Stability (23 Viewers)

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

duffer said:
Let's just get the chain of events right here, so we can see how helpful the council have been...

Aug 2014 (Just before the return to the Ricoh):
Council chief:
We need time to rebuild trust before we talk about ownership (with CCFC):
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-chief-need-time-rebuild-7651892
(as a matter of record, at the time the council were already secretly negotiating a deal with London Wasps)

January 2016
Council Officer email to Jon Sharp, CRFC.:
"The Council naturally wants to protect its position. We look to add a new clause (to) specifically exclude professional association football (from being played at the Butts)"
http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...id-b-coventry-city-f-c-butts-groundshare/
(this was in response to a possible arrangement being discussed for CCFC to play at the Butts)

May 2016
Council Chief George Duggins:
Will not put up ‘roadblocks’ to sale of lease, potential groundshare
http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...ouncil-leader-coventry-city-butts-sisu-speak/
(this after email above was leaked and published earlier in the month)

Aug 2016:
Council Chief George Duggins:
SISU must pay council £325,000 before it will before it will help CCFC stay at the Ricoh Arena or secure Academy
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-says-taxpayers-325k-out-11772291

So of the two times that the council has offered to help the club in recent history, one was a simple flat-out lie. A total fiction. A complete fabrication from start to finish, from an elected member of the council. It was not contradicted by anyone else at the council at the time, officers or councillors, even though many there would have known it to be a lie.

The other offer to help (or at least not deliberately hinder) was in response to being caught attempting to block any possible move away from the Ricoh. This was subsequently completely contradicted with a demand for money to which the council has (as yet) no legal claim.

Tremendously helpful.

Let me see now..... your first post dated August 2014... Am I right? Yes I am right..... Now then...

This is dated May 2013 some 16 months before Wasps bought the Ricoh..... Ahem here we go......

Coventry have confirmed they will definitely not be returning to the Ricoh Arena next season.

Chief executive Tim Fisher has revealed the club are instead in the process of securing a site in the local area on which to build a new stadium.
Fisher says that whilst the new ground is being constructed, they will groundshare with another club, with their plans to be presented to the Football League at the start of June.

The move comes following a year-long rent row with Arena Coventry Limited (ACL), who manage the Ricoh Arena on behalf of joint owners the Alan Edward Higgs Charity and Coventry City Council.

Fisher said: "It's a new era and we retained specialists some months ago to advise us on where to build a new stadium for the club - and in the immediate Coventry area by the way".

City claim they did not want to leave the Ricoh but they had to make the move because "the doors locked on us".

In a statement of their own on Thursday, ACL said "our doors remain open to the Sky Blues".

But asked if there is any chance of Coventry playing at the Ricoh Arena next season, Fisher replied: "None. "People have to understand we do not posture, we do not threaten, because that is not how you do business, you only do business in good faith. Always.

"We have started the process of procuring land so that we can shift the new stadium build forward at a pace. The stadium will be in the Coventry area in accordance with Football League rules."

Fisher added: "We have left the Ricoh Arena.

"We were told categorically by ACL and by the council that there was no commercial deal to be done and in actual fact they would only ever work with the administrator.

"We were very, very clear in our minds as to exactly what was intended. Given the position we have had to make contingency plans to fulfil our fixtures on an interim basis - while we deliver the long-term vision.

"That long-term vision has us playing in the Coventry area in a new stadium that will be designed and delivered in three years.

"All this will be in full consultation with the fans - starting with the upcoming forums. In consideration of financial fair play then we will own all the revenue streams that come from matchday and, non-matchday activities, and therefore we will have every chance of becoming a solid, vibrant club."

May 17, 2013

ccfcway · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
I wasn't being sarcastic, I was just imagining.A "Monday's beef" thread.

feel free to merge the transfer threads. After all Nick, your running the site, and for what it worth, I think you should.

One thing is for sure, a "Wednesday transfer thread" seems to contain a lot more new information than our daily "our club is ruined, who's fault is it"

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
A deja-vu sense of foreboding eh Dave

Indeed. Undoubtedly the original clause was to stop unscruplous developers buying the rugby club, getting shot of the team, and then developing the land for other purposes at a significant profit. That was to protect the rugby club.

