give up.
now your changing your the size of the stadium how about adding a casino and conference facilities ?

I've always said 20-25k so I'm not changing anything, 15k or less is simply pointless.

Facilities we don't benefit from anyway.

Still waiting for you to publish your maths...

By your logic, I assume you'd rather rent your home than buy one? So when you're old, you won't enjoy life more when you've paid off your mortgage but rather you're still burdened with paying rent.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 2, 2013

Black6Osprey said:
The idea of a ground share and relocating in a few years would be death of the club. The idea of moving into a theoretical fantasy stadium without the wait, would ultimately give us the same result. SISU have already shown us that giving CCFC a whole load of debt is one of the few things they have actually achieved during their tenure. How anyone can think attaching another £30M debt to build a worse stadium than we already have access to is a good idea I'm not sure, but it's not one that I share.

And renting our stadium for 1.28m p/a whilst we get no revenue streams from it has contributed greatly to our current demise.

So where would we be better off (1 Viewer)

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