Stomach turning (1 Viewer)

duffer · Jul 23, 2018

Nick said:
How bad are the conditions compared to years of plastic surgery, a lifetime of disfigurement and excruciating pain for a child?

Pretty sure they can go 2 up in a cell only designed for 1 person, wait a few hours to be booked in or miss out on their exercise / association for a day.

How hard do you think Tommy Robinson is having it inside?

Much as I despise Tommy Robinson, I'm sure he's not having a great time in there. He's broken the law and he's paying the price, that's all that I ask. I don't need him to be beaten, raped or terrified, but that seems to be the kind of prison that you'd want, at least for the people that you don't like. I've got kids mate, do you think that I like these blokes any more than you?

So what do you want Nick, an eye for an eye? And again, read the report Nick, this isn't about a bit of overcrowding, you're seriously underplaying it here if you think that's all it is. The "prison is easy" line really doesn't stand up to much analysis when you look at the reality of it.

Nick · Jul 23, 2018

duffer said:
Much as I despise Tommy Robinson, I'm sure he's not having a great time in there. He's broken the law and he's paying the price, that's all that I ask. I don't need him to be beaten, raped or terrified, but that seems to be the kind of prison that you'd want, at least for the people that you don't like. I've got kids mate, do you think that I like these blokes any more than you?

So what do you want Nick, an eye for an eye? And again, read the report Nick, this isn't about a bit of overcrowding, you're seriously underplaying it here if you think that's all it is. The "prison is easy" line really doesn't stand up to much analysis when you look at the reality of it.

Don't you think he would be living separately on his own and getting special treatment? Could the prison service risk throwing him in a cell with a gang of muslims and letting him fend for himself? I have no sympathy for him either but that's one for another thread, it's not quite as the level of how bad this crime is (in my opinion).

I'm not saying I want it for every prisoner, just for crimes like this. I'd quite happily have an eye for an eye on this occassion. If they found him and were 100% it was him then I'd lose no sleep at all if they dunked his head in a bucket of acid for a couple of minutes.

skybluegod · Jul 23, 2018

Nick said:
How would I deal with it if it was my child? I'd make sure his life was hell inside if he made it that far, amazing what the smackheads do for a bag of spice. I'd make sure every prison he went to there would be a price on his head to do as much damage as physically possible to him. I'd have no qualms in doing it myself if I got the chance.

Throwing acid in kid's faces doesn't belong in any age either and people like that don't know anything else if they have the capability to do that.

The softly softly must not be nasty to them and make them better people approach doesn't work. We aren't talking about somebody who got pissed up and had a fight and they fell funny and the other person was injured or a petty criminal, this is somebody who targetted a 3 year old with acid.

Which bit do you want evidence about? Running gangs, ordering hits or linking up with their mates?

Can't be naive enough to just say "well if prison was how I wanted it I'd want them to go there" surely?

No nice speech.
How would you deal with as a politician.

So what jeez that’s the first lesson you learn as a kid. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Really because if you had ever examined psychology, punishment in these cases have a lower chance of success. Compared to rehabilitation and education.
that people do acid attacks to meet up with mates in prison?

It’s not how I want it. It’s how it’s supposed to be.

skybluetony176 · Jul 23, 2018

Nick said:
Don't you think he would be living separately on his own and getting special treatment? Could the prison service risk throwing him in a cell with a gang of muslims and letting him fend for himself? I have no sympathy for him either but that's one for another thread, it's not quite as the level of how bad this crime is (in my opinion).

I'm not saying I want it for every prisoner, just for crimes like this. I'd quite happily have an eye for an eye on this occassion. If they found him and were 100% it was him then I'd lose no sleep at all if they dunked his head in a bucket of acid for a couple of minutes.

Sure I read somewhere he’s in solitary. Boredom will be his biggest enemy.

Nick · Jul 23, 2018

skybluegod said:
No nice speech.
How would you deal with as a politician.