The clause the council wanted to add was nothing to do with protecting the rugby club. The council doesn't care about CRFC, as can be seen by inviting a bigger, richer club to move in next door.

The clue for the motive behind requesting a clause to stop CCFC sharing with CRFC is in the phrase "the council are seeking to protect their position".

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

duffer said:
Indeed. Undoubtedly the original clause was to stop unscruplous developers buying the rugby club, getting shot of the team, and then developing the land for other purposes at a significant profit. That was to protect the rugby club.

The clause the council wanted to add was nothing to do with protecting the rugby club. The council doesn't care about CRFC, as can be seen by inviting a bigger, richer club to move in next door.

The clue for the motive behind requesting a clause to stop CCFC sharing with CRFC is in the phrase "the council are seeking to protect their position".

Feel free to reply to my post #141

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Let me see now..... your first post dated August 2014... Am I right? Yes I am right..... Now then...

This is dated May 2013 some 16 months before Wasps bought the Ricoh..... Ahem here we go......

Coventry have confirmed they will definitely not be returning to the Ricoh Arena next season.

Chief executive Tim Fisher has revealed the club are instead in the process of securing a site in the local area on which to build a new stadium.
Fisher says that whilst the new ground is being constructed, they will groundshare with another club, with their plans to be presented to the Football League at the start of June.

The move comes following a year-long rent row with Arena Coventry Limited (ACL), who manage the Ricoh Arena on behalf of joint owners the Alan Edward Higgs Charity and Coventry City Council.

Fisher said: "It's a new era and we retained specialists some months ago to advise us on where to build a new stadium for the club - and in the immediate Coventry area by the way".

City claim they did not want to leave the Ricoh but they had to make the move because "the doors locked on us".

In a statement of their own on Thursday, ACL said "our doors remain open to the Sky Blues".

But asked if there is any chance of Coventry playing at the Ricoh Arena next season, Fisher replied: "None. "People have to understand we do not posture, we do not threaten, because that is not how you do business, you only do business in good faith. Always.

"We have started the process of procuring land so that we can shift the new stadium build forward at a pace. The stadium will be in the Coventry area in accordance with Football League rules."

Fisher added: "We have left the Ricoh Arena.

"We were told categorically by ACL and by the council that there was no commercial deal to be done and in actual fact they would only ever work with the administrator.

"We were very, very clear in our minds as to exactly what was intended. Given the position we have had to make contingency plans to fulfil our fixtures on an interim basis - while we deliver the long-term vision.

"That long-term vision has us playing in the Coventry area in a new stadium that will be designed and delivered in three years.

"All this will be in full consultation with the fans - starting with the upcoming forums. In consideration of financial fair play then we will own all the revenue streams that come from matchday and, non-matchday activities, and therefore we will have every chance of becoming a solid, vibrant club."

May 17, 2013

All of which has nothing at all to do with what the Council said when CCFC moved back to the Ricoh.

All I've done here is exploded the embarassing pretence that the council have been in any way helpful since deciding to sell to Wasps. You can fish back as far as you want, but nothing you've said here in any way disproves that.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

[QUOTE="duffer, post: 1147833, member: 1715"]Indeed. Undoubtedly the original clause was to stop unscruplous developers buying the rugby club, getting shot of the team, and then developing the land for other purposes at a significant profit. That was to protect the rugby club.

The clause the council wanted to add was nothing to do with protecting the rugby club. The council doesn't care about CRFC, as can be seen by inviting a bigger, richer club to move in next door.

The clue for the motive behind requesting a clause to stop CCFC sharing with CRFC is in the phrase "the council are seeking to protect their position".[/QUOTE]

Remind you of any particular business Duffer me old mucker

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Feel free to reply to my post #141

Which again, has nothing to with the clause which the council wanted to put in. We all know SISU are crap, but I'm not having that the Council have been in any way 'helpful' to CCFC. There's precisely zero evidence of that since they decided to bring in a franchise rugby team.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

duffer said:
All of which has nothing at all to do with what the Council said when CCFC moved back to the Ricoh.

