SOMETHING ABOUT JR D (51 Viewers)

chiefdave · Dec 7, 2016

Think this is right, sure OSB can confirm.

Otium trade as CCFC but Otium are owned by Arvo and Sky Blues Sports and Leisure.

SBS&L is owned by Brody and Sconsnet

Arvo and Sconsnet are investment funds managed by SISU (not sure about Arvo as that's registered in the Caymans).

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
It isn't the same thing you know.

Tell that to OSB58!

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Grendel said:
So if someone buys ccfc they buy sisu as well?

Are you sure about that?

If someone buys CCFC they in effect buy Otium. SISU have tied so many knots that they own CCFC when it suits them but don't when it doesn't. All done through manipulating the system to suit what's best for them.

idm1975 · Dec 8, 2016

Grendel said:
So if someone buys ccfc they buy sisu as well?

Are you sure about that?

They would be buying an arm of their business wouldnt they?

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Tell that to OSB58!

Is he saying people who support CCFC support SISU? Has he said CCFC and SISU are the same, or just that SISU control CCFC?

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

idm1975 said:
They would be buying an arm of their business wouldnt they?

They would be buying a business owned by them, the same as if somebody buys B and Q they don't buy Kingfisher.

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Is he saying people who support CCFC support SISU? Has he said CCFC and SISU are the same, or just that SISU control CCFC?

Do you ever read anything other than your own posts? He said QUOTE [ Otium ARE CCFC UNQUOTE ] OK?

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Do you ever read anything other than your own posts? He said QUOTE [ Otium ARE CCFC UNQUOTE ] OK?

Yes, that isn't saying SISU are CCFC is it? That's saying Otium is CCFC?

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Yes, that isn't saying SISU are CCFC is it? That's saying Otium is CCFC?

Like I said SISU own Otium, Otium ARE CCFC. If SISU are nothing to do with the Football Club, why do they "Drip feed"

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Yes, that isn't saying SISU are CCFC is it? That's saying Otium is CCFC?

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Like I said SISU own Otium, Otium ARE CCFC. If SISU are nothing to do with the Football Club, why do they "Drip feed"

What goalposts are being moved?

It doesn't matter if it was called Coventry City Love 4eva.com limited and not otium, SISU would own that also. It doesn't mean CCFC is SISU, does it?

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:

It isn't splitting hairs is it?

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
What goalposts are being moved?

It doesn't matter if it was called Coventry City Love 4eva.com limited and not otium, SISU would own that also. It doesn't mean CCFC is SISU, does it?

If you think you're getting the last word mate, think again.

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
It isn't splitting hairs is it?

You've got to be one of the most pedantic twats ever to breathe!

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
If you think you're getting the last word mate, think again.

Last word about what? You were saying CCFC is SISU, others have been saying if you support CCFC you support SISU.

You keep backing it up by saying OSB said CCFC is Otium.

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
You've got to be one of the most pedantic twats ever to breathe!

How is it pedantic?

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Last word about what? You were saying CCFC is SISU, others have been saying if you support CCFC you support SISU.

You keep backing it up by saying OSB said CCFC is Otium.

I said Otium are CCFC....SISU own Otium!

Nick · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I said Otium are CCFC....SISU own Otium!

Nobody was debating that though, as that's fact.

You bumped this with the quote because of on the other thread it was where people were saying CCFC are SISU

chiefdave · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
SISU own Otium!

According to companies house the shareholders in Otium are Arvo and Sky Blues Sports and Leisure

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

re-read my posts #394 and #402

Ashdown · Dec 8, 2016

SISU are CCFC now sadly.................the only thing left of CCFC is the badge, the colours, the fans and the history, everything else is a hedge fund fuck up !

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

chiefdave said:
According to companies house the shareholders in Otium are Arvo and Sky Blues Sports and Leisure

Lets go with what you say.... WTF! are SISU pulling the strings for then??? In essence anyone wanting to buy CCFC need to go straight to ARVO then??? Because SISU have got nothing to do with the Football Club?

Captain Dart · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Lets go with what you say.... WTF! are SISU pulling the strings for then??? In essence anyone wanting to buy CCFC need to go straight to ARVO then??? Because SISU have got nothing to do with the Football Club?

