S
skyblue2k
Guest
So with finally being deducted 10 points, does this mean the Administrator is running the Football Club?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Hopefully the administrator and he wants to sell
warwickcccfc
New Member
He's appointed by SISU, so I don't think it'll be that simple.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
the administrator is independant by law
he will now be running the club
he will now be running the club
Stafford_SkBlue
Well-Known Member
Its not clear to me yet.
The only creditor appears to be acl.
Normall the bank if owed money would put holdings in admin, but sisu borrowed from themselves. Appears to be no othet external creditor.
I imagine holdings will carry on the golden share transferred over.
Not what we wanted. Hopefully proved wrong
The only creditor appears to be acl.
Normall the bank if owed money would put holdings in admin, but sisu borrowed from themselves. Appears to be no othet external creditor.
I imagine holdings will carry on the golden share transferred over.
Not what we wanted. Hopefully proved wrong
SonofErnie
Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to see the statement on the points deduction from the administrator and/or CCFCH. If CCFCH doesn't make one, then I think we'll know where we stand, otherwise as I suspect it will be 6 weeks before we find out.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
mark82
Super Moderator
Should be but it's a good question. Need to wait an see what comes out in the next few games I guess.
hutch1972
Well-Known Member
Running ccfc ltd, what about ccfch
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
message to the administrator / legal persons, etc.,
don't penalise the team or the fans,
take on the perpetrators of this mess,
PUSB
don't penalise the team or the fans,
take on the perpetrators of this mess,
PUSB
ampthill_sba
New Member
It just isnt clear:
The administrator is running CCFC Ltd for sure but SISU feel it's a useless little subsid so they will be fighting the administration of CCFC Holdings Ltd.
The FL feel that as one company is in admin the 'football club' is therefore in admin which is a view shared by the court and ACL but not SISU imo...And means the 10 point deduction won't be rescinded.
SISU would not want the administrator to have access to the assets on CCFC holdings Ltd as he'd certainly look for a new buyer as this could clear the debt which is th administrators job.
SISU have made a massive tactical error and are poking pins in their eyes now trying to work out why they thought the FL golden share was in CCFC Holdings when the court has accepted the FLs view that it's not!!
The administrator can't sell CCFC ltd to new owners as there's nothing to sell. The assets are not owned by that company and we know that the FL golden share is not an NFL style transferable franchise that can be bought and sold.
The administrator will be urgently seeking to get both companies into admin or seek the debt to be paid by SISU (compromise on the amount and get a new deal) and bring the club back out of administration bizarrely without anyone else's help.
The only way we can get new owners is if the CCFC holdings goes into admin too which imo is very unlikely despite what the FL might think.
The administrator is running CCFC Ltd for sure but SISU feel it's a useless little subsid so they will be fighting the administration of CCFC Holdings Ltd.
The FL feel that as one company is in admin the 'football club' is therefore in admin which is a view shared by the court and ACL but not SISU imo...And means the 10 point deduction won't be rescinded.
SISU would not want the administrator to have access to the assets on CCFC holdings Ltd as he'd certainly look for a new buyer as this could clear the debt which is th administrators job.
SISU have made a massive tactical error and are poking pins in their eyes now trying to work out why they thought the FL golden share was in CCFC Holdings when the court has accepted the FLs view that it's not!!
The administrator can't sell CCFC ltd to new owners as there's nothing to sell. The assets are not owned by that company and we know that the FL golden share is not an NFL style transferable franchise that can be bought and sold.
The administrator will be urgently seeking to get both companies into admin or seek the debt to be paid by SISU (compromise on the amount and get a new deal) and bring the club back out of administration bizarrely without anyone else's help.
The only way we can get new owners is if the CCFC holdings goes into admin too which imo is very unlikely despite what the FL might think.
BurbageSkyBlues
New Member
If someone buys CCFC ltd, what do they get? Without assets, apart from possibly the FL share, there is nothing to purchase - no players, no building/land/facilities. Apart from an alleged £60m debt. This seems to make it unlikely that anyone would buy CCFC ltd. Hence, Sisu can only be aiming for CCFC ltd to be liquidated, and write off the rental arrears.....all other debts appear to be owed to themselves, by the sound of it? Could they buy it themselves, and agree their own CVA?
Which leaves us where, at the start of next year?
Even if someone can buy CCFC ltd, with the FL share, there are no players, as these are contracted to holdings ltd.....so what happens to them? They then have no team or club to play for. Right now, I don't understand how we put a team on the pitch, calling that team 'ccfc', unless the two entities (CCFC & ccfc holdings) are considered one and the same...
Which leaves us where, at the start of next year?