All I've done here is exploded the embarassing pretence that the council have been in any way helpful since deciding to sell to Wasps. You can fish back as far as you want, but nothing you've said here in any way disproves that.

And all I've done is expose Fisher and SISU when they said they will never return to the Ricoh some 16 months previous to the Wasps buying the stadium. Now what would you do?... Leave the stadium empty 12 months of the year or sell it?... Over to you!
PS Don't get me wrong here, the CCC are in many ways culpable for the shitfest, but I truly believe SISU are far more at fault.

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
[QUOTE="duffer, post: 1147833, member: 1715"]Indeed. Undoubtedly the original clause was to stop unscruplous developers buying the rugby club, getting shot of the team, and then developing the land for other purposes at a significant profit. That was to protect the rugby club.

The clause the council wanted to add was nothing to do with protecting the rugby club. The council doesn't care about CRFC, as can be seen by inviting a bigger, richer club to move in next door.

The clue for the motive behind requesting a clause to stop CCFC sharing with CRFC is in the phrase "the council are seeking to protect their position".

Remind you of any particular business Duffer me old mucker [/QUOTE]

SBK mate, I know SISU are crap. We all know that. You've heard the phrase 'pushing at an open door', right.

What I'm highlighting here is how bad the council have been in return. The council is, quite rightly, supposed to hold to a higher standard than a hedge fund from Mayfair (or a franchise team owned from Malta). And yet here they are, screwing the club over to get one over on SISU.

chiefdave · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
But asked if there is any chance of Coventry playing at the Ricoh Arena next season, Fisher replied: "None. "People have to understand we do not posture, we do not threaten, because that is not how you do business, you only do business in good faith. Always.

That would be the 2013/14 season then, how many games did we play at the Ricoh that season?

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

duffer said:
Remind you of any particular business Duffer me old mucker

SBK mate, I know SISU are crap. We all know that. You've heard the phrase 'pushing at an open door', right.

What I'm highlighting here is how bad the council have been in return. The council is, quite rightly, supposed to hold to a higher standard than a hedge fund from Mayfair (or a franchise team owned from Malta). And yet here they are, screwing the club over to get one over on SISU.[/QUOTE]
And to finally finish mate CCC have made a statement to say they will not stand in the way of a joint venture between CCFC and CRFC. I can't see the problem anymore, can you?

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
SBK mate, I know SISU are crap. We all know that. You've heard the phrase 'pushing at an open door', right.

What I'm highlighting here is how bad the council have been in return. The council is, quite rightly, supposed to hold to a higher standard than a hedge fund from Mayfair (or a franchise team owned from Malta). And yet here they are, screwing the club over to get one over on SISU.

And to finally finish mate CCC have made a statement to say they will not stand in the way of a joint venture between CCFC and CRFC. I can't see the problem anymore, can you?[/QUOTE]
You are still failing to see they made the statement after they had been caught out. Again, do you want me to prove we are getting a new stadium by linking to Fisher?

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

chiefdave said:
That would be the 2013/14 season then, how many games did we play at the Ricoh that season?

Well.. to my reckoning, May 17th 2013 would suggest Season 2012-2013.

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
And to finally finish mate CCC have made a statement to say they will not stand in the way of a joint venture between CCFC and CRFC. I can't see the problem anymore, can you?

You are still failing to see they made the statement after they had been caught out. Again, do you want me to prove we are getting a new stadium by linking to Fisher?[/QUOTE]
WTF is your problem? Not been reading posts again? we've been having civilised discussions till you came back on the thread.
Would you like me to prove CCFC were DEFFO not coming back to the Ricoh from May 17th 2013? and Wasps weren't even a minute thought in CCC minds at that point? Or at least as some have suggested the earliest Wasps were not on the scene till early to mid 2014.... Some 16 months later.

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

They made the statement.saying they won't stop it, after they had tried..

What about the proof there were discussions with wasps in 2012?