ARVO is a different SISU fund. Note the same address as SISU.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/OC371045/filing-history
and extremely interesting is that they've are due to be dissolved!!!!!

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Captain Dart said:
ARVO is a different SISU fund. Note the same address as SISU.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/OC371045/filing-history
and extremely interesting is that they've are due to be dissolved!!!!!

So if they are being dissolved, does this mean CCFC will no longer be in debt to them for approx £8m?

Skybluefaz · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
So if they are being dissolved, does this mean CCFC will no longer be in debt to them for approx £8m?

Skybluefaz · Dec 8, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
So if they are being dissolved, does this mean CCFC will no longer be in debt to them for approx £8m?

Would be interesting to get osb58's take on this.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 8, 2016

That's not ARVO being dissolved its a limited liability partnership called nepssi

ARVO is based and formed in Cayman islands. Sisu are the agents it would seem for arvo

oldskyblue58 · Dec 8, 2016

Sisu own a small percentage of each fund which makes them managing partners. This allows them to make all investment decisions for each fund. The 5 original funds invested in to sbs&l they were then transferred into another fund sconset which is controlled by Sisu capital. The other share holder in sbs&l is brody minority holding.

ARVO and sbs&l own otium . Sbs&l the majority but ARVO have taken security for all its loans over all assets of sbs&l group current and future. Nothing happens with otium without the consent of its shareholders and charge holders.

Otium trades as. Ccfc. Other than a trading name and emotions of the fans there is no entity Ccfc.

Have monies transferred to Sisu.... no evidence in accounts, as a related party it should be disclosed. . No evidence but cannot be ruled out
There is interest being charged but not drawn so if due monies and can't draw why hide other amounts. Dont actually have a problem with services being paid for
Does Sisu own Ccfc not unless it owns sconset as a majority investor in that fund. However it does CONTROL that fund
Does Sisu own ARVO no idea but both Seppala and Coleman sign on its behalf so would seem to have authority and control.
Fisher refers to Seppala as the owner, she is not recorded as such is not a football club/ group Director. Managers are taken to meet the owner. Rent deals manager deals and so on are referred for owners approval
A Sisu employee is a director of sbs&l and attends otium board meetings.
The shareholders provide letters of intent to auditors to support going concerns control if Ccfc can continue or not
Etcetera.......

It is not about ownership as such it is about control. Assets can not be sold without ARVO approval. Documents are signed by Sisu owners for funds Including ARVO Those directors have full authority to make decisions for the funds. Sisu control Ccfc.

Curiously sbs&l have been unable to find out who has significant control of it per the confirmation statement filed November 2016 ..... go figure? The logic of that being no one identified as control then you can't identify who controls otiumt/a Ccfc either.

Are Sisu and Ccfc the same entity no. Not in law and one can be sold without the other. But in my opinion it is quite clear Sisu controls Ccfc but not vice versa

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Sisu own a small percentage of each fund which makes them managing partners. This allows them to make all investment decisions for each fund. The 5 original funds invested in to sbs&l they were then transferred into another fund sconset which is controlled by Sisu capital. The other share holder in sbs&l is brody minority holding.

ARVO and sbs&l own otium . Sbs&l the majority but ARVO have taken security for all its loans over all assets of sbs&l group current and future. Nothing happens with otium without the consent of its shareholders and charge holders.

Otium trades as. Ccfc. Other than a trading name and emotions of the fans there is no entity Ccfc.

Have monies transferred to Sisu.... no evidence in accounts, as a related party it should be disclosed. . No evidence but cannot be ruled out
There is interest being charged but not drawn so if due monies and can't draw why hide other amounts. Dont actually have a problem with services being paid for
Does Sisu own Ccfc not unless it owns sconset as a majority investor in that fund. However it does CONTROL that fund
Does Sisu own ARVO no idea but both Seppala and Coleman sign on its behalf so would seem to have authority and control.
Fisher refers to Seppala as the owner, she is not recorded as such is not a football club/ group Director. Managers are taken to meet the owner. Rent deals manager deals and so on are referred for owners approval
A Sisu employee is a director of sbs&l and attends otium board meetings.
Etcetera.......