So what jeez that’s the first lesson you learn as a kid. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Really because if you had ever examined psychology, punishment in these cases have a lower chance of success. Compared to rehabilitation and education.
that people do acid attacks to meet up with mates in prison?

It’s not how I want it. It’s how it’s supposed to be.

Yes but it clearly isn't like that is it? In an ideal situation it would be run like clockwork, every prisoner would be attending education and there would be enough staff for everything to run smoothly. (Including dealing with twats taking spice).

I agree with you, if everything was run like that there would be a massive chance of reforming more people and other crimes. I think some crimes are past the line of no return, this one is a perfect example of it.

Of course I learnt that 2 wrongs don't make a right, I also learnt since growing up that life isn't as simple as that.

I didn't say they did acid attacks especially to meet up with mates, I said if they get sent down they will meet up with mates and usually other gang members on the inside if it is gang related. People do commit crimes just to get themselves sent down to take stuff in though.

skybluegod · Jul 23, 2018

Nick said:
Yes but it clearly isn't like that is it? In an ideal situation it would be run like clockwork, every prisoner would be attending education and there would be enough staff for everything to run smoothly. (Including dealing with twats taking spice).

I agree with you, if everything was run like that there would be a massive chance of reforming more people and other crimes. I think some crimes are past the line of no return, this one is a perfect example of it.

Of course I learnt that 2 wrongs don't make a right, I also learnt since growing up that life isn't as simple as that.

I didn't say they did acid attacks especially to meet up with mates, I said if they get sent down they will meet up with mates and usually other gang members on the inside if it is gang related. People do commit crimes just to get themselves sent down to take stuff in though.

I didn’t say it was like that? I’m not saying it is and I have repeated that 5 times.
As you have now agreed it should be like that. And instead of going to the other extremes of rape tortured death penalty. We should be pushing for a bigger injection of cash to get it to the level required.

Surely you have also learnt that rape, assualt and torture aren’t the answer?

So what if they meet up with mates? Solitary confinement would just lead to health issues for everybody?

Grendel · Jul 23, 2018

In the end this is all a discussion on the merits or not of capital punishment.

I used to oppose it in its entirety but not now.

You look at deranged lunatics like Huntley, Rose West, the killers of Ian Rigby and the killer of Joe Cox and you decide if you want these people to go through a natural life cycle or not. In the end it’s not as tree huggers pretend a case of human rights but base economics. It’s cheaper to put them down.

The treatment of Ian Brady was ultimately the game changer for me. I would really like someone to explain the justification at great tax payers expense to preserve this creeps dignity as he aged and decayed when other decent citizens are left to rot in care homes and the real NHS - not a queue free system Brady and co are able to access.

As for the argument that death is no deterrent - it’s absurd as it’s not measurable. If the noose was ready for these acid attack felons and we could see the fear terror and stark reality they faced as their heads went in the noose and the chilling crack as their necks break my suspicion is it might focus a mind or two of some future equally depraved characters.

Nick · Jul 23, 2018

skybluegod said:
I didn’t say it was like that? I’m not saying it is and I have repeated that 5 times.
As you have now agreed it should be like that. And instead of going to the other extremes of rape tortured death penalty. We should be pushing for a bigger injection of cash to get it to the level required.

Surely you have also learnt that rape, assualt and torture aren’t the answer?

So what if they meet up with mates? Solitary confinement would just lead to health issues for everybody?

I'm not talking about torturing people as they are checked in, im talking about the person who has done this and other similar crimes to this extreme.

Sending people like this to prison isn't the answer either unfortunately.

Westendlad · Jul 23, 2018

Not sure if its been mentioned but the police are ruling out any race crime at the moment. Apparently there was a edl march in the town saturday.

Westendlad · Jul 23, 2018

skybluegod said:
Sorry I don’t have a fully coherent plan unsurpsingly...
how do you plan on raping him? Yourself? A friend?