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
They made the statement.saying they won't stop it, after they had tried..

What about the proof there were discussions with wasps in 2012?

Think you should back that up mate.. Link.

chiefdave · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Think you should back that up mate.. Link.

Wasn't someone, think it might have been Rossborough, interviewed on CWR and said that he was approached by the current owner of Wasps before he'd even taken over about them moving to Coventry.

duffer · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
And to finally finish mate CCC have made a statement to say they will not stand in the way of a joint venture between CCFC and CRFC. I can't see the problem anymore, can you?

To finally finish,I can't but point out that the council's last offer is to demand £325k before they do anything to 'help'!

I'll leave it at that chap, appreciate we differ.

Terry Gibson's perm · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
A problem is that people see Transfer Deadline day and Man City buying all these players but I don't think a lot of people grasp about how things are in League 1.

I have said to a few people that it is how league 1 works, and all they can say is "we shouldn't be in league 1".

Even if SISU did plough loads of money in, what happens then if it doesn't work? It wouldn't be a gift to the club would it?

I thought under ffp anything they put in has to be a gift, might be another reason why they don't bother

covmark · Aug 25, 2016

Well if the council have been helpful so far, I'd hate to see what they're like when they're unhelpful.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

ccfctommy · Aug 25, 2016

js_lilley said:
If its a "debt" to SISU as the owners of the club, then they owe themselves money? If SISU are saying the club owes them money then thats their issue, they've probably lost it.

I get it, you hate SISU more than anything in the world! The point im getting at is that right now we are financially stable to the point where we are not at risk of issues like administration.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up SISU's ass, I wish they would move on too, they've got it wrong consistently, but right now administration etc is not a risk.

No. CCFC owe Joy Sepalla and SISU investors money.

stupot07 · Aug 25, 2016

Terry Gibson's perm said:
I thought under ffp anything they put in has to be a gift, might be another reason why they don't bother

inject equity, not gift the money.

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Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Nick said:
They made the statement.saying they won't stop it, after they had tried..

What about the proof there were discussions with wasps in 2012?

Errrr highly unlikely Nick seeing as in 2012 Wasps were...............
Dated August 2014......Wasps were one hour away from bankruptcy two years ago and the club have used the threat of liquidation to explain the move away from their roots in London and the south east.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...itions-hang-Joe-Launchbury.html#ixzz4INHKWyi8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

Still waiting for that link Nick:yawn:

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
[QUOTE="js_lilley, post: 1147517, member: 8600"]If its a "debt" to SISU as the owners of the club, then they owe themselves money? If SISU are saying the club owes them money then thats their issue, they've probably lost it.

I get it, you hate SISU more than anything in the world! The point im getting at is that right now we are financially stable to the point where we are not at risk of issues like administration.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up SISU's ass, I wish they would move on too, they've got it wrong consistently, but right now administration etc is not a risk.

Hold your f**king horses right there mate... The clever arses on here are bursting blood vessels saying CCFC and SISU are NOT the same.
Yet they admit SISU want their money back from CCFC... Pray tell... How will they do that then [/QUOTE]

The only way they will get it back is if they have a (very ) successful team. So there is no logic to any argument that says they are deliberately running it down
As to the Administration they took a very common route that I suspect OSB has employed at some point
SISU have said they will not call on their debt under normal circumstances. It is therefore tantamount to fixed capital but used in a tactical way to stop predators ( which includes some forms of wasp )

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

oldfiver said:
Hold your f**king horses right there mate... The clever arses on here are bursting blood vessels saying CCFC and SISU are NOT the same.
Yet they admit SISU want their money back from CCFC... Pray tell... How will they do that then

The only way they will get it back is if they have a (very ) successful team. So there is no logic to any argument that says they are deliberately running it down
As to the Administration they took a very common route that I suspect OSB has employed at some point
SISU have said they will not call on their debt under normal circumstances. It is therefore tantamount to fixed capital but used in a tactical way to stop predators ( which includes some forms of wasp )[/QUOTE]