Even if someone can buy CCFC ltd, with the FL share, there are no players, as these are contracted to holdings ltd.....so what happens to them? They then have no team or club to play for. Right now, I don't understand how we put a team on the pitch, calling that team 'ccfc', unless the two entities (CCFC & ccfc holdings) are considered one and the same...
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
But if this ccfc ltd own this golden share, their only asset and it is bought, ccfc holdings have no right to the share therefore cannot put a team out . This could be down to how the Football League interpratate this. Ccfc ltd as the shareholder are the member of the competition, the FL, and as documented a seperate company to ccfc holdngs. Sisu may well have boobed on this. As for players contracts so what, we get others, sounds harsh but thats life and it's one way of getting rid of Bell.
BurbageSkyBlues
New Member
Agree with those two replies- my main concern is, however, how likely is it that someone wants to buy an entity with no assets and with a massive debt. I appreciate that the debt has to be settled at x pence in the pound, but that has to be accepted by the creditor(s), which is mainly Sisu (notwithstanding arguments about the legitimacy or accuracy of that). So, if Sisu don't accept the terms, then is CCFC liquidated ?
The alternative is that the courts rule that the two entities are acting as one, or that maybe the parent co. is responsible for the debt, if given that all assets were transferred , free of charge, out to holdings.
The way it looks, to me (interpretation) is that CCFC has been paying the bills, while holdings ltd has had the revenue (income) streams.....?
The alternative is that the courts rule that the two entities are acting as one, or that maybe the parent co. is responsible for the debt, if given that all assets were transferred , free of charge, out to holdings.
The way it looks, to me (interpretation) is that CCFC has been paying the bills, while holdings ltd has had the revenue (income) streams.....?
ampthill_sba
New Member
They (SISU) will only be able to use the admin of CCFC ltd to negotiate and better rent deal with ACL with the mediation they wanted (admin and FL involvement).
They can't liquidate CCFC ltd unless they move the golden share to CCFC holdings formally with the FL permission.
The FL may yet force SISU to bring the assets and player registrations to CCFC ltd from CCFC holdings so it's all together. Then it will be saleable AND the FL will then need to close the loophole.
They can't liquidate CCFC ltd unless they move the golden share to CCFC holdings formally with the FL permission.
The FL may yet force SISU to bring the assets and player registrations to CCFC ltd from CCFC holdings so it's all together. Then it will be saleable AND the FL will then need to close the loophole.
standupforcity
Well-Known Member
So who's bank account is credited with my ticket purchase?
I reckon you're bang on there.
covboy1987
Well-Known Member
The future in administration
Everyone might as well forget talking about the finances, etc. and pick the baton back up middle of May because you will get little sense off anyone until that date, rumours will be flying about which will give people hope then bring them down again.
SISU are a hardnosed business and being a hedge fund have to act on behalf of investors so love of the club does not come into it.
Nothing will be sorted until the following time line is followed, which gives SISU plenty of time to plan ahead and as a company try and recoup as much monies as possible before winding the company or selling on (hopefully not the first plan)
Issues to watch & important dates (bold)
1.10 points deducted yesterday (1st round)
2. Football league meeting 11th April (Coventry on the agenda -apparently) which is concerning with rumours of unregistered players (my guess that meeting will be adjourned until the outcome of the court investigations 6 weeks when FL will act if necessary)
3. Debenture of 8.5 million owned by yet another company AVIA that may actually own the players contracts which may then give them the rights to sell on which they may do irrelevant of what is going on around them.
4. Week commencing 8th May- Judge at high court studies reports on both CCFC companies (adjourned for six weeks from yesterday) which I understand from reading ACL as the largest creditor have personally asked the judge to look into. That information maybe then used by the football league to punish us again if it contains inappropriate dealings.
SISU will not negotiate on anything till they look at results from the court investigations on week commencing 8th May as they would be mad to plan anything without knowing where they stand and in any case, they cannot plan a lot at the moment as CCC & ACL have basically washed their hands.
SISU has long ago set up a situation whereby their assets are fully protected for the future if they, then decide after the court results in May its worth carrying on as a going concern, then they will (I very much doubt it) they will either cash their assets in and winde the company up (if bloody minded) or set up the company for sale to the highest bidder (most likely option) which is probably going to be the final outcome.
The price they will ask will be mainly on the basis of the potential of the fan base and stadium for new owners (little bit of how it was sold to them)
The administrator although i am quite sure is impartial in all of this will listen to arguments SISU put forward such as awaiting court investigations etc and SISU being experienced in all of this will not be in a hurry to sort anything out as already shown and Portsmouth have shown (1 year)
This club will not die as the Fans,CCC, & ACL will not let it do so and next season, we will no doubt have new owners with the backing of CCC and ACL but could be starting in the 2nd division. If so its onwards something we should have gone through the pain of before SISU purchased us (hindsight)
Everyone might as well forget talking about the finances, etc. and pick the baton back up middle of May because you will get little sense off anyone until that date, rumours will be flying about which will give people hope then bring them down again.