I’m not saying what he did was right? I’m saying he is a disgusting man.
I am simply saying. He doesn’t deserve TO BE RAPED/BEATEN/TORTURED

I totally agree. He/them should be beaten/raped/beaten/raped then tortured.

Otis · Jul 23, 2018

Lawless Britain on in a moment on Channel 5, followed by a live debate with Alastair Stewart at 10, same channel.

Might be worth giving it a whirl.

Nick · Jul 23, 2018

Apparently thought to be a dispute between communities.

eastwoodsdustman · Jul 23, 2018

Nick said:
Apparently thought to be a dispute between communities.

Well that’s ok then. Some sort of gang disputes but involving toddlers.

Macca · Jul 23, 2018

The point that most certainly is being missed is that the perpetrators of this kind of offence do not see it as a crime.

Macca · Jul 23, 2018

Sick Boy said:
That doesn't really have anything to do with refuting claims that it was an 'imported tradition', sadly it's very much homemade.

Most members of the community which you are blaming for it would also find it abhorrent and it's very much a minority of people who believe it to be acceptable.

The community you are blaming is not a recent addition to Britain either.

Never blamed a community, not once

Macca · Jul 23, 2018

Sick Boy said:
That doesn't really have anything to do with refuting claims that it was an 'imported tradition', sadly it's very much homemade.

Most members of the community which you are blaming for it would also find it abhorrent and it's very much a minority of people who believe it to be acceptable.

The community you are blaming is not a recent addition to Britain either.

There is a section of the community that would be condemned as extreme in Karachi. If such extreme behaviour was witnessed in the white British community it would rightly cause uproar. Look at the laughable EDL a bunch of fat racist clowns, you couldn't move for the outrage

Macca · Jul 23, 2018

For the life of me I will never understand how we mock Christianity for worshipping some goblin in the sky but spread our legs for Islam

skybluetony176 · Jul 23, 2018

Macca said:
but spread our legs for Islam

What happens in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom.

Captain Dart · Jul 23, 2018

Well what do you know..

Any sicko here want to excuse honour attacks?

Otis · Jul 24, 2018

Hopefully they are no sickos on here.

And just to balance things, on the Channel 5 thing I mentioned last night, there were so many victims who were Muslim, or Hindu or Sikh and so many of the perpetrators who were British.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Macca said:
For the life of me I will never understand how we mock Christianity for worshipping some goblin in the sky but spread our legs for Islam

who's we?
I think both are ludicrous doctrines but defend peoples right to follow both as long as it's not to the detriment of others. Obviously there are those who cross a line and I'll condemn them as much as the next person.

lifeskyblue · Jul 24, 2018

clint van damme said:
who's we?
I think both are ludicrous doctrines but defend peoples right to follow both as long as it's not to the detriment of others. Obviously there are those who cross a line and I'll condemn them as much as the next person.

I agree Clint. Problem though with the right of people to follow a religion unless detrimental to others is that just by their existence they cause division and conflict.

Of course if religion didn’t exist there would still be politics, family, nationhood and sport to fall out about.

What I just don’t get with religion is how people in 21st Century still believe their religion as if it is the eternal truth rather than look to science for an explanation of the universe and human existence.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Otis · Jul 24, 2018

Otis said:
Hopefully they are no sickos on here.

And just to balance things, on the Channel 5 thing I mentioned last night, there were so many victims who were Muslim, or Hindu or Sikh and so many of the perpetrators who were British.

In this programme last night, visually you clearly could see many ethnic minorities were victims from the footage shown and also many were seen helping victims that had just been attacked.

And the totally innocent victims who were actually named and covered in more detail-

Omar Majan - attacked by a moped gang

Alasdair (no last name given, but a white British guy)- attacked by a gang of kids, some as young as 10 and stabbed.

Ann Warner - 90 year old beaten up in her own home

Catherine Smith - 82 year old beaten up in her own home.

Abdul Samad - stabbed to death by a moped gang

Lauric Lebato (from Ivory Coast) - stabbed to death in the street

Raj Sandhu - Robbed and attacked in his own shop.