The big sentence right there mate

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Errrr highly unlikely Nick seeing as in 2012 Wasps were...............
Dated August 2014......Wasps were one hour away from bankruptcy two years ago and the club have used the threat of liquidation to explain the move away from their roots in London and the south east.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...itions-hang-Joe-Launchbury.html#ixzz4INHKWyi8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

WASPS were buzzing round Coventry in 2012 - Peter Rossborough reported a meeting he had with them

Also “The move is the end of a two-year process of thinking very carefully about our future,” said Nick Eastwood, chief executive of the Wasps. “It has really been a three-stage process. The first was realizing that staying where we were was not an option. We could not go on losing three to four million pounds every year.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/sports/rugby/wasps-move-to-new-home-in-coventry.html?_r=0

Do keep up with the facts !

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
The only way they will get it back is if they have a (very ) successful team. So there is no logic to any argument that says they are deliberately running it down
As to the Administration they took a very common route that I suspect OSB has employed at some point
SISU have said they will not call on their debt under normal circumstances. It is therefore tantamount to fixed capital but used in a tactical way to stop predators ( which includes some forms of wasp )

The big sentence right there mate [/QUOTE]

I do know what I write!!

Terry Gibson's perm · Aug 25, 2016

stupot07 said:
inject equity, not gift the money.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ok ta

To me it just doesn't matter if we owe them 80 or 90 million they are never ever going to get it back. Investments like shares can go down as well as up the investors need to suck it up the money has gone.

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
What OSB58 said.

But where are they going to get it back from?

Nick · Aug 25, 2016

chiefdave said:
Wasn't someone, think it might have been Rossborough, interviewed on CWR and said that he was approached by the current owner of Wasps before he'd even taken over about them moving to Coventry.

And mentioned in court

chiefdave · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Still waiting for that link Nick:yawn:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/news-opinion/red-button-wasps-been-buzzing-7892050

Coventry Telegraph said:
The news that Wasps were buzzing round the Ricoh as a new home may been a thunderbolt to Cov rugby fans, but maybe not a total surprise to club president Peter Rossborough.

In a recent in an interview with Stuart Linnell on BBC Coventry & Warwickshire, Rossborough said that two years ago, he met Wasps owner Derek Richardson and discussed, very generally, how the two clubs might work together and the word “merger” was mentioned, albeit informally.

It came to nothing at the time but it adds another facet to the current most widely held views about Wasps moving in.

One, that the Ricoh is way down the choice list for Wasps who would lose their fan base by coming to Coventry.

The club’s roots are in London, although they currently play at High Wycombe, and supporters want a return in or around the capital.

Two, the arrival of Wasps would see a defection of Cov fans preferring to watch one of the game’s Premier League giants at a modern stadium rather than League One rugby at the Butts.

The third option, some sort of merger, does have one flaw of course; it could alienate both sets of fans and lead to an empty Ricoh and Butts stadiums.

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
The only way they will get it back is if they have a (very ) successful team. So there is no logic to any argument that says they are deliberately running it down
As to the Administration they took a very common route that I suspect OSB has employed at some point
SISU have said they will not call on their debt under normal circumstances. It is therefore tantamount to fixed capital but used in a tactical way to stop predators ( which includes some forms of wasp )

The big sentence right there mate [/QUOTE]

The even bigger sentence is The only way they will get it back is if they have a (very ) successful team. So there is no logic to any argument that says they are deliberately running it down

oldfiver · Aug 25, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Still waiting for that link Nick:yawn:

I think the words from the WASPs leader is sufficient proof

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/sports/rugby/wasps-move-to-new-home-in-coventry.html?_r=0

Sky Blue Kid · Aug 25, 2016

When Coventry RFC president Peter Rossborough admitted to the Coventry Telegraph that Richardson had approached him in 2012 – prior to Richardson acquiring Wasps - See more at: http://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/wasps-historic-2014-15-season/12971.htm#sthash.9cU7xGfB.dpuf

Richardson approached Rossborough before he bought Wasps.. He didn't approach CCC or ACL or any Ricoh partners.

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