SISU are a hardnosed business and being a hedge fund have to act on behalf of investors so love of the club does not come into it.
Nothing will be sorted until the following time line is followed, which gives SISU plenty of time to plan ahead and as a company try and recoup as much monies as possible before winding the company or selling on (hopefully not the first plan)
Issues to watch & important dates (bold)
1.10 points deducted yesterday (1st round)
2. Football league meeting 11th April (Coventry on the agenda -apparently) which is concerning with rumours of unregistered players (my guess that meeting will be adjourned until the outcome of the court investigations 6 weeks when FL will act if necessary)
3. Debenture of 8.5 million owned by yet another company AVIA that may actually own the players contracts which may then give them the rights to sell on which they may do irrelevant of what is going on around them.
4. Week commencing 8th May- Judge at high court studies reports on both CCFC companies (adjourned for six weeks from yesterday) which I understand from reading ACL as the largest creditor have personally asked the judge to look into. That information maybe then used by the football league to punish us again if it contains inappropriate dealings.
SISU will not negotiate on anything till they look at results from the court investigations on week commencing 8th May as they would be mad to plan anything without knowing where they stand and in any case, they cannot plan a lot at the moment as CCC & ACL have basically washed their hands.
SISU has long ago set up a situation whereby their assets are fully protected for the future if they, then decide after the court results in May its worth carrying on as a going concern, then they will (I very much doubt it) they will either cash their assets in and winde the company up (if bloody minded) or set up the company for sale to the highest bidder (most likely option) which is probably going to be the final outcome.
The price they will ask will be mainly on the basis of the potential of the fan base and stadium for new owners (little bit of how it was sold to them)
The administrator although i am quite sure is impartial in all of this will listen to arguments SISU put forward such as awaiting court investigations etc and SISU being experienced in all of this will not be in a hurry to sort anything out as already shown and Portsmouth have shown (1 year)
This club will not die as the Fans,CCC, & ACL will not let it do so and next season, we will no doubt have new owners with the backing of CCC and ACL but could be starting in the 2nd division. If so its onwards something we should have gone through the pain of before SISU purchased us (hindsight)
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Actually, the frozen bank accounts may be the reason why Fisher is saying holdings is the operational part of the club. It could be a simple as the holdings accounts not being frozen that they started paying staff from them.
ampthill_sba
New Member
I think you're right...if they can 'carry on regardless' they must have bank accounts open, so it makes sense its CCFC holdings
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
There are no frozen bank accounts
Diehard Si
New Member
Well until I hear otherwise I assume it's still Sisu.
This will only change when Holdings is placed into admin. It's irrelevant what the FL think (and the 10 points).. What matters here is the legal state, and that is currently only Ltd in admin.
If it stays like this then it's all for nothing. We will be - 10 points and stuck with Sisu and no stadium.
Be careful what you wish for here.. A regime change is going to need Holdings dragged into admin and CVA's etc. This I'd going to be painful, it will mean further penalties. However I personally would take a short term penalty here for long term resoluton. The club can't continue as it is, it's not viable.
CCFC is for life, not just this or next season.
My son is 8 months old, I want the CCFC he knows to be a debt free positive club. I'd take a few more years of pain for that.
We NEED a club owning the stadium. This is can't happen with the involved parties.
This will only change when Holdings is placed into admin. It's irrelevant what the FL think (and the 10 points).. What matters here is the legal state, and that is currently only Ltd in admin.
If it stays like this then it's all for nothing. We will be - 10 points and stuck with Sisu and no stadium.
Be careful what you wish for here.. A regime change is going to need Holdings dragged into admin and CVA's etc. This I'd going to be painful, it will mean further penalties. However I personally would take a short term penalty here for long term resoluton. The club can't continue as it is, it's not viable.
CCFC is for life, not just this or next season.
My son is 8 months old, I want the CCFC he knows to be a debt free positive club. I'd take a few more years of pain for that.
We NEED a club owning the stadium. This is can't happen with the involved parties.
Black6Osprey
New Member
Yeah that's what I thought when I had a son. He's 10 now and supports Man U. Even though I've taken him numerous times to watch City, he just laughs at how crap we are.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
When will we get the factual answer to this question
Diehard Si
New Member
There's no way mine will support man u. Haha. He'd sleep outside.