Southgate (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Domo
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SeaSeeEffCee
Well-Known Member
Other nations are happy to give the job to youth coaches with no top level managerial experience. Argentina and Spain have both just won major tournaments off the back of doing that.
Truthfully none of the English candidates are particularly exciting. We simply don't produce particularly good coaches in this country.
Truthfully none of the English candidates are particularly exciting. We simply don't produce particularly good coaches in this country.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean it's going to be the best way forward for every nation , they obviously have qualities .. the Argentinian has won 3 major trophies in 6 years after managing just 6 games for the u20s , I doubt it's at all related
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s such a low resolution way of looking at it. Revisit the last 5 world cups and the teams that won it did so in the nitty gritty - even the great 2010 Spain team won most games 1-0. Brazil in 2002 was probably the last team to be a juggernaut in the tournament. The France manager who won the World Cup in 1998 fell out with the media after negative coverage and after he won it, refused to speak to L’Equipe again because of it.
Man City dominate teams regularly in UCL matches, how many have they won under Pep?
Of all the non-English managers linked, Tuchel would be best option and he’s not well known for possessional football and dominating teams.
A lot of people are going to be disappointed if they think we’re going to turn into prime Brazil post-Southgate. Qualifiers and friendly results mean nothing, we’ve got to go out and start winning Nations League top teams and at major tournaments.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
With respect, I hope the FA aren’t serious about this. I don’t think she’s ever coached in the men’s game at all.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I agree about the nations league but you didn't before , all recent euro winners have won a nations league
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I don’t think much will change. If anything I think performances will slightly improve but we’ll fail to get as far in tournaments then people call the manager an FA yes man and clamour for him to be sacked in favour of a fantasy successor that doesn’t actually exist anywhere but their heads that will magically win everything playing like prime Brazil.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
In of itself, it’s not important. The reason I’m interested in it is because we need to get confidence in beating the best teams in the world. We need to build those winning habits against Spain, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany and so on.
First, a 100% record against ROI, Greece and Finland would do.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Done more for English football than many good managers before him. Almost an unprecedented level of success compared to predecessors.
Ultimately his limitations as a tactician is what has stopped us winning two euros and progressing further at world cups. But the different in togetherness of the national side is there for all to see.
Right decision, but he should be remembered fondly, let's not forget how bad we were before he came in
Ultimately his limitations as a tactician is what has stopped us winning two euros and progressing further at world cups. But the different in togetherness of the national side is there for all to see.
Right decision, but he should be remembered fondly, let's not forget how bad we were before he came in
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Including the Germany team that scored 7 in a semi final?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Then we should keep Gareth forever then , because he's the best manager in the world
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
The fact people think that no manager out there can do better than Gareth when they've just watched a bald Spanish bloke that nobody has heard of take a weaker team to the title cracks me up
About 4 of their player should make our team and they've just played amazing football and won the lot .
About 4 of their player should make our team and they've just played amazing football and won the lot .
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Then we should keep Gareth forever then , because he's the best manager in the world
No one is saying that but clearly a new manager has a benchmark to better
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
And we should strive to be better , because he's had 4 tournaments and really any manager less cautious would probably have took us to atleast 1 title
Too cautious , too passive , shite tactically .. not good enough
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We shall see. Personally I think if we go for Howe or Potter it will be a case of careful what you wish for
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
When Linekar and Micah Richards suggest Klopp and Pep, you just know people aren’t being reasonable in their expectations.
The top managers don’t tend to go into international management. In theory, Spain downgraded moving to Luis de la Fuente from Luis Enrique. The latter being an ex-Barca coach who’s won the UCL and La Liga. The differences? International management is basically part time. You don’t as much time with the players and the environment is different during tournaments both on and off the pitch. De la Fuente was both more pragmatic tactically and clearly had a better grasp on international tournaments than his predecessor.
Again, like many outsiders, no one would have heard of him before he was hired. I don’t know much about Carsley tactically, but could be an astute appointment but I fear it may be too early for him.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Howe has 3 promotions under his belt and got Newcastle into the champions league spots .. he's a far superior manager to Gareth southgate
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So was Graham Taylor
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
That in itself is the biggest issue for me. Playing all of them gets the best from none of them. But you have to have bollocks the size of watermelons to leave one or two out.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Maybe we should approach Morocco for their manager because he's elite , he got morroco to a world cup semi final .. like Gareth..