Afiya Begum - Acid thrown in her face (possible hate crime)

Jabed Hussain - Acid thrown in his face.

Grendel · Jul 24, 2018

Macca said:
For the life of me I will never understand how we mock Christianity for worshipping some goblin in the sky but spread our legs for Islam

Exactly. It’s fear of being deemed racist so knock the easy religion for a giggle instead.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 24, 2018

Grendel said:
Exactly. It’s fear of being deemed racist so knock the easy religion for a giggle instead.

There's a big difference between mocking a religion and using it as an easy and lazy tag in order to make a racist political point. The 'fear of being called racist' is sometimes genuine, and sometimes used by, well... racists in order to stop racist behaviour being called as such.

Note, for clarity, this is a general point and not applied to either you or Macca, neither of whom I think (so far ) have shown hints of racism.

Notwithstanding the above, I suspect you'll find most people with no religious beliefs will find them all equally farcical at heart...

ccfchoi87 · Jul 24, 2018

I find it worrying that people preaching about mental health will call people they don't know a 'moron' because they have a different opinion. It's the same with the girl on Love island who just took her own life. One minute people are saying how bad mental health is and spreading awareness, next thing they're tweeting about how another contestant is a slag.

Nick · Jul 24, 2018

The dad has been arrested...

Another woman in Brum has been attacked with acid.

tommydazzle · Jul 24, 2018

clint van damme said:
who's we?
I think both are ludicrous doctrines but defend peoples right to follow both as long as it's not to the detriment of others. Obviously there are those who cross a line and I'll condemn them as much as the next person.

To the detriment of others is an interesting one as we could argue that mutilating the sexual organ of a male infant might be detrimental, poisoning young minds with nonsense and denying them access to other points of view might be detrimental. Religion gets special dispensation to label children into a closed category. I can never imagine a situation where a child couldn't be adopted because he was a liberal democrat child and the family were labour. That would just be absurd.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Nick said:
The dad has been arrested...

Another woman in Brum has been attacked with acid.

Does this mean the dad attaked his own child or did he do something which caused the attack in revenge which the police have got wind of during their investigation?

Nick · Jul 24, 2018

clint van damme said:
Does this mean the dad attaked his own child or did he do something which caused the attack in revenge which the police have got wind of during their investigation?

No the dad was arrested in connection with the attack on his kid.

Ashdown · Jul 24, 2018

ccfchoi87 said:
I find it worrying that people preaching about mental health will call people they don't know a 'moron' because they have a different opinion. It's the same with the girl on Love island who just took her own life. One minute people are saying how bad mental health is and spreading awareness, next thing they're tweeting about how another contestant is a slag.

Err I think Clint, this post you liked was aimed at SBG calling me a moron but still.......it's all about opinions.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Ashdown said:
Err I think Clint, this post you liked was aimed at SBG calling me a moron but still.......it's all about opinions.

I may have liked a post where someone called you a moron but ccfchoi87 makes a valid point and if his criticism includes me then so be, I still think he makes a valid point.
Perhaps Ill informed rancid bigot would have been a better way to describe you.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Nick said:
No the dad was arrested in connection with the attack on his kid.

Jeez- just when you thought this story couldn't get worse.

Ashdown · Jul 24, 2018

clint van damme said:
I may have liked a post where someone called you a moron but ccfchoi87 makes a valid point and if his criticism includes me then so be, I still think he makes a valid point.
Perhaps Ill informed rancid bigot would have been a better way to describe you.

You just can't abide an alternative opion. Typical keyboard coward.

clint van damme · Jul 24, 2018

Ashdown said:
You just can't abide an alternative opion. Typical keyboard coward.

The perpetrators are gypsys. Before you had any inkling of who carried out the attacks you were ranting on about mosques. That's nothing to do with an alternative opinion that's I'll informed nonsense.
Though I'm not surprised the penny hasn't dropped with you yet.

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