Southport Stabbing (5 Viewers)

shmmeee · Jan 28, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
Sorry should have clarified as it’s not implicit
He was talking about the terrorist risk to the country
So it’s the country that is more vulnerable to attack if we expand the definition of terrorism which in my opinion should be people who inflict terror on other people

That’s not what terrorism is though. It’s specifically violence with a political end in mind. Which is why this attack wasn’t terrorism but ironically the riots in response to try and force government to change immigration policy was technically.

This is the problem with terrorism as a crime IMO. It’s creating a false dichotomy between acts of violence. The parents of these kids are no more or less devastated if the guy did it because he was nuts or because he hated the UKs Middle East policy. It basically becomes “be extra harsh to violent people who are against the government”.

This constant need to “do something” when we refuse to properly fund services just ends up with more mandatory reporting more paperwork and bigger “watchlists” and no way of improving our ability to stop this stuff. Just overworked people drowning in cases.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 28, 2025

MalcSB said:
@Sky Blue Pete

What is the difference between “an eye for an eye” and capital punishment?

How much detail would you like?
man eye for an eye is commonly held to be a step towards limiting escalation by Old Testament theologians as common practice was
I pinch you you punch me
I stab you you kill me
My family kill you and your brothers
Your family kill my family and some of my town

you get the point

Jesus says in the New Testament

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also

good article on it here and it’s the same principle really

Matthew 5:39 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye...'"

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:38-39 RSV).

www.unity.org

so it’s about who I and who we are and the nation and society we want to be a part of

For me too when someone’s brain hasn’t fully matured (whether that’s right from wrong) or understanding the nature of eternity or consequence I think we should err our quite natural human inclination to want reciprocity of treatment. Many disagree

I struggle with someone like the hungerford killer or Tim mcveigh or if this fucker was nearer 30 than 17.

Then my reasoning would be more murder is wrong period why would it therefore be ok for the state to take someone’s life?

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 28, 2025

shmmeee said:
That’s not what terrorism is though. It’s specifically violence with a political end in mind. Which is why this attack wasn’t terrorism but ironically the riots in response to try and force government to change immigration policy was technically.

This is the problem with terrorism as a crime IMO. It’s creating a false dichotomy between acts of violence. The parents of these kids are no more or less devastated if the guy did it because he was nuts or because he hated the UKs Middle East policy. It basically becomes “be extra harsh to violent people who are against the government”.

This constant need to “do something” when we refuse to properly fund services just ends up with more mandatory reporting more paperwork and bigger “watchlists” and no way of improving our ability to stop this stuff. Just overworked people drowning in cases.

I agree but it’s why tice Lowe and Farage can seemingly get common sense when those who have to deal with the consequences get drowned out when they say but ……

shmmeee · Jan 28, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
I agree but it’s why tice Lowe and Farage can seemingly get common sense when those who have to deal with the consequences get drowned out when they say but ……

Populists are always going to exploit people’s understandable anger with easy answers. We used to have a media that didn’t assist them in their nonsense…

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 28, 2025

shmmeee said:
Populists are always going to exploit people’s understandable anger with easy answers. We used to have a media that didn’t assist them in their nonsense…

You and I are in the minority
I thought with 14 and 17 year olds there wouldn’t be a debate but times they are a changing

SBT · Jan 28, 2025

shmmeee said:
Populists are always going to exploit people’s understandable anger with easy answers. We used to have a media that didn’t assist them in their nonsense…

Did we?

shmmeee · Jan 28, 2025

SBT said:
Did we?

There was a time when the BBC wouldn’t just uncritically platform conspiracy theorists yeah. I remember the debate around Nick Griffin on QT, or that MPs spouting nonsense would be ignored or ridiculed rather than given their own show.

I’m a big believer in the idea that lack of gatekeepers has lead to a degradation of the public debate. Say what you want about the Telegraph or the Guardian or the BBC but they were generally staffed by journalists with some kind of ethical code. Just in the time I’ve been listening to Radio4 the quality of journalism has degraded massively. To the point where the entire reason I enjoyed it (serious level headed policy discussion) seems to have been removed entirely and replaced with gossip and a rush for a quick sound bite headline.

Maybe I’m just old and misremembering but it certainly feels like there was a shift like everything with social media around 2012-2015 where all these standards just dropped and it’s clickbait as far as the eye can see.

MalcSB · Jan 28, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
How much detail would you like?
man eye for an eye is commonly held to be a step towards limiting escalation by Old Testament theologians as common practice was
I pinch you you punch me
I stab you you kill me
My family kill you and your brothers
Your family kill my family and some of my town

you get the point

Jesus says in the New Testament

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also

good article on it here and it’s the same principle really

Matthew 5:39 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye...'"

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:38-39 RSV).

www.unity.org

so it’s about who I and who we are and the nation and society we want to be a part of

For me too when someone’s brain hasn’t fully matured (whether that’s right from wrong) or understanding the nature of eternity or consequence I think we should err our quite natural human inclination to want reciprocity of treatment. Many disagree

I struggle with someone like the hungerford killer or Tim mcveigh or if this fucker was nearer 30 than 17.