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
What about Mancini? Has managed big players and won the league at Man City - and has won an international tournament as manager
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
No because club managers are not as good as u21 managers
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Drew to Ghana in the group stage and need extra time to beat Algeria in the R16. Were solid against the USA, France and scored a late in extra time to win the final. Go through the match stats, they had 3 shots on target v France and 5 in 120m v Argentina. It’s not much more than what we v Netherlands and Spain.
That 7-1 v Brazil was just one of those freak results. They had 10 shots on target and scored 7 goals. Brazil had more shots in total than them.
That Germany team was so well balanced. Great defensively, great at set pieces and could control games with possession and also be direct. Their defensive record won them the tournament.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
They did also put 4 past Portugal that tournament. I doubt their total non penalty xG was 6, anyway and it was also of course done on a continent which had never seen a European winner up to that point.
Gareth’s preference was to cling on for dear life for penalties in all the knockout games. It was rightfully punished.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
We need to figure out patterns of play to put Foden, Kane and Bellingham in positions to score goals. Several times you could see Bellingham and Foden call for the ball and make a darting run not for the team to take a risk.
From my obervations, having only Saka as an elite dribbler was a mistake. I’d like to start Palmer because he gives defenders a lot of trouble. When he played AM, he did well to double up on the right flank which lead to his goal.
The big big question is can we trust and get the most out of Bellingham playing as an 8. If we can, I definitely think we could play a mid like:
Rice
Bellingham
Saka
Palmer
Foden
In the Southgate era, the team was very much Kane’s team and playing Sterling, Rashford and Saka around him worked really well. However, in the last 18 months, the best English players in the world are Bellingham and Foden. So the next manager needs to build the team around them rather than Kane as Southgate planned for.
In the 2022 World Cup, we genuinely looked like a really good team who played well together. By comparison, it didn’t feel like we had 3 players who could arguably call themselves the best in the world. That was my biggest disappointment.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
With 6 shots on target and Portugal had a red card at 2-0.
We didn’t cling on for penalties, that’s ridiculous. Only Switzerland went to penalties and we were pushing for a winner before penalties. Likewise, against Spain, most of their big chances were when they caught us on the counter. That’s when they really cut us open.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Only one team was trying to win in extra time against the Swiss. The telling thing against Spain was how we only made earnest attempts to score once we went behind. As soon as we equalised we reverted to sitting deep and hoping for the referee’s whistle. Then true to form we found some legs when they scored again.
I will grant you though that he wasn’t playing for penalties against Slovakia-he was playing to protect their 1-0 lead.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
I think we will go back to being a last 16 or Quarter Finals at best team.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
But for Bellingham in the last seconds we were a last 16 team.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That narrative just doesn’t match reality. In the first half we had the better chances, albeit both were half chances. Stones tackling Williams in the box was Spain’s most dangerous moment in the first half.
We conceded right after the break being caught half asleep, we weren’t sitting back at all. Spain hit most of the 5 shots on target between both goals. Where Spain clearly cut us open on the counter as we chased the game.
I get your frustrations with the tournament as a whole. In isolation, we weren’t bad against Spain at all and had we not conceded a poor chance so soon after the break, the game could’ve went a lot differently.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
If your nan had wheels she’d have been a bike, what’s your point?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
The debate has been done to death now.
Maybe Southgate held us back and a new manager will take us further. I hope those that think that are right and they can rub it in my face for ever. I just don’t think it’s going to be the case and we all end up more disappointed.
Maybe Southgate held us back and a new manager will take us further. I hope those that think that are right and they can rub it in my face for ever. I just don’t think it’s going to be the case and we all end up more disappointed.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It was a tournament largely consisting of us getting away with poor to very poor performances and then losing to an actually strong side. So really, that we got rumbled in the final as opposed to a quarter final isn’t of much significance.
Boring, negative football which wasn’t necessary.