It is not about ownership as such it is about control. Assets can not be sold without ARVO approval. Documents are signed by Sisu owners for funds Including ARVO Those directors have full authority to make decisions for the funds. Sisu control Ccfc.

Curiously sbs&l have been unable to find out who has significant control of it per the confirmation statement filed November 2016 ..... go figure? The logic of that being no one identified as control then you can't identify who controls otiumt/a Ccfc either.

Are Sisu and Ccfc the same entity no. Not in law and one can be sold without the other. But in my opinion it is quite clear Sisu controls Ccfc but not vice versa

Thanks for clearing that up OSB58.

Sky Blue Kid · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Nobody was debating that though, as that's fact.

You bumped this with the quote because of on the other thread it was where people were saying CCFC are SISU

Have you read OSB58 post #413. What are your thoughts now? Read it carefully before your inevitable come back. trying to...

wingy · Dec 8, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Sisu own a small percentage of each fund which makes them managing partners. This allows them to make all investment decisions for each fund. The 5 original funds invested in to sbs&l they were then transferred into another fund sconset which is controlled by Sisu capital. The other share holder in sbs&l is brody minority holding.

ARVO and sbs&l own otium . Sbs&l the majority but ARVO have taken security for all its loans over all assets of sbs&l group current and future. Nothing happens with otium without the consent of its shareholders and charge holders.

Otium trades as. Ccfc. Other than a trading name and emotions of the fans there is no entity Ccfc.

Have monies transferred to Sisu.... no evidence in accounts, as a related party it should be disclosed. . No evidence but cannot be ruled out
There is interest being charged but not drawn so if due monies and can't draw why hide other amounts. Dont actually have a problem with services being paid for
Does Sisu own Ccfc not unless it owns sconset as a majority investor in that fund. However it does CONTROL that fund
Does Sisu own ARVO no idea but both Seppala and Coleman sign on its behalf so would seem to have authority and control.
Fisher refers to Seppala as the owner, she is not recorded as such is not a football club/ group Director. Managers are taken to meet the owner. Rent deals manager deals and so on are referred for owners approval
A Sisu employee is a director of sbs&l and attends otium board meetings.
The shareholders provide letters of intent to auditors to support going concerns control if Ccfc can continue or not
Etcetera.......

It is not about ownership as such it is about control. Assets can not be sold without ARVO approval. Documents are signed by Sisu owners for funds Including ARVO Those directors have full authority to make decisions for the funds. Sisu control Ccfc.

Curiously sbs&l have been unable to find out who has significant control of it per the confirmation statement filed November 2016 ..... go figure? The logic of that being no one identified as control then you can't identify who controls otiumt/a Ccfc either.

Are Sisu and Ccfc the same entity no. Not in law and one can be sold without the other. But in my opinion it is quite clear Sisu controls Ccfc but not vice versa

Is that any different to previous confirmation statements OSB?

skybluetony176 · Dec 8, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
Curiously sbs&l have been unable to find out who has significant control of it per the confirmation statement filed November 2016 ..... go figure? The logic of that being no one identified as control then you can't identify who controls otiumt/a Ccfc either.

Wouldn't that contravene FA/FL rules? Surely whoever has significant control also has to clear the fit and proper test? If they can't identity that person how can that happen?

skybluetony176 · Dec 8, 2016

Nick said:
Nobody was debating that though, as that's fact.

You bumped this with the quote because of on the other thread it was where people were saying CCFC are SISU

You should tell that to the people who have stated that if wasps take us over they're done with the club. Not you Nick I know but some people who make the argument that SISU aren't the club have stated that in the past.

oldskyblue58 · Dec 8, 2016

wingy said:
Is that any different to previous confirmation statements OSB?

Nope confirmation statement became requirement 6/4/16. So no comparison

But you would expect a small company to know whose decisions and control it operates to. Apparently the company is still investigating........

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Dec 8, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Wouldn't that contravene FA/FL rules? Surely whoever has significant control also has to clear the fit and proper test? If they can't identity that person how can that happen?

FA/FL rules ? don't make me laugh , fit and proper test ? they don't give sweet FA. its the FA/FL who need a fit and proper test . MUPPETS the lot of them . :bag: :finger:

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