Then my reasoning would be more murder is wrong period why would it therefore be ok for the state to take someone’s life?

Had to read that a few times but I see the de-escalation argument.

Shakespeare‘s near equivalent is the “ pound of flesh but not a drop of blood” argument in Merchant of Venic.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 29, 2025

Pretty awful

BBC

MalcSB · Jan 30, 2025

shmmeee said:
There was a time when the BBC wouldn’t just uncritically platform conspiracy theorists yeah. I remember the debate around Nick Griffin on QT, or that MPs spouting nonsense would be ignored or ridiculed rather than given their own show.

I’m a big believer in the idea that lack of gatekeepers has lead to a degradation of the public debate. Say what you want about the Telegraph or the Guardian or the BBC but they were generally staffed by journalists with some kind of ethical code. Just in the time I’ve been listening to Radio4 the quality of journalism has degraded massively. To the point where the entire reason I enjoyed it (serious level headed policy discussion) seems to have been removed entirely and replaced with gossip and a rush for a quick sound bite headline.

Maybe I’m just old and misremembering but it certainly feels like there was a shift like everything with social media around 2012-2015 where all these standards just dropped and it’s clickbait as far as the eye can see.

2015 - When Woke became the order of the day. BLM. 2018 Greta Thunberg.

MalcSB · Jan 30, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
Pretty awful

BBC

How long has Labour governed Wales?

Nick · Feb 3, 2025

Apparently a kid stabbed to death at school in Sheffield ffs. Not sure how true but allegedly the school was in lockdown last week because he tried to stab him then. If so, shocking.

Sky Blue Pete · Feb 3, 2025

Nick said:
Apparently a kid stabbed to death at school in Sheffield ffs. Not sure how true but allegedly the school was in lockdown last week because he tried to stab him then. If so, shocking.

X saying kid was called Omar
Nothing anywhere confirming anything and a catholic school
So sad

Nick · Feb 3, 2025

Schools should be zero tolerance and the police should be stepping in.

I know kids have scraps at school but weapons....

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 3, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
X saying kid was called Omar
Nothing anywhere confirming anything and a catholic school
So sad

Yes I read that. Headteacher going to be in big trouble

shmmeee · Feb 3, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
Yes I read that. Headteacher going to be in big trouble

Why?

rob9872 · Feb 4, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
X saying kid was called Omar

shmmeee said:
Why?

Zed?

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 4, 2025

shmmeee said:
Why?

The school went into lockdown last week with the same atracker with a knife.

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
The school went into lockdown last week with the same atracker with a knife.

Where have you heard that?

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 4, 2025

shmmeee said:
Where have you heard that?

It's all over the news

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
It's all over the news

Ive not seen it in any articles that’s why I ask. Just that the school was locked down not that it was the same guy with a knife.

Sky Blue Pete · Feb 4, 2025

shmmeee said:
Where have you heard that?

I’ve not seen it say the same attacker had a knife just that threats were being made and a small group were causing trouble

Sky Blue Pete · Feb 4, 2025

Sky Blue Pete said:
I’ve not seen it say the same attacker had a knife just that threats were being made and a small group were causing trouble

However reform and their followers are keen intelligence gatherers and have already solved the problem for us

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 4, 2025

The suspect bought a knife in last week and was suspended. Yesterday was his first day back. It was filmed and is all over the Internet. Usual suspects involved.

Macca · Feb 4, 2025

Headmaster needs shooting

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
The suspect bought a knife in last week and was suspended. Yesterday was his first day back. It was filmed and is all over the Internet. Usual suspects involved.

Have you got a link? Genuinely can’t find anything on google

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 4, 2025

It's not hard to find if you look close enough.

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
It's not hard to find if you look close enough.

Great then you can give me a link. WTF? I’m not arguing with you I just want to see and you’ve said you’ve found something. Why so coy?

SBT · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
The suspect bought a knife in last week and was suspended. Yesterday was his first day back. It was filmed and is all over the Internet. Usual suspects involved.

“Usual suspects”?

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

SBT said:
“Usual suspects”?

Bloody Keyser Soze.

It’s a catholic school so I’m guessing black people is what he means.

SBT · Feb 4, 2025

shmmeee said:
Bloody Keyser Soze.

It’s a catholic school so I’m guessing black people is what he means.

Murder suspects are usually white men - I was under the impression a child had been arrested.

Gynnsthetonic · Feb 4, 2025

Albanian. This Country is lawless

SBT · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
Albanian. This Country is lawless

Source?

PVA · Feb 4, 2025

Gynnsthetonic said:
Usual suspects involved.

shmmeee · Feb 4, 2025

I went to the cess pit and even on there all I can find is a couple of race war accounts claiming they know. I can’t see any videos at all. I won’t repost here cos it’s a kid but one TikTok screenshot showing a random kid saying his name was Omar and it was him. Also some other random kid who says they go to the school and nothing like this has ever happened. So choose your random child fighter I guess?

Southport Stabbing (5 Viewers